This is not the happy family I wanted and I don't know what to do

[Cydonia]

DP and I have been together 12 yrs, had our first DC in May. I knew before having him that I would be doing the vast majority of the baby care and accepted this, but it's all going wrong....
DP works 60 hrs a week (min) on nights, so I do understand he's going to be tired, fair enough. It does mean that during the week he's either at work, travelling, or in bed, I only see him for a couple of hours a day. But now when he's not at work all we seem to do is row. I think he uses the fact that I'm breastfeeding as an excuse to not help me much with DS. He will have him for cuddles and playing, or look after him for an hour or so if I need to go out but everything else is down to me, including the cooking and housework. I've never seen him read a book or magazine or look anything up on the Internet that is baby related, ie all the 'finding out how to look after a baby stuff' is left to me too. All I get is what such and such from work or his mother has told him, usually a load of crap like giving your baby bread soaked in milk makes them sleep better!
In his defence he is supportive in words, he does tell me often that I'm doing a great job and that I'm doing well with the bf-ing as 'most people give up after a couple of months' But when I think of friends partners and posts I've read on here I can't help but be jealous that they are more hands on.
The other main issue is his snoring, which I have posted about before. It is horrific, before DS I had to sleep with ear plugs in but was still often kept awake. I've tried to get him to see a doctor, I've tried to explain he'll feel better himself if he gets it sorted, I've told him that it can have an effect on his health in general ( I think he had sleep apnoea ) but he won't do anything about it. This means that at weekends I get hardly any sleep as after I've been up with the baby I can't get to sleep because of the racket he is making. It also wakes DS up at times.
We've just had a massive row. DS's sleep is not great at the moment, but tonight he's woken up every hour or less since 1am. I said it was probably DP's snoring as he's not normally this bad. He flipped, went on a rant about how he works his arse off and just wanted one nights sleep in a bed ( he's slept on the sofa a couple of times, but usually comes to bed at some point, also sleeps 7hrs + during day when on nights ), how his back aches and his legs bruised from sleeping on the sofa and how he's knackered.
He's told me he's sick of me moaning about his snoring, how having a baby always makes people split up and that I should move in with my dad if I don't like it! Very mature. I tried to reason with him that I was also knackered ( apparently doesn't matter as I don't have to work ) and that all I'm asking him to do us see a doctor and maybe give me a little bit of support. He just carried on ranting, including 'I haven't even been out to wet the baby's head yet, I bet you go out before I do' - not true, he's been out drinking twice since DS was born.He also was out on a fishing trip all day yesterday. I have only left him for a couple of hours to go and see to my horse or to do some shopping.
Sorry for the long rambling post, I just don't know where to go from here. I can't stand his mood swings, one minute all is fine and we'll have a nice day out and he'll talk about all the stuff we can do together and how great it is having DS. Next thing if I disagree about something or even hint at a criticism he goes off on one and tells me if I don't like it we should just split up, it's like there's no point trying to talk through problems like rational adults.
I don't want us to split up, I want us to be a family. What can I do????

It isn't just the 60 hr week. Look at the way he reacts in an argument, leave if you don't like it attitude. The fact he does no housework or cooking. She works more than 60 hours a week with the baby and he can't run a Hoover around the house. Really people think these are OK qualities in a partner? Bloody hell

Cydonia,

I don't know any new parents who don't bicker all the time about everything. Maybe it's just the NCT friends I've got, but to me this seems pretty normal. As is your DP being a bit jealouse of your bond with DS and BF and the typical who's more tired arguments are very usual as well.
Men tend to work hard for the family and bring in money, that's how they see they are contributing and as DS will grow older your DP will be able to do more and be more hands-on. I got my DP a booked called sometihng like "First year as a new dad" which had loads of practical ideas of what men can do with a young baby and how they can develop their relationship, I ended up reading it myself as DP would not and used some of their games ideas and DP eventually just copied me and found out his own way of being with DS.
It's still quite new, a generation ago no father would have dreamt to stay up all night with a new born, etc...
The extreme fatigue of the beginning is destorting how healthy your family life is, give it some time, don't listen to Mumsnetters who advocate splitting up, this is ridiculous.
Just remind yourself that most new families go through exactly the same thing! You'll find your footing and so will your DP.

This all sounds eerily familiar, OP, but it's a long time ago for me now. The snoring is terrible, my partner also does this, I would sleep in another room with the baby or vice versa and leave him to get a good night's sleep. People on MN are very dismissive about the partner's need to sleep to work, but having crashed my car when sleep deprived, and nearly taking my marriage to the brink of disaster when we were so tired and arguing all the time, neither feeling appreciated, I think sleep is the number one priority to sort out. Just go and sleep with your baby in the main bed/buy a blow up mattress for him/go elsewhere- do you have a spare room?

