if you were my dh, where would you hide financial information?

[Longdistance]

Hey. I'm at my end of my tether here with dh, and his selfishness, and obsession with money.Justsome background. We moved to Oz lastyear, all because he wanted to improve his career prospects within his company.
Anyway, since being here, I've been very unhappy. A majority of it is caused by him being a right arsehole. Example, he set up a housekeeping account, and the money would run out quick, as had two in nappies at the time, and one on ff (which is expensive here). He then kept questioning me as to why there was no money left (because he hadn't given me enough each month).
So, he was leading me to believe that we were struggling.
Anyway, I found out recently after going back to the UK, after opening some of his post, that he has around 8k in shares that he has not told me about
So, I questioned him on it, and he was all sheepish about it. Now, the paperwork has disappeared in a puff of smoke, and I want answers from him.
So, if you were my said d h, where would you hide this information?
There's lots more to my story, but feel like I'm waffling.

Is your name on the mortgage account?

If it is just telephone the banks, tell them you have lost account numbers etc and ask them to send you details, addressed to you.

X posted mama!

I have asked oin several occassions about the accounts for the house back in the Uk. He says, trhe paperwork is somewhere blah, blah.
The house is in joint names, as it was his first, but I sold mine at a healthy profit in 2007, and invested in his. I made him put my name onthe deeds first, before I invested the lump sum.
I have many an issue with him, another being giving up my job to move here, and being a sahm (yawn). I had my job for nearly 15 years, so was a real hard decision.
He has pushed, and pushed a lot onto me by ways of taking advantage of my good nature, as I'm quite laid back.
We need to move from our rental, as the owners are selling it. I refuse to sell our house in the Uk. So, we need to look for somewhere else. I want to stay in this area, but he wants to move towards the city. My sil lives about 20 minutes from us, and is really my only confidant whilst here. Also, dd1 is in the local day care, which she loves, so don't want to move house, and day care, it's all too much
I think he views Oz as long term, whereas I don't as our visa's are only 4 years (457 business visa).
Which I think is going to upset the apple cart.
He already knows I'm not keen to stay!

Well if it is joint names, phone the morgage company today and ask them for statements etc.

Do not move away form the area you are in, put your foot down.

I couldn't stay married to someone I didn't trust, who didn't care about my wellbeing. From the heading, I thought this was about a couple in the process of separating, one of whom was hiding assets. That he would treat you like this, now, after you've given up your job and gone to the other side of the world for him - wow. Just wow.

When my ex went bankrupt (which I knew nothing about at the time), he used to hide all his paperwork ontop of the kitchen cupboards......which I found after we had sold our house and I was clearing the kitchen!

'The paperwork is somewhere blah blah.'

You are giving up too easily when he fobs you off.

He fobs you off because he knows you give up too easily.

Get hold of that paperwork, regardless. Statements are monthly, it can be that difficult.

I asked him, and this is probably the 6th time. I'm getting fed up now with it all. And an ultimatum it will be.
We were back in the Uk last week. When he'd phone/skype, he was actually shitting himself that I wasn't coming back with the kids which was tempting. He was so positive about what was gonna happen when I got back, and quite frankly, none of it has been delivered.
My only collateral at the minute is the brand new X-trail we bought. Luckily it's in my name. I'm not an idiot on that front, but an idiot to think I could trust him.
He's had far too much control so far.
Time to take it back!

Mine is hiding our paperwork in his sports bag and under the carpet in a little compartment in the boot of his car (to which I have no access). I have great sympathy for you Op - my partner of 25 years has been doing the same to me (moved to another country, gave up job, feel isolated, financial concealment and no money being transferred to me for essentials). I have told him we can't have a relationship and have those sort of secrets - he agreed and so has started being much nicer but has still (2 weeks later)has not produced the actual documents.

I know that he could change the accounts straight after he shows me - but it's a matter of trust and faith

As I am a sahm I thought I could intercept the mail - but I think he is having the paperwork sent elsewhere or has moved main bank accounts and trading accounts online (for which I have no password). It is truly horrible and all about control. I really think he is forcing me to use up my savings on essentials and leaving me isolated so that i can't leave with the DC - but that is where it is heading.

Good luck - would he see a counsellor so that you can discuss the reasons he is unwilling to share and give full disclosure?

What an awful way to live. I can't imagine how frustrating it must be to be in that position.

I hope you get some answers OP.

Yes, it is.

