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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

Divorcing - should I be nice or nasty?

29 replies

Halfcups · 08/09/2012 00:10

In a dilemma and would welcome your thoughts please! Bit of background first....married for six years. Three children 5, 3, 1. DH married before with teenage DD. met in London where I m from. After two years DH wanted to move back north to be closer to his DD1.
I left my job, sold up home and moved 250 miles. As soon as he got here he had regrets. He has transferred from one brigade to another, he s a fireman, and is closer now to his parents, daughter and home town. Relationship between us deteriorated. When pregnant with DD2 he was awful. Abusive, etc. started living almost separately within the same house. He would not talk to me for days,not even say hello. He was always critical of how I kept the house, that I d put on weight etc. I was very isolated. In the end I made him leave which was tough as he refused to go but in the end he did.
Even Relate refused to work with us as they said our relationship was so unsafe and that in order to get counselling we had to live separately. So the understanding was he would live elsewhere, see the kids regularly and we would go to counselling.
No sooner had he moved out he told me he was seeing another woman, also married, and he did nt want to work at our marriage. I was devastated. Felt so humiliated. He now has moved back to his home town (an hour drive away from me and DC). He is living in his own home, a property he has owned for years. Having his garden landscaped And the house extended,etc,etc whereas we are living in rented accommodation which is in receivership so no real security, I m on benefits and we have a handful of acquaintances met via mum s in the school playground. Now he wants me to get the divorce under way as he thinks I ll get legal aid where as it would cost him if he got it under way. I m so confused as to how I should proceed. Half of me wants to pursue a calm and quiet process whilst the other half of me wants to take him for every penny he s got. Money and possessions are very important to him so I know it would hurt!! I don t want to be a doormat any more but at the same time I don t know if I could cope with his angry response if he thinks he has to share his house, his pension, assets from his parents with me. I don't know what to think........

OP posts:

Lovingfreedom · 08/09/2012 00:24

You'll need a solicitor anyway. Speak to one who will give you half an hour or hour for free, get some idea of what s/he thinks your entitled to. Don't see it as being nice or nasty, it's getting your fair share of matrimonial assets and what you need to support your DCs. Your ex sounds pretty unpleasant. Your solicitor should be able to guide you. Your anger at your ex for how he's treated you might serve you well in toughening up for the negotiations..but try not to enter into a nice or nasty game...see it more as a business transaction where you need to get the best deal you can. Remember that every penny that goes to him is taking away from what you could be getting for yourself and, crucially, your children. You're in a good position if he wants a fast settlement...he'll need to agree figures with you and you can string that out as long as you want until he offers something that you are willing to accept. Hold your nerve. It won't make him or anyone else think better or worse of you and won't have any bearing on your relationship with him or anyone else after divorce.

tiredofwaitingforitalltochange · 08/09/2012 00:29

What is a 'fair share' anyway? Genuine question. Dh and I are separating and neither of us has spoken to a solicitor. We've worked it all out ourselves. I have no idea if I am getting a 'good deal' or not.

Original poster

Halfcups · 08/09/2012 00:30

Thanks so much for your thoughts. You sound so clear on what to do. It really helps. Tell me, do you speak from firsthand experience . I m interested!

OP posts:

Lovingfreedom · 08/09/2012 00:31

Your ex might want to control the negotiations and talk directly to you. Only talk to him when it suits you. I'd recommend asking him to put any negotiations in writing so you have a record as well as time to think about how to respond. Think anything through everything before agreeing and also talk through with your solicitor whenever you need to. Avoid any pressure to make snap decisions, adhere to deadlines or ultimatums that he sets or to push things forward. If/whenever things get difficult to negotiate between yourself and your ex, leave it to the solicitors.

Original poster

Halfcups · 08/09/2012 00:34

Sorry I meant that last post for lovingfreedom. Oh... I think the clue might be in your 'name'?!

OP posts:

solidgoldbrass · 08/09/2012 00:37

When a man has already demonstrated that he is a selfish prick or an abuser do not trust him to be fair over divorce. What happens in the divorce is not under his control; you can get a solicitor to argue your case and get a fair deal for you. You were married and have a child with this man; he will have to share his assets with you and the child, whether he likes it or not.

Lovingfreedom · 08/09/2012 00:45

Agree completely with SGB. Be on your guard for tactics such as emotional blackmail, lying, pressure to make fast decisions, pseudo-legal advice apparently from his advisors, any comparison with settlements of people he knows, opinions of so-called friends/his parents etc saying you're unreasonable, making out it's what's best for the kids. If he starts being aggressive at any point then stop talking to him and let him know you want to leave it to solicitors. Chances are he'll be terrified of running up a legal bill, of you being advised properly by a professional and by facing up to what he is going to have to hand over to you.

tiredofwaitingforitalltochange · 08/09/2012 00:50

It sounds completely wrong to me that he seems to have a lovely lifestyle and you are living on benefits in rented accommodation... You said that material stuff is important to him and it would 'hurt'. Do you mention this because you want to 'hurt' him financially - ie in a revengeful way (sounds completely understandable under the circumstances), or because this means he will cut up nasty if you don't just roll over and accept his terms, and this frightens you? Or both?

