Not being able to have the Big Conversation - EAH and Leaving

[Smashedpotato]

Long time lurker here, always a bit risky to post (H controlling and nosy) so have been looking and learning and also help via local WA. This has been great - have had counselling which I got a lot from. Support workers have varied in attitudes and safety plans but am at the point where I may be able to - yes - leave the bastard soon. Have one DS (6).
Will have to go to refuge as there's nowhere else to go - hopefully not to far but out of local area (leaving area makes me sad, really, when there are friends here - but there we go).
Have put up with Emotional Abuse and finance abuse for years. Too long. In a horrible nutshell: he has snubbed friends, family, put me down, withheld money and generally been a narcissistic arse. Can put details but I am worried I will be outed. All came as quite a revelation when i realised but am really seeing the damage that's being done - to me and DS.
However, I am aware that he won't move out - I and DS have to go. I also can't raise any issues without being called 'mental' or 'paranoid'. If he thinks we're off then he will not let us leave the house. I feel dreadful for 'doing a Katie' while he's out but it seems the only option - with short, sharp note left on kitchen table. I am worried this 'blindsiding' will have repercussions (due to contact via our child, and between H and DS himself) for years. Anyone have any experience? Any 'key words' i can throw around about being DEEPLY MISERABLE without him blaming me and turning it round? So he can see it...? Please note: H is not violent but aggressive-acting and verbally abusive - of yes, and will threaten violence on rare occasions. And he won't take this sitting down - it will all be my fault and I will have ruined his life etc.
PS I will be in and out of thread as I will have to conceal this etc etc.

The bad news is, if you're looking for a form of words your soon-to-be-ex will be unable to throw back at you, there ain't no such thing. The key lies in his own belief that you exist for his benefit. You will never be able to prove otherwise. This is just one of those times when you have to accept that someone is going to blame you, but it is NOT YOUR FAULT whatever they say/believe, so just do what you have to do regardless. Take care, and don't assume that because he hasn't been violent before he won't start now.

Thanks Annie, what you say is true, I just need perspective. Having thought long and hard about this, over years actually, I know Reason is not going to play a part in this. If I express any negative emotion it is disregarded, or I am told off for being 'grumpy'. We had a bad, bad argument two years ago where he threatened everything and yes - if he felt he was justified - which i know he could - he might get physical. At that point (2 yrs ago) I was still eager to please and 'solve' the dispute. I now come to the conclusion issues cannot be 'solved' - I capitulate or else. He tells me quite proudly he 'does what he wants' and 'women just want to change men'. When all he did was want to change me.

Women's aid are best placed to advise you in how to get out, and what to expect afterwards - if you're in touch with them, and even if you're not (for anyone else reading) - ring or email them.

I hope others here will be able to share some of their experiences too.

I don't think it matters what you say in any note you leave. In my opinion it should be brief, factual, and completely uninformative.

By all means state your unhappiness as a simple, unembellished fact..... But there are no words that will help him understand. He won't. Whatever you say, he will consider you are to blame, you are wrong, crazy, etc....because he isn't mentally equipped to see or value your point of view. That is, at heart, the reason he is how he is.

PS!.... Good luck, and I hope you get out soon....

Thanks too lady, please anyone with more experiences come and join in.

Good luck, op

You are doing the right thing, but please be careful and mindful of the fact that it simply isn't in his makeup to understand your pov

Yes, thanks - plans are afoot, I feel guilty as hell but I am being super careful. A have some good friends in RL but have found MN good for perspective in other ways... I had Lundy's Bible but had to send to a friend to keep for safety - I presume it suggests the 'Katie Holmes Method' in there...?

Park the guilt love, it is erroneous

Thanks AnyFucker your wisdom sound as ever.

The very best of luck OP.
I agree with the others in that there is no set of words that are going to make him click, whether they be spoken or written down. His sense of entitlement is inflated in comparison to your own. There's really nowhere you can go with that. Sorry to say.

Again, good to hear. My mum thinks we can simply go to the pub on a rare night out and 'talk' - but then so did one support worker and she told me that H would 'hate me forever' for what I was planning to do. Double mindfuck.

I was in your position. I didn't even leave a note. It didn't occur to me, but I'm not sure what there is to say. As Annie says, there is no magic wording that is going to make him understand your position. He'll be a horrible ex. But better a horrible ex than a horrible partner.

Good luck. I know what you mean about the guilt. I absolutely longed to give me DD a happy, stable family background. This is a tough thing to do. But ultimately, it's the only thing you can do. Hugs to you.