From my own relationship with someone who was secretive, a liar and manipulative for years (who I am still with), I can tell you this for sure-

nagging will get you nowhere

every long argument is worth extending even longer to the liar or manipulator, it is worth it to him/her, as they have something to lose- so they will always wear you down first

Your h knows you very well- he lives with you- so knows how to get round you.

So change your style. Stop arguing, set consequences.

eg If you dont find that information in 48 hours, I will start proceedings to separate my finances from you completely, starting the following day.

And you must mean it.

Janes, why would you stay? Seriously? Same question to you, OP.

And for both of you, if you do decide to leave and want to come back to the UK, don't let too much time tick away. You don't want to fall foul of the Hague Treaty, which says that children should generally remain in their country of habitual residence (it can be challenged in court, but that's the presumption). Stay too long, and there might be legal difficulties in coming back.

would he see a counsellor so that you can discuss the reasons he is unwilling to share and give full disclosure?

Whatever the reasons for his secrecy, it's got to stop first. You might tell him you are willing to do joint counselling if he wants to talk about his unreasonable behaviour with a view to changing his outlook, but only after you have the access you are entitled to.

As another poster said, it's a question of trust. If there's no trust, how can the marriage survivive?

I would tell him he has to produce all paperwork, including bank statements and mortgage details - you can look on line if he doesn't have paper copies and just needs to log in. He has to do that today. Alternatively, you will book tickets to UK and take the DCs, start divorce proceedings and he must understand judges get rather pissed off with husbands who hide assets.

That £700 a month needs to go into your family bank account. If at the end of each month there is money left over, then some of it can go into over paying on the mortgage.

I would also suggest if he can't be trusted with money, you have his wage paid into the bills account and a set amount goes back out each month to each of you for 'fun' money - if he buys shares with his, that's his business, but he doesn't do it with family money without discussion with you first.

actually, I'd just go back to the UK, and tell him if he wants you to come back he needs to adjust his attitude.

I think you need to see a family law solicitor to find out your position esp re: children on separating.

Stop nagging and asking for the paperwork.

Tell him he has til the weekend to produce the papers AND passwords to all online accounts or the marriage is over (sounds like its not much of one anyway).

Do not get into arguments and stay calm and detached.

Remember this is FAMILY money and you need to protect the DC. Even if he earned most of it, remember that without you as his housekeeper, cook, nanny etc he would not have earned all that money.

probably at work, which isn't helpful, is it!

Is your name on the mortgage? Is the house in both your names?

I couldn't live with or marry a man who wasn't completely open about money and where we shared all money and financial decisions.
No man would ever give me housekeeping money. I'd want all accounts joint and to see all bank statements. To me that's normal.

Well OP if you decide to get on a plane and come back here you might find this useful:

Relationship Breakdown and Divorce ? Advice and Links

General

Try to get familiar with the language of family law and procedure and get an understanding of your rights BEFORE you see a solicitor.

If there are children involved, their interests will always come first. It is the children?s right to maintain a meaningful relationship with the non-resident parent (NRP) ? not the other way around. Parents have no rights, only responsibilities. Shared residence means both parties having an equal interest in the upbringing of the children. It doesn?t mean equal (50/50) parenting/contact time - children are not possessions to be ?fairly? divided between separating parents.

A divorce will not be granted where children are involved unless there are agreed arrangements for finance, and care of the children (?Statement of Arrangements for Children?). It is obviously quicker and cheaper if this can be agreed but if there is no agreement, the Court will make an Order (?Residence and Contact? (which is likely to be called a Child Arrangements Order in future) regarding children, ?Financial Order? or ?Ancillary Relief? in the case of Finance). Information and links to these can be found in the Directgov link below.

Always see a specialist family lawyer!

Get word of mouth recommendations for family lawyers in your area if possible. If you have children at school, ask mums you are friendly with if they know of anyone who can make a recommendation in your area. These days there are few people who don?t know of anyone who has been through a divorce or separation ? there?s a lot of knowledge and support out there!

Many family lawyers will offer the first half hour consultation free. Make use of this. Don?t just stick with the first lawyer you find ? shop around and find someone you feel comfortable with. You may be in for a long haul, so it helps if you can find a solicitor you?re happy with.

If you can?t find any local recommendations, always see a solicitor who specialises in Family Law. You can search by area here:

www.resolution.org.uk/

You can also read good advice and find a family lawyer here:

www.divorceaid.co.uk/

Some family law solicitors publish online feedback from clients ? Google solicitors to see if you can find any recommendations or feedback.

