This is not the happy family I wanted and I don't know what to do

[Cydonia]

DP and I have been together 12 yrs, had our first DC in May. I knew before having him that I would be doing the vast majority of the baby care and accepted this, but it's all going wrong....
DP works 60 hrs a week (min) on nights, so I do understand he's going to be tired, fair enough. It does mean that during the week he's either at work, travelling, or in bed, I only see him for a couple of hours a day. But now when he's not at work all we seem to do is row. I think he uses the fact that I'm breastfeeding as an excuse to not help me much with DS. He will have him for cuddles and playing, or look after him for an hour or so if I need to go out but everything else is down to me, including the cooking and housework. I've never seen him read a book or magazine or look anything up on the Internet that is baby related, ie all the 'finding out how to look after a baby stuff' is left to me too. All I get is what such and such from work or his mother has told him, usually a load of crap like giving your baby bread soaked in milk makes them sleep better!
In his defence he is supportive in words, he does tell me often that I'm doing a great job and that I'm doing well with the bf-ing as 'most people give up after a couple of months' But when I think of friends partners and posts I've read on here I can't help but be jealous that they are more hands on.
The other main issue is his snoring, which I have posted about before. It is horrific, before DS I had to sleep with ear plugs in but was still often kept awake. I've tried to get him to see a doctor, I've tried to explain he'll feel better himself if he gets it sorted, I've told him that it can have an effect on his health in general ( I think he had sleep apnoea ) but he won't do anything about it. This means that at weekends I get hardly any sleep as after I've been up with the baby I can't get to sleep because of the racket he is making. It also wakes DS up at times.
We've just had a massive row. DS's sleep is not great at the moment, but tonight he's woken up every hour or less since 1am. I said it was probably DP's snoring as he's not normally this bad. He flipped, went on a rant about how he works his arse off and just wanted one nights sleep in a bed ( he's slept on the sofa a couple of times, but usually comes to bed at some point, also sleeps 7hrs + during day when on nights ), how his back aches and his legs bruised from sleeping on the sofa and how he's knackered.
He's told me he's sick of me moaning about his snoring, how having a baby always makes people split up and that I should move in with my dad if I don't like it! Very mature. I tried to reason with him that I was also knackered ( apparently doesn't matter as I don't have to work ) and that all I'm asking him to do us see a doctor and maybe give me a little bit of support. He just carried on ranting, including 'I haven't even been out to wet the baby's head yet, I bet you go out before I do' - not true, he's been out drinking twice since DS was born.He also was out on a fishing trip all day yesterday. I have only left him for a couple of hours to go and see to my horse or to do some shopping.
Sorry for the long rambling post, I just don't know where to go from here. I can't stand his mood swings, one minute all is fine and we'll have a nice day out and he'll talk about all the stuff we can do together and how great it is having DS. Next thing if I disagree about something or even hint at a criticism he goes off on one and tells me if I don't like it we should just split up, it's like there's no point trying to talk through problems like rational adults.
I don't want us to split up, I want us to be a family. What can I do????

Gosh what a response! Some good advice there everyone, thank you. We have set up an inflatable bed in the spare room for tonight, he's back at work tomorrow night so hopefully will get a bit more sleep. Went to baby massage this afternoon, not cheered by everyone else's babies who are either sleeping through or only waking up once. Sorting DS's sleep would go a long way to helping the situation but that's a whole new thread.....
I think I will also take the advice about getting out together without DS. He will take expressed milk from a bottle so I'm sure someone will have him for an hour or two if we went out, even if just for lunch.
Maybe I should get my dad to have a word with him, he used to help my mum with the housework and read us bedtime stories etc. FIL however was apparently no help whatsoever, need to make sure this doesn't run in the family!

I would leave off the helping out lectures until you have both had more sleep. He's working 60 hours a week and that is a LOT. I think he needs a bit of space for now, and the equality thing can follow later.

Don't worry about the other babies allegedly sleeping longer. Some of them will be lying!

Glad you've found a temporary solution Cydonia. Only time will tell whether it's the lack of sleep that is at fault, but at least you have made a start.

Boffinmum - are you saying you can get singing lessons on the NHS?

Good idea about inflatable bed, even better to think about getting a proper bed so you have options in terms of sleeping. After one baby, we learnt the hard way and second time around, I slept with dd2 in the big bed and my husband in the spare room, and it was 100% better, he was so ill with exhaustion first time around and so was I, we just couldn't do it again. The key is to emphasise that you are not coming apart as a couple, this is just a temporary measure to help you through the worst of it, even just for a few nights a week, and that you will get back to being together further down the line.

Definitely get him to check out the snoring though with the GP, it has health related problems/can increase risk of issues, and with him working nights, his body is already under strain.

I'm guessing if he is working long hours and nights that money is a bit of an issue, this adds to the stress.

I wouldn't ask your dad to have a word, just keep handing him the baby, going out for an hour or two if you can, asking for help. It is wrong to say 'he should just know what to do', you become an expert very quickly when you are the stay at home parent, but it is much harder when you are out of the home to pick up routines, cues, know the best solution (I found this as a working mum with the father at home, it's easy to feel they know best and step back). The more you can carve out time for yourself, the more he will get confidence in dealing with the baby- the fact he's doing cuddles/taking them for an hour or so is a great starting point.