Ta, nickname - If I don't leave a note he'll call police etc. I once went to a neighbours with DS and stayed 15 mins (if that) chatting - got back home and he was hopping mad because he didn't know where we were. I'f I'm more than 10 mins late he's calling on phone. Doesn't stop but yes - a horrible ExH is preferable to a horrible H. Thanks all this is really helping me clarify situation.

What ever you say or do he will twist it and use it against you. You do not owe him anything, a simple message saying you have left is more than enough imo. Any details in a note will be used against you, you don't need that. Womens Aid would, I'm sure have the correct advice, just do whatever is best for you and DS. Freedom starts soon op, good luck.

Mine has called the police on me before (eg. the phone was recharging downstairs and I didn't hear him trying to call me). It's fine, they just call you and you tell them what's happening. It might actually be quite a good phone call to have. And it gives you slightly more escape time if you don't leave the note. You should be spending your final minutes there making sure you're taking the stuff you need, not agonizing over wording. And it's not a good idea to write out any drafts in advance!

DON''T leave a note because if he can't use the wording against you, he'll destroy it, claim you'd left no word of your whereabouts, and call the police anyway.

You're best advised to wait until you are in a refuge and ask the staff to let your local police station know that you're safe so that they dont waste time mounting a search for you and dd

Before you uproot yourself and your dd, have you consulted solicitor who specialises in divorce and family law, and have yougiven consideration to obtaining an Occupation order which will require him to leave the marital home?

Definitely get yourself to a place of safety. His control of your freedom and finances are abusive. The support worker was right - he will hate you forever - but by the sound of it he will anyway, however you do it. If it's any consolation, you read posts on here all the time from women whose ex husbands clearly despise them and blame them for everything, even when it's the husband who has left!

The note you leave doesn't have to say anything other than the fact that you have left because you can no longer live this way any longer, you and your DS are safe, and he will hear about a divorce in due course through a solicitor.

Don't forget you will need to change your phone number, email etc. to avoid unwanted contact from him - and be very careful about who you inform as to your whereabouts.

You might find this useful:

Relationship Breakdown and Divorce ? Advice and Links

General

Try to get familiar with the language of family law and procedure and get an understanding of your rights BEFORE you see a solicitor.

If there are children involved, their interests will always come first. It is the children?s right to maintain a meaningful relationship with the non-resident parent (NRP) ? not the other way around. Parents have no rights, only responsibilities. Shared residence means both parties having an equal interest in the upbringing of the children. It doesn?t mean equal (50/50) parenting/contact time - children are not possessions to be ?fairly? divided between separating parents.

A divorce will not be granted where children are involved unless there are agreed arrangements for finance, and care of the children (?Statement of Arrangements for Children?). It is obviously quicker and cheaper if this can be agreed but if there is no agreement, the Court will make an Order (?Residence and Contact? regarding children, ?Financial Order? or ?Ancillary Relief? in the case of Finance),

Always see a specialist family lawyer!

Get word of mouth recommendations for family lawyers in your area if possible. If you have children at school, ask mums you are friendly with if they know of anyone who can make a recommendation in your area. These days there are few people who don?t know of anyone who has been through a divorce or separation ? there?s a lot of knowledge and support out there!

Many family lawyers will offer the first half hour consultation free. Make use of this. Don?t just stick with the first lawyer you find ? shop around and find someone you feel comfortable with. You may be in for a long haul, so it helps if you can find a solicitor you?re happy with.

If you can?t find any local recommendations, always see a solicitor who specialises in Family Law. You can search by area here:

www.resolution.org.uk/

Some family law solicitors publish online feedback from clients ? Google solicitors to see if you can find any recommendations or feedback.

Mediation

You will be encouraged to attend mediation. If there has been violence or emotional abuse, discuss this with your solicitor first. Always get legal advice, or at the very least make sure you are aware of your legal rights, before you begin mediation. A Mediator can help you to have a structured discussion in a neutral setting and help you reach agreement. They should have knowledge of family law but are not there to give legal advice.

Married or Living Together?

This is a key question, because if you are married, generally speaking you have greater protection when a relationship breaks down.