I would also get him to check for sleep apnoea, but this won't be instant unless you have private health insurance, because you have to have tests and it takes ages to get into a sleep clinic, if you have private, I would go private, but sort out a way in which you can sleep is the number one priority. Competitive tiredness is a well known phenomenon when you have a baby.

For all those shouting-what does he bring? LTB? I am absolutely amazed that you can tell this relationship is doomed from postings of someone who has a four month old baby. All the people I know found the first year a struggle, and plenty of people end up arguing over sleep/childcare arrangements/difficulties in that early period, it's hell on earth. I see nothing unusual in this post at all, the OP is stuck at home doing all the household stuff, he is working very long hours, they are arguing and sleep-deprived. Perfectly normal stuff.

You can work on getting a better distribution of household tasks/roles as well in that first year- he sounds like he is doing some things, so cuddling, taking baby for a while. If you want him to do more, you need to specify what it is you want, (so, do bath and bed on Tue/Thurs) or household tasks, otherwise the stay at home parent can end up doing everything by default.

The MN test, which is a good one, is are you getting the same amount of time off- i.e. without baby, or to pursue your own goals/hobbies? Could you have a few hours off? (you mention going out). Take up the opportunity to do your own things, so it is clear from the start that you are both entitled to time off, and on weekends, childcare/household stuff/time off needs to be shared.

I think it is far too early and there is far too much potential to change to worry this is all a disaster, plenty of families take time to adjust (my husband was really useless with my first child, but is now one of the most proactive child-oriented dads I know and took a year off when my second was born).

I have to shout at mine until my opinion gets heard, but I hate conflict and didn't want to be the nagging wifey! It seems to be the only way to get through. I do occasionally dream of leaving, but when I weigh it up, the good times still outweigh the bad, so it is worth fighting for. If you don't want to split up, I would be more persistent at making your voice heard in the relationship. If this still doesn't work further down the line - you will know what to do.

I also wouldn't worry about him not looking up stuff on the internet about babies, this isn't how all people learn about babies, some prefer just to get on with it- and he does cuddle/play with the baby.

I think there are more pressing problems, namely sleep. If you sort that out, it's much easier and clearer to see what else is going on.

Thats a great post Mumsyblouse. I agree with the posts which say that the early days with a new baby are the toughest for both parties and that he does seem to be doing his share working so many hours a week. However, you do need to talk to him and try and get things back on track. Its so much better when you are both on the same page.

I cant really say too much more than what Mumsyblouse has said but its a shame that your husband has to work so many hours - I know its probably needed for financial reasons but you do miss much of your child growing up, and you dont get that time back.

Yes, mumsyblouse has got it right.

New baby, v little sleep, SAHM and life is nothing but baby and housework and no time for OP - you're bound to be fed up.

DP has crotchety tired DP and a new baby that he doesn't know one end of from another, and is also tired due to work and snoring.

But you need to tell DP what to do, say 'serve the dinner while I wash up' or whatever (nothing vague like clean the living room) because who would choose to do housework if they didn't have to??? More important than housework, OP, is doing something for yourself even if it's just a nice walk (without baby, DP can watch him).

It takes a very long time for you both to adjust to becoming parents. In his defense, you had an extra 9 months whereas he's still coming to terms with it really. Also as you do the main bulk of the childcare, you can now accept your role as mother whereas what has changed for him? Less sleep and more rows. His lifestyle hasn't changed and that's not his fault, just a reason why he might be adapting much slower than you.

I am the same as everyone else on here. For the first few months of our baby's life dh and I were on the verge of splitting up as neither of us found it easy to adjust our lives around this little baby and we took it out on each other.

You need more time with him alone. Can you not arrange a weekend away without the baby? I appreciate that is difficult when you are breastfeeding still, but could you manage one night?

There was a reason why you accepted him for all that he is and didn't try to change him - can you remember what that was? What drew you to him in the first place? What are his attractive qualities?

Those qualities are still there but in the fuzz of sleep deprivation, stress and babies you might not be able to see them.

Work out a compromise. Perhaps he can bathe the baby each night whilst you read the newspaper? Sell it to him as a bonding session between him and the baby, something they can enjoy together. Don't put it to him as a chore.

I promise it will get easier as the baby gets older and once you get through this glitch you might well find yourselves closer than ever. Right now you are both irritable, tired and still in a state of adjustment so go easy with him and you.

Telling him what to do re housework to me sounds like a mother talking to their child. This man is an adult (supposedly), why does he have to be told (he would take this as nagging). He's already had a moan about OP supposedly going out for a couple of hours; this from a man who has been on all day fishing trips and out to the pub.

He seems to be doing all the nice bits i.e cuddling and playing but nothing else. He expects OP to do it and she is doing all of the housework on top of her being sleep deprieved.