And I agree- set the expectations now. That doesn't mean he has to go crazy with housework, just that there's an expectation that everyone puts in effort as much as they can (and hires a cleaner/gets ready meals the rest of the time) and that childcare and household tasks are now for everyone to manage, not just you as you are at home.

It's really hard living with a snorer. My dh is similar and I spend most nights moving around different children's beds as they wake up. Dh does this sometimes too, so we take it in turns in our double bed. I cannot sleep at all with him in there. I slept on the sofa last night in an attempt to get a full night's sleep. I think I need to get used to it. Dh has tried with the snoring (has been to GP twice in 9 years!), but it is a slow process and he has not been committed to it. Keep going with this. He will get there in the end.

I think your expectations of him are a bit high (not many guys I know do spend hours reading books/ on the net investigating parenting/ weaning etc!).

I think people are being really harsh on your dh. I am certainly someone who says nasty things in rows that I don't really mean. You are entitled to be angry, but this is not a reason to label him selfish, or start planning a divorce.

It's a hard time for both of you, a really hard time. Stick with it. Sure, if in 5 years there are no improvements it is time to let go. But the baby is 4 months old and you are adjusting from a 12 year relationship.

Its so tough when they are this age but in a few Weeks DDS will probably start to settle, even more if you are both a bit more relaxed. Sleep solutions are great.I remember hating my sons Dad as he worked nights so I got to hear him sleeping all day.its like torture! Remember sleep deprivation is a major instrument of torture so do not underestimate its psychological impact! Try and just get through each day for now and hope it will come together...but yes I agree with Mumsy, set your standard and expectations too x

Keep going with the baby massage, I've heard it works wonders for sleep. You don't say but I presume the baby is in with you? Might it be time for baby to go in his own room? He must be around 5 months old now?

My ds used to be a terrible sleeper and still is really, but right up until he was 5 months old I was still getting up with him 4 or 5 times every night. He wasn't really hungry, it was more that he was comfort feeding. I made the decision at that time to give him formula for his last feed. I had exclusively breastfed until he was 5 months and I figured for my sanity and health (I was losing weight and becoming ill whilst he gained the pounds) dropping one feed wouldn't do any harm. It did make a difference. The formula seemed to content him more and he slept longer.

He did still wake at night but not until around 4am/5am whereas before it was 2am and then 3am etc. We put him into his own room, got some blackout blinds and rather than go to him straight away, I let him cry for a little first to see if he couldn't settle himself. This was hard because he was waking his sister up each time, but we needed to break this habit he had of waking each night and crying for comfort feeds. He knew that if he cried, I would come and comfort him back to sleep. He had to learn to go back to sleep by himself.

It wasn't easy and yes we did controlled crying which obviously isn't for everyone but I knew that we were all shattered and tensions were running high, so I took what I thought to be the lesser evil at the time. I started off just going to him but not picking him up. Then I would only appear at the doorway saying soothing things until eventually I would merely call out.

He's still a pretty naff sleeper now that he's 8 but I do remember those long dark days of feeling crap all the time, exhausted, short tempered and miserable. The weight that lifted off my shoulders when I made the decision to give him formula for his last feed was immense. And it really did make a difference.

Sometimes you have to weigh up what is best for the baby and what is best for the family as a whole.

I'm sure you will get some cracking advice from the sleeping thread but remember, everyone's opinion is just that. Don't dismiss anything without giving it due consideration first. Best of luck.

But around 5 months is when one of the biggest development leaps occurs, you want to be with your baby rather than shove him in another room, on his own. NHS website anyways does not recommend control crying or sleep training until 6 months at least and on the Continent not before 1 year.
Yes your baby will wake up more often and sleep quite badly for a few weeks but it will get better (eventually). And then happen again around the 9 months regression and 11 months regression.
Whereas Rhubard chose to put her baby in another room I chose to continue to co-sleep and DS is now 17 months and it is 5 months already that he sleeps 12 hours every single night. The comfort of having mummy and daddy close by is a huge factor I believe.
Dp is a bad snorer too and we argue about it from time to time but we set up a comfortable bed in another room / floor a while ago and either I go if I cna't bare it or I kick DP out of bed so that we both can at least catch up on some sleep (we are in our 40s and sleep deprivation at our age is a killer).

Don't listen to the other mums at baby massage. Everyone exaggerates how brilliant everything is at these classes.

I think one way or another everyone goes through a transitional time after a first baby and it can be hellish. I was very close to my DH and I definitely went through a stage of at best finding him irritating to detesting him for a period after DD1 was born.

Good luck.

Olive, every baby is different and what worked for you might not have worked for me and vice versa.

The NHS is always changing its mind about what is best for your baby. First it said you should breastfeed for at least 3 months, then that changed to 6 and now some are recommending a whole year. It was ok to wean at 3 months, now it's 6 months and even later. First it was fine to co-sleep then it wasn't because of the danger of suffocation.