Legal Issues around marriage/cohabitation and relationship breakdown are explained here:

www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/relationships_e/relationships_living_together_marriage_and_civil_partnership_e/living_together_and_marriage_legal_differences.htm#Ending_a_relationship

www.advicenow.org.uk/living-together/

DirectGov advice on divorce, separation and relationship breakdown:

www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Divorceseparationandrelationshipbreakdown/index.htm

Legal Rights are further explained here:

www.rightsofwomen.org.uk/legal.php#children_relationship_breakdown

I found these guides from law firms quite informative and easy to read ? there are others of course:

www.family-lawfirm.co.uk/uploaded/documents/Surviving-Family-Conflict-and-Divorce---2nd-edition.pdf

www.terry.co.uk/hindex.html

Finance

Before you see a family law solicitor, get hold of every single piece of financial information you have access to, and take copies or make notes. Wage slips, P60s, tax returns, employment contracts, pensions and other statements ? savings, current account and mortgages, deeds, rental leases, utility bills, council tax bills, credit statements. Are there joint assets such as a home, pensions, savings, shares?

If you are married, the main considerations of the Family Courts where parties are unable to agree a settlement are (in no particular order of priority):

1.The welfare of any minor children from the marriage.
2.The value of jointly and individually owned property and other assets and the financial needs, obligation and responsibilities of each party.
3.Any debts or liabilities of the parties.
4.Pension arrangements for each of the parties, including future pension values and any value to each of the parties of any benefit they may lose as a result of the divorce.
5.The earnings and earning potential of each of the parties.
6.Standard of living enjoyed during the marriage.
7.The age of the parties and duration of the marriage.
8.Any physical or mental disability of either of the parties.
9.Contributions that each party may have made to the marriage, either financially or by looking after the house and/or caring for the family.

CSA maintenance calculator:

www.csacalculator.dsdni.gov.uk/calc.asp

Handy tax credits calculator:

taxcredits.hmrc.gov.uk/Qualify/DIQHousehold.aspx

Handy 5 Minute benefit check, tax and housing benefit calculators:

www.moneysavingexpert.com/family/

Parenting issues:

theparentconnection.org.uk/

Support for women

www.maypole.org.uk/
www.womensaid.org.uk/
www.gingerbread.org.uk/

Housing

england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/families_and_relationships

(Bear in mind that if you are not in England there is usually an appropriate link on these websites. There are significant differences in Scottish law and housing provision).

Thanks olgaga, useful links - will look into it more later. Have seen lawyer who seemed OK, and in firm which deals with DV/EA so suggested a "fair" approach to proceedings to minimise aggro from H, who will try to play dirty. I told her about finances - mine and his - and some history and she seemed to understand. Am in England and married (for over ten years) and while he sees our finances as separate he will get a big shock when he realises that the law sees it as split jointly. Esp. my personal debt, which I was told in law he had 50% resp. for. It's going to be hideous! But better now than in a few year's time when I foresee if I stay I will have crumbled into a mire of despair.

I think you can let the local police know that you are leaving an abusive man so that when he calls they will just tell him that you are safe and he is not to contact you.

Ive just left twice in the way that you are planning to do. Cant post much now as am on my way out but just wanted to say that it doesnt matter if he calls the police. They will call you to do what they term a "Welfare Check". You state that you have fled DV and are in/heading to a refuge. They will then say thank you, hang up, call Twatface back and merely say "smashed is safe and well. She doesnt want contact from you. we would advise you to seek legal advice" - thats it. happened repeatedly when I left and in the end they threatened to knab him for wasting police time.

Also once you're safe and into the refuge the police can remove him from the property and escort you in to allow you to collect any belongings you have forgotten. They have done this for me twice and were lovely and really supportive. So dont worry if you think you might bottle it and end up just fleeing there and then without all the bits you need - you can always go back and get things.

Dont bother with a note. The best kick in the teeth I achieved was leaving the flat in a mess and a picture of DD on his desk. That was all i needed to say.

Good luck. He sounds like my STBXH.

It is almost 3 years ago since we had that 'Big Conversation', and the next day he acted as if it had never ever taken place :(

It has been like trying to get out of quicksand, so I stopped struggling and got a solicitor to pull me out :)

Keep us updated.

Well done Smashed, you're definitely doing the right thing. It's just not possible, to take a "fair" approach with someone like this. I don't think much of the advice you've had! You have to put safety and welfare first, especially when children are involved.

Thanks again, the police link - coming back to get stuff sounds good. Has been suggested but not heard of anyone doing it in practise. Have thought about occupation order but a) he'd make life hell if he knew we lived here still b) neither of us can afford house singly so we will have to sell up. These money things will drive him mad, and paying for solicitor, more than the splitting up I suggest. Nice man, eh.

twinkle and sodesperate good to get your experience. sorry not to reply in more length, will later... and of course keep posted on what actually happens and when.

Twinkle, it makes me so sad to see how much wisdom you have gained over the last year or so