Not being able to have the Big Conversation - EAH and Leaving

[Smashedpotato]

Long time lurker here, always a bit risky to post (H controlling and nosy) so have been looking and learning and also help via local WA. This has been great - have had counselling which I got a lot from. Support workers have varied in attitudes and safety plans but am at the point where I may be able to - yes - leave the bastard soon. Have one DS (6).
Will have to go to refuge as there's nowhere else to go - hopefully not to far but out of local area (leaving area makes me sad, really, when there are friends here - but there we go).
Have put up with Emotional Abuse and finance abuse for years. Too long. In a horrible nutshell: he has snubbed friends, family, put me down, withheld money and generally been a narcissistic arse. Can put details but I am worried I will be outed. All came as quite a revelation when i realised but am really seeing the damage that's being done - to me and DS.
However, I am aware that he won't move out - I and DS have to go. I also can't raise any issues without being called 'mental' or 'paranoid'. If he thinks we're off then he will not let us leave the house. I feel dreadful for 'doing a Katie' while he's out but it seems the only option - with short, sharp note left on kitchen table. I am worried this 'blindsiding' will have repercussions (due to contact via our child, and between H and DS himself) for years. Anyone have any experience? Any 'key words' i can throw around about being DEEPLY MISERABLE without him blaming me and turning it round? So he can see it...? Please note: H is not violent but aggressive-acting and verbally abusive - of yes, and will threaten violence on rare occasions. And he won't take this sitting down - it will all be my fault and I will have ruined his life etc.
PS I will be in and out of thread as I will have to conceal this etc etc.

AF I know. Can I be cheeky and PM you? not one of my usual arselicking ones either

Of course but I am only on my phone and not able to type much (my wifi) has gone kaput

Does that explain why you've been lying low? I thought when i came back to MN and couldn't see you posting that you had flounced

Welllll, I took a Mnhq-enforced break for a while

And am now reading more than posting as tapping out my usual essays is a PITA with one finger....

ohhh. Do I want to ask or am I not allowed??

the finger reference has reminded me of how we joked last year that you always pop up whenever anyone mentions you on threads and that you must sit there pressing F5 all day "with her scrawny finger".

Happy memories

You can ask, but if I told you I would have to kill you

You're scary enough already, without throwing death threats about!

Must actually go to bed now. Hope you're ok OP.

Hi Twinkle glad you are sounding upbeat and cheeky

I shall always smile at the memory of your lovely baby girl. She is so sweet! You are a wonderful mum to her.

OP take it a step at a time and you will find you have travelled a long way. We are rooting for you

OP, I do understand your desire to get out of the house. I much preferred my ex not knowing my exact address for the year or so. I did not want him waiting outside my door looking all menacing. Now we've been split up more than three years, and I'm okay with him knowing where I live.

I didn't get the police to accompany me to pick up property, but I did have a very nice female police officer come with me once when I needed to collect my DD from ex's house. When I thanked her, she said it was no problem, they'd happily accompany me to get property as well.

I hope you're not still struggling with the guilt. I can tell you not to feel guilty, but it is easier said than done. A few days after I left, I was walking down the street feeling burdened with guilt and grief, when it occurred to me that my feeling miserable on ex's behalf didn't actually lighten his bad feelings a jot. I couldn't nobly offer to suffer on his behalf. Then I thought - well, if it's not helping anyone, why not give myself a break for a couple of hours? I gave myself permission to feel sad on behalf of DD and myself and not for him. And it was like a physical weight lifting, and once gone, it stayed away.

Thanks nickname, I'm so used to being subsumed by H's feelings I have had to second-guess his reaction on everything for years (as these feelings always come 'first') - and i think this is where the guilt comes from. It's from feeling responsible for him - and I'm quickly learning that I'm not. I know we'll be bloody fine, me and DS - much better in fact. Even changing schools - it will be OK. The only thing about refuge is you're not sure which area you'll end up - bit of a random throw-yourself-into-the-void - but i'd rather that than this horrible stasis and this massive facade of an existence.

twinkle - you said you left twice??