He has and continued to ignore his sleep disorder. (He certainly need to stop sleeping on the sofa; that is also contributing to his back problems).

What do you make of him telling OP that if she does not like it she can go and live at her Dad's?.

Ok so he works nights; why has he not gone to his employers and asked them to rearrange his hours so that he can actually be at home more often rather than using it as a crash pad. His partner, the woman who is he supposed to love, is getting a very raw deal here.

How would you also square the idea that OP stated this in her original post:-
"I knew before having him that I would be doing the vast majority of the baby care and accepted this, but it's all going wrong..."

Sleep deprivation can turn the most lovely, patient person into a bitter and resentful person (been there, done that!). It's a recognised form of torture. I think step 1 is to accept that you're both exhausted with no reserves left to call on, are working as hard as you can, and not reacting like you would normally do when faced with criticism. It's tough on both of you.

As to solutions, I agree with the poster above about making small, practical requests regarding the housework, and make sure there is a good balance between how much 'me-time' you each have during the week. Maybe sit down tonight and have a good laugh about how mad life has become, see what jobs can be dropped for the next few months to relieve pressure on you both, and then grind it out until the baby start to sleeps through.

I agree you should not treat him as a child, not just because he should behave as an adult but also because he will resent being spoken down to.

I find it generally works if you start by confiding in him how tough you are finding it being a mother. Be honest with him and tell him how sad you can get, how lonely it is, how it's nothing like you expected and how tough you are finding the transition. Don't blame, just state how you feel. This should be the green light for him to voice his own feelings and between you both you can come up with a supportive plan.

He needs sleep or else he could possibly be dangerous on his job, so how can you resolve that? Could you get a camp bed for the living room so he can sleep in comfort?
You need help with the baby so could he possibly bathe the baby each night? Read it a bedtime story?
You also need time together so could you pencil in one evening a week when the baby is in bed for you to eat together, just as a couple?
And how about expressing so that you can go out as a couple? Could you do that?

Listen to his fears and worries and he will start listening to yours. But if you play the blame game you'll just feel resentful and defensive and so will he.

Ciske,

With relation to your last sentence I am wondering if the OPs man can actually be reasoned with, given this as well:-

"I can't stand his mood swings, one minute all is fine and we'll have a nice day out and he'll talk about all the stuff we can do together and how great it is having DS. Next thing if I disagree about something or even hint at a criticism he goes off on one and tells me if I don't like it we should just split up, it's like there's no point trying to talk through problems like rational adults".

Why can't he take disagreement or even constructive criticism?. Is it because he is and feels above reproach?. Someone who is completely unreasonable like this in my experience likes to get and have their own way all the time.

I have not directly advised OP to leave him but instead to look at the longer term with regards to herself and her son. She cannot rescue this on her own, he has to want to put in the work as well to change things for their own selves.

You both sound bloody shattered. Do whatever you need to do to get some rest, and this will start to be less dreadful for you both.

I agree with mumsy, to get the sleep thing sorted out. This may not be the answer to all your problems but you will never know until you try. Get a good sofabed and make sure it's clean and comfortable. Try to get him to understand that it doesn't mean this is the end of your relationship. Men think it's the end of the world when we tell them we can't sleep in the same bed. Show him the many 'sleeping apart' threads on this site. Many people do it and it's a perfectly good solution when you are going through a difficult time.

Sleeping apart is brilliant when you are shattered. It transforms things. No need to struggle on. I spent a month in the guest room earlier this year when I needed some personal space, inspired by Jennie Murray. Best thing I ever did. DH used to tuck me in and kiss me goodnight, and I slept like an (older!) baby.

Attila, do you actually have children? This is the worst advice I've ever read. the only way I can explain it is if you actually don't know what you are talking about....

Op, get a cleaner, for £7 an hour you get someone to do the cleaning instead of you.

They will both still be sleep-deprived even if they have a cleaner.

Its not about children and whether I have any; this is about two adults and a baby.

Why does he have to be told specifically to do stuff, why can't he clear up after himself?.

OP wants to be part of a family, to me he seems to want to be a part of this family only on his terms. Why does he go off on one when OP tries to talk to him and states that if she does not like she she can go to her Dad's?.

Atilla - I'm not saying it's right that the OP's husband has mood swings, but if this is out of character, and he didn't have this pre-baby, it could very well be a side effect of sleep deprivation. I would often get unreasonable and short tempered after a bad night sleep. You see the best and the worse of each other when you have a child, so rather than judging either OP or her partner, let's put it in perspective for them so they can hopefully find a way out.

Also, I don't think you treat him like a child by giving him specific tasks. This is a man who works 60 hours a week and is barely home. He doesn't know when the floor was last vacuumed or when the beds were last changed, which household chores are easy for OP to do during the day and which ones are getting left, because he's never been in her situation. Just tell him where he can help.