You shouldn't let fear of his reaction get in the way of securing what you need for yourself and your children. Equally, there's no point being adversarial for the sake of it or to punish him. A friend of mine took a very aggressive approach to her divorce - dh had left her for an OW - and it was a disaster because the real winners were the lawyers.

BurlingtonBertieFromBow · 08/09/2012 01:05

Just make sure you get your fair share. Do not try to be obstructive or overly complicate things. You are likely to get 50% of the assets plus maintenance for the children and possibly you as well depending on the circumstances. Be aware that how badly he has behaved will have absolutely no bearing on the financial settlement, so slinging mud is pointless.

If you try to string it out and be aggressive you will only succeed in racking up a massive legal bill which will mean there's less money to split.

Listen to your solicitor and try to remain unemotional.

Lueji · 08/09/2012 01:11

I wouldn't be nasty or nice.
I'd try to be fair, but also firm in what what I would consider important points.
Choose those carefully. Be prepared to negotiate minor points for you but important for him against important points for you.
Try to be as calm and collected as possible.

It is a negotiation and if you can keep emotion out of it, the better you'll do.

Original poster

Halfcups · 08/09/2012 01:12

Thanks for all your sound advice . I need to think it through and get my initial consultation with solicitor. Re: it will hurt comment I meant it will hurt him as he is tight with his money. But yes I am frightened of his response if I try to take some of his assets. I don t think he would be physically violent but when he loses his temper he goes ballistic! I m not feeling very brave......

OP posts:

dysfunctionalme · 08/09/2012 07:02

I agree with Lovingfreedom - take your solicitor's advice. Don't enter into any negotiations with your ex, let the solicitor handle it in black & white terms.

Try to channel any anger you have for him into a positive force for yourself and your future; you may want some counselling for yourself to help harness the energy into improving your daily life and therefore asserting more control.

I'm sorry for what you're going through, he has treated you & your dc appallingly.

Bellyjaby · 08/09/2012 07:12

"Agree completely with SGB. Be on your guard for tactics such as emotional blackmail, lying, pressure to make fast decisions, pseudo-legal advice apparently from his advisors, any comparison with settlements of people he knows, opinions of so-called friends/his parents etc saying you're unreasonable, making out it's what's best for the kids. If he starts being aggressive at any point then stop talking to him and let him know you want to leave it to solicitors. Chances are he'll be terrified of running up a legal bill, of you being advised properly by a professional and by facing up to what he is going to have to hand over to you."

My ex hubby pulled most of this crap. Thankfully my uncle is a specialist divorce solicitor. When he pulled this I just said "ok, we'll go down the solicitor route then" knowing it would cost him. It was so stupid, we had no kids and barely any assets. All I was asking for was a 50/50 straight split of assets, I'd give up claim on his pension and I demanded a clean break. His mates were telling him to push me out. I got my way in the end, and got him to pay the court costs. Served him right I thought.

purplewithred · 08/09/2012 07:35

Remember that bit at the wedding where you both said 'all that i have i share with you'? Thats a binding contract. All marital assets, whatever their source, are owned 50:50 by the two of you. So any house equity, pension, savings etc etc. the lot. Especially with three children. He will also have to pay maintenance for the children (use the csa calculator to check how much).

I'm afraid he's in for a nasty financial shock by the sounds of it. Gather together any information you have on finances before you go to see a solicitor.

Oh, and he will have to pay half the divorce costs too.

purplewithred · 08/09/2012 07:37

You can cope with his angry response by the way. It's just him venting, you are in control. Get counselling on how - relate should be able to help.

Offred · 08/09/2012 07:44

Don't be either. Be calm and reasonable but this means you need to be ok with pushing for what you are entitled to to support you and dcs in reality that isn't being nasty.

Offred · 08/09/2012 07:45

I think you could do with women's aid counselling tbh

Shenanagins · 08/09/2012 08:02

My advice is to go and see a lawyer and then get all divorce related communications to go via them.

I was an emotional wreck during mine but once i stopped all direct communications i was able to start coming to terms with it. also a lawyer will only deal in facts, keeping emotions out of it in order to get you a fair and reasonable settlement.

Lovingfreedom · 08/09/2012 08:57

Your solicitor will give you a best and worst case scenario for what you would expect to get. You'll aim