Mediation

You will be encouraged to attend mediation. This can help by encouraging discussion about arrangements for children and finance in a structured way in a neutral setting. However, it only works if both parties are willing to reach agreement.

If there has been violence or emotional abuse, discuss this with your solicitor first. Always get legal advice, or at the very least make sure you are aware of your legal rights, before you begin mediation. This is important because while a Mediator should have knowledge of family law, and will often explain family law, they are not there to give tailored legal advice to either party - so it?s important to have that first.

Married or Living Together?

This is a key question, because if you are married, generally speaking you have greater protection when a relationship breaks down.

Legal Issues around marriage/cohabitation and relationship breakdown are explained here:

www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/relationships_e/relationships_living_together_marriage_and_civil_partnership_e/living_together_and_marriage_legal_differences.htm#Ending_a_relationship

www.advicenow.org.uk/living-together/

DirectGov advice on divorce, separation and relationship breakdown:

www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Divorceseparationandrelationshipbreakdown/index.htm

Legal Rights are further explained here:

www.rightsofwomen.org.uk/legal.php#children_relationship_breakdown

I found these guides from law firms quite informative and easy to read ? there are others of course:

www.family-lawfirm.co.uk/uploaded/documents/Surviving-Family-Conflict-and-Divorce---2nd-edition.pdf

www.terry.co.uk/hindex.html

Finance

Before you see a family law solicitor, get hold of every single piece of financial information you have access to, and take copies or make notes. Wage slips, P60s, tax returns, employment contracts, pensions and other statements ? savings, current account and mortgages, deeds, rental leases, utility bills, council tax bills, credit statements. Are there joint assets such as a home, pensions, savings, shares?

If you have no access to financial information, or you are aware that assets are being hidden from you, then obviously you will not be able to reach agreement on finances. If there are children, as you cannot divorce without adequate arrangements being agreed on finance and children, you will have to apply for a financial order anyway. If there are no children, and you are unable to agree on finances, you will also have to apply for a financial order (follow the Direct.gov links below). This seeks financial information from both parties going back 12 months. So it is in your interests to act quickly once you have made the decision to divorce.

If you are married, the main considerations of the Family Courts where parties are unable to agree a settlement are (in no particular order of priority):

1.The welfare of any minor children from the marriage.
2.The value of jointly and individually owned property and other assets and the financial needs, obligation and responsibilities of each party.
3.Any debts or liabilities of the parties.
4.Pension arrangements for each of the parties, including future pension values and any value to each of the parties of any benefit they may lose as a result of the divorce.
5.The earnings and earning potential of each of the parties.
6.Standard of living enjoyed during the marriage.
7.The age of the parties and duration of the marriage.
8.Any physical or mental disability of either of the parties.
9.Contributions that each party may have made to the marriage, either financially or by looking after the house and/or caring for the family.

CSA maintenance calculator:

www.csacalculator.dsdni.gov.uk/calc.asp

Handy tax credits calculator:

www.hmrc.gov.uk/taxcredits/payments-entitlement/entitlement/question-how-much.htm#7

Handy 5 Minute benefit check, tax and housing benefit calculators:

www.moneysavingexpert.com/family/

Parenting issues:
www.theparentconnection.org.uk

Support for women

www.maypole.org.uk/
www.womensaid.org.uk/
www.gingerbread.org.uk/

Housing
www.england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/families_and_relationships/relationship_breakdown

(Bear in mind that if you are not in England there is usually an appropriate link on these websites. There are significant differences in Scottish law and housing provision).

Ask to see online banking - no paperwork. If his only income is salary everything will come into and out of the account. You will see where the money is going and what amounts.

Thanks Olgaga. That was mega useful to me.
Yes, I own half the house back home as pp about me investing in it, after I sold my house, and moved into his.

Sorry I've been away. We're 7 hours ahead, and been to view a rental, cook dinner, babes to bed, and washed up.
He's produced a statement with what looks like, he has been paying into the mortgage. So that bit is true. I don't see how he managed to buy those shares, with what money.
My guess is the household money.
I'm just about to ask demand that my name is put on his account, so the housekeeping account can close.
Wish me luck!

Good luck!

Remember he has no legitimate reason for wanting to keep this information from you. You have to be able to trust each other - or the marriage is doomed.

I'd just add, if you were thinking of divorce (if things get that bad) come back to the UK with the DCs first. You do not want to start a divorce in Oz, where he can insist the DCs stay for access and hold you there. Leave first, as quickly as possible once you have made the decision.