Because he too is sleep deprived Attila. He works 60 hrs a week doing night shifts. He suffers sleep apnoea which means he doesn't get a decent night's sleep anyway and when you are that exhausted, sleep becomes a huge part of who you are, it's all you think about and you cannot function properly or even have a conversation because you just want to put your head down and sleep.

He is feeling defensive no doubt and inadequate and has gone from being a married man with his wife all to himself to a dad who has to share his wife.

Can you not remember how you felt when the baby came along? It's easy to snap at every little thing, to become paranoid even, to blow things out of all proportion and to say the most hurtful things possible all because you were just exhausted and lonely and resentful.

Give him a break. I'm sure he's not always like this. The couple are going through a very very stressful time and I'm sure if we think back we can all remember things we've done or said at shitty times too and if they had been posted on Mumsnet, posters would be advising that our partners leave us!

I sincerely hope that this is but just a blip in their relationship and that it works out for them. I cannot help but think he feels entitled to behave as he does, why his attitude of if you don't like it then you can go and live with Dad?. That I cannot square with him being just sleep deprieved and working long hours on a nights.

He should clear up after himself, OP has made reference to this. She herself wrote, " even just creating a little less mess in the first place would be a start".
If he makes a mess then he should clear it away himself. That is what I was getting at earlier.

Why has he not dealt with his sleep disorder?. He needs to get his head out of the sand re his health.

atilla This is a time for adjustment, and there are hundreds of books out there on how difficult this is for many couples. Great for you if you had it sorted from day one, but plenty of couples don't and it's not helped by idealised romantic versions of motherhood and fatherhood- witness the 'why doesn't he look on baby websites' as an example, it's just not realistic nor what 99% of parents round the world do!

There's plenty here that isn't ideal, the point is a) it is pretty much normal for having a four month baby and so no need to panic and b) it is potentially changeable, see all the posters on here expressing that they have been in similar situations.

No one is saying put up and shut up. But equally, there is a very good reason why everyone is shouty, saying nasty things, feeling like crap and so on- they are all sleep deprived and going through the biggest role adjustment possible.

And the really obvious reason he hasn't sorted out his sleep apnoea or snoring is because it didn't matter before! It wasn't a big issue. Now it is a huge issue, because they are sharing a room with a baby and it keeps the OP awake. So, he shouted about it because he feels blamed for keeping the baby awake, he was defensive. Not ideal response, but this problem is fixable.

Op- get your husband to make a drs appointment to help with the snoring, but you have to be realistic, there's no miracle cure anyway- the surgery is nasty, and the CPAP is good but many people can't tolerate it. But he needs to go on a waiting list to be assessed, at the very least- you also need to go too as you are better positioned to describe the issue as your DH will not be able to hear himself (IYSWIM). Also - as others have said, consider separate rooms/beds for the time being as you won't get seen that quickly or treated quickly either.

Mumsy,

Once again a sensible post.

A lot of fathers are not great with newborns, especially if they are not involved in the feeding. There is only so much tummy time, Round and Round the Garden and This Little Piggy that most men can do (I certainly speak for myself here!). Plenty, however, are great with toddlers and from there on in. Equality in a relationship does not have to be 50/50 every year, every hour, every minute...Is that why most people get married? Equality is both partners contributing from their strengths and, hopefully, being supported in their weaknesses. If he works hard for the family money and contributes some additional time (as he clearly does), he is doing his bit.

It is best not to analyse every word said in the heat of argument (E.G "you can go to your dad's). I suspect that the OP has also said some things to her partner that she would prefer not to write down for everyone's perusal.

With young babies, accept free support (parents etc) when graciously offered, pay for support with things like cleaning if possible and try to remember that no one makes the best decisions when sleep deprived.

Telling him what to do re housework to me sounds like a mother talking to their child. This man is an adult (supposedly), ...........

I was assuming from the way OP spoke that he doesn't do any housework so he WILL need to be told. Likewise she said she assumed she would do most of the childcare so, again, now she realises how all consuming it is, she will have to tell him what and when to do that.

He seems to be doing all the nice bits i.e cuddling and playing but nothing else. He expects OP to do it ....

When you have been with a new baby 24/7 for months anyone taking it off you for any reason is bliss ime.

I'd hardly handled any babies before I had my first, but I had read lots of books, the DP described above is probably in the same position without the books. It's scary at first.

Remember you can also confide in the health visitor.

BTW one solution used for some cases of mild to moderate sleep apnoea is singing lessons, as this allows people to develop a firmer soft palate which then behaves better when they are asleep. I had a GP referral for this once and the results were quite good. Less nasty than surgery, certainly (I have also had referrals for mild to moderate asthmatic patients as well, pleasing results there too).