Generally I believe that you need to do what is right for your own baby and your own circumstances. You don't have to disregard what the HV says or the NHS but if you tried to live up to every expectation and do everything textbook perfect then you'd soon wear yourself out.

Tiredness is impacting heavily on the OP and her dh. It's affecting their marriage. I am suggesting that look at ways she can make it easier for herself. You don't need to be a martyr mother, we all take the odd short-cut from time to time

This kind of thing drives me mad:

A lot of fathers are not great with newborns, especially if they are not involved in the feeding. There is only so much tummy time, Round and Round the Garden and This Little Piggy that most men can do (I certainly speak for myself here!).

There's only so much of this that most humans can do. What is it about women that makes them better at engaging with pre-verbal babies? Nothing - except that they don't have expectations that they "should" be doing something more interesting. Having under 5s drove me almost round the bend with boredom, frustration, tiredness. But somehow women are supposed to just get on with it whereas men can be excused. My best advice to parents of newborns is that they should expect to feel that they don't exist for the best part of a year - you are struggling just to keep on top of life. It's tough for everyone. Don't let anyone tell you it's easier for women. It's just that society doesn't give them the opt out it gives men like the OP's DH.

Anyway, I agree with the posters who have said that the first few months are utterly corrosive to many relationships - even where the communication is good. Because everyone struggles. So to answer the OP I would say don't judge your whole relationship by this particularly stressful time. But yes your DH should be connecting with you on your joint enterprise of your baby. This is why it is perfectly realistic to expect a dad to be looking at baby websites or getting the information you jointly need however he can. It might be unusual for men to do it but if they want children then it only really works as a joint enterprise.

DrJohnsons,

They have breasts, which newborns seem to find amazing. They either actually want to feed or just take comfort from being near them. It really is as simple as that for breastfed babies. It is incredibly frustrating to be holding a screaming baby and knowing that nothing in the world that you can do will comfort them, whereas your wife can just put them next to her breasts and they will instantly be happy and relaxed.

Some human beings, and I do think that they are mostly women, seem to really enjoy the company of newborns and have an instinctive rapport with them. Maybe you were not one of them, but that is not the point. FWIW, I now probably do about 30% of the time with our 3 and nearly 2 year old (as well as a hell of a lot of other stuff) and do not find it remotely boring. In fact, although it is tiring, I find it fascinating to see how they learn and develop.

well unless your DW has extraordinary breasts, she's not breastfeeding while doing tummy time which is what you were talking about

And I completely disagree that women are instinctively better with babies. My nephews are both delightful with babies and are really fascinated by them. They've been brought up to see it as their thing as much as it is a girl/woman thing. Perhaps because their father is utterly 50/50 with their mother and would hate to think that their mother could bond better with them just because she's their mother.

Women are better because they've been trained to be better and don't get given a choice. I look forward to men making the decision my BIL did to make it all his responsibility just as much as it was my sister's.

DrJohnsons,

There is plenty of evidence both from people and our close primate relatives that there is a close instinctive bond from a mother to a newborn. Clearly she has carried that foetus and felt its kicks, as well as been stimulated by bonding hormones which have evolved over millennia. There is some evidence that men's hormones do also change in response to having a newborn, but to a far lesser extent.

Newborns tend to exist on around 2-4 hour cycles which include at least one sleep and one feed. Unless you are both permanently around so that the man can play games and then immediately hand the baby over every time it needs feeding or comfort, it makes sense to package those functions with the mother, at least for the first few months.

There is plenty we men can do to support women in this. I am not suggesting kicking back with the newspaper.

What is this 'tummy time' you speak of?

It's really hard being new parents, and breast-feeding can be really emotionally and physically draining - things do get easier. i think you mentioned that there is a room for the baby to go into - maybe DH could sleep there sometimes?
i do sympathise ; my DH has always done some ( irregular) night shifts, and I did feel quite unsupported when the DC were babies - as you say, its work/travel/sleep and not much in between.
As far as the snoring is concerned, this used to drive me bonkers, until I read a letter in magazine from a recently widowed old lady, who said she'd give anything to hear her husband snoring again :( It put it into perspective - i just stopped feeling so irritated by it after that, which in itself made it easier to sleep through!

Well last night was slightly better, unfortunately DP hadn't put enough air in the mattress so got back into bed at 5am! He has promised to sort it by the weekend though. I think we're both behaving a bit more rationally already, but there's still work to be done.

Rhubarb, I wish the massage did help with DS's sleeping! It's part of his bedtime routine complete with supposedly sleep-inducing oil, but he just uses it as an excuse to have a manic wriggle on the floor. I'm afraid I'm too paranoid to put him in his own room yet, though I think it would help as he does make a lot of noise, even when he's not upset.

DrJohnson, I have to disagree slightly. I think DS sometimes settles better for DP because he doesn't have breasts! Because I mean food to him and smell all milky I think it makes him just want to nurse all the time so he can be more fussy with me. However most of the time if he's 'on one' he won't have either of us!