It takes a long time to stop judging your every action by what you predict his reaction will be...I'm getting there after nearly 11 months outfamous last words

I planned and left NSDH threatened, swore I was mad, threatened again, was arrested, ....blah blah, but do you know what the longer you are away (and even days) the easier it is to see their behaviour for what it is, you become less scared and less controlled and more yourself

BTW I also felt dreadful for planning an exit unbeknownst to him for 8 weeks. In our whole (13 year) relationship I felt I had always kept the moral high ground of acting in good faith. It was still the best thing I did and we are growing in strength and DCs are thriving.

A word from the fool too...don't be hasty in setting up contact with DC...give it a couple of weeks (or longer0 for you to settle and be in a better place.

Also you might like to investigate the possibility of returning to your home via an occupation order which will remove him form the place and keep him at an agreed distance. breach leads to police removal and possible visits to court

It takes a while to undo the training and think about your own feelings instead of his. You probably haven't been "allowed" to feel your own feelings for quite a while now.

Waiting for the move to happen is harder than actually doing it. It's a very weird and scary time. If it's any consolation, the refuge I stayed in was a beautiful old house in a very genteel area. Very elegant!

best wishes for your much brighter future. Grab hold of your life and wrestle it back for you and DC and never look back.

thanks fool - i remember seeing some of your posts before. well done for leaving... the secretive nature of it is hard, isn't it? but so necessary. I've had 14 weeks of counselling and H didn't even find out! felt dreadful but it was towards a good end - for DS as much as me (if not more). have already started leaving items at a friend's flat - the meaningful stuff that will probably get broken etc. i will look into occupation order - I have a (divorced) friend who is a top dog lawyer and think I will pluck up courage to email her in confidence. phew. Thanks all again. i'm getting near the other side (a couple of weeks to go but planning to be done....)

Smashed yes twice would be correct. About a year ago I started a thread because I felt that something wasn't right. Within a few months Id recognised that ex was EA and SA. At this time he was ramping up the abuse all the time; every time Id learnt a bit more and recognised what he was doing he would do something else and Id be ground down a bit more. It was like trying to swim at sea in choppy waters, wave after wave kept coming at me and i couldn't keep my head above water. I was also still minimising a lot of the abuse and didn't feel I needed to leave. I thought I should for DDs sake (she was 6/7mo) but I didn't want to. We were both young when we met and Id watched him start the abuse when we had DD. For me that complicated things because it seemed to me that DD was the cause and if I could identify the cause then i could help him change.

It was taken out of my hands when we had an argument and he decided we had split up. He became very agressive and waved a samurai sword (unsheathed) around when DD was playing on the floor. At that point I realised I was not in control at all, that he wasnt the same person he used to be and that i had to protect DD. I barricaded us in the nursery that night and left in the morning when he popped out.

I was in refuge for roughly a month over xmas of last year. In feb I rang to leave a message which I hoped would mean I could have closure and move on. He answered the phone (big mistake). He seemed totally different, in tears at what he'd done. Told me he hadnt been coping with the baby and had taken it out on me. Promised to attend counselling and CBT spec for abusers, said he was on ADs, would accept support from all services - HV, SS, Family support, SAFE, DV unit. I agreed to meet him for the day but ended up never returning to the refuge. I thought I was in control.

Within a month the EA started again. Its the frog in boiling water analagy - if you drop a frog in boiling water it jumps out as recognises the danger, put a frog in cold water and slowly heat it and the frog doesnt jump out. Its gradual and then suddenly months down the line you realise its worse than it ever was before. This time i was more aware, started planning quietly to leave. he found my emails with my plans on, was visibly shaking with anger, very dangerous and said we were over but he would be taking DD and he would not be leaving the flat. I went out the next morning to go to tescos with DD, stepped out the front door and knew I wasn't going to go back. This time I walked into the council and stated that I had fled DV and as such was unintentionally homeless. They put me into a B&B for a week and then Emergency temporary accomodation (a studio flat) for a further month until I could get myself my own place.

I can see now that i never should have gone back but I believed there was a chance and as long as that doubt was there I was always at risk of going back - I had to know for myself that he wasn't going to change. i can recognise now that its not that he changed into an abuser, but that it was always there underneath and it always would have emerged regardless of who he was with or what they had done.

twinkle - your story is shocking and you were brave to leave. i have taken a while to get my head round leaving, esp as I didn't want to leave and return again. to see the manipulation for what it is takes a long time - esp as cut off from family and friends (it's all SO template) - one has no perspective because there just isn't any. i think H has always been self-involved - but his attitudes to women were enabled and validated when we had DS. to be the big man, and let the woman do the donkey work with the baby - that shocked me, but society often doesn't see it - or sees it as 'normal'. even though he doesn't support us, i'm supposed to work (and earn enough to pay 50% of everything), do most childcare, be tidy, be compliant, not have friends or go out, etc etc. the worst part is H's denial, however. he will deny this inequality till the proverbial cows come home.
not to mention all that swearing he does, all the time - sometimes general, sometime in myself and DS' direction.
anyway, on a lighter note - hey ho! I'm off very shortly. he can swear at his own reflection.

Thats because he doesnt understand that there is any inequality. he believes his opinion is normal - ex would often say to me that he wasn't trying to hurt me he was "being a man". "Its just what men do". In saying that he will deny his inequality you are still putting yourself up against him, engaging with him in your mind and you need to try not to do that. You need to try and see it as his perception of everything is warped. He is living in a bubble. You can run at the sides of the bubble and attempt to get through to him until your head bleeds but it wont have any impact on him.

And from that analagy you can see that you are making yourself stressed and your head bleed while he barely registers what you're doing. Everytime he does or says something which exhibits thoughts from his bubble world, just think "back in the bubble" and envisage stuffing that stupid thought or ideal back in the bubble with him. Dont let it touch you, enter your mind, enrage or engage you. Its his issues, his failure to see his own inequality not yours. Infact all his EA is really his attempts to drag you into that bubble with him. So the more of his shit that you push away, the more detached you will become.

twinkle - like the bubble idea. i will stuff all his thoughts back in pronto. he's the most self-obsessed person i've ever met, i don't think i register much, to be honest - unless i overstep one his many lines.... i care less and less about that though. or at least on good days.
one more thought - if he smashes up some of my stuff, should i take pics to prove it was there in the first place and to get him to replace any items i hold dear? i just have a few little bits - can't take it all with us - and some mean things to me and are hard to find. really, it's all tat, but i've had some of it for twenty years. or will i not care once out?

There is probably a limit to what you can expect to be able to replace...the sentimental value is hard to replace anyway. If you can prioritise things well after yourselves.

you should (IMO) be trying to look forward rather than back and I wouldn't waste precious energy trying to predict what he will/won't do. Rather look to the future, what you will/won't do and the future you are building. this will give you energy and help you to free yourself from him

yes, fool, this anal-retentive 'possessions' stuff is prob. a bit of psychological stalling on my part. these details have been logged; will process.
firmly facing the future >>> will do.

Twinkle so good to get your update! I remember your thread(s) last year. I'm so glad to hear you're safe.

Hi anonacfr I posted for a while under various names but have finally reached a point where I felt strong enough to venture back under Twinkle (which followed Weeble!). Its good to be back and Im really touched that you remember me. x

Just saw this Twinkle. I remember how brave you were and how lovely your DD sounded. I'm really glad you're back on MN.
Smashedpotato sorry to hijack your thread. I hope you've emailed your friend to ask for advice. How are things?

anonacfr shes 18mo now, its scary. Im also 14 weeks pg so think Ive got a lot more being brave coming up! Im better than I think I can ever remember being atm though - its the utter freedom and the fact that having parented since DD was newborn with a huge amount of control and abuse from ex, being pg and having a toddler feels like a holiday by comparison!!

Honestly, the relief when they are out of your life (take note smashed!!) is the best feeling in the world.

Things OK, anon, thanks. Emailed lawyer friend and she gave me some good advice which I need to follow up... She was shocked to hear situation (I thought everyone could see it, tbh) but I realised how unmixed up I am now - compared to a year ago. Onward!
In RL saw my sister and she is being wonderful and just told me to get out quick and yes take the coffee grinder. Plans are afoot in next few weeks I will keep you posted as I'm just going to take a big gulp and do it. Just get out. Glad to hear yr experience twinkle too - onward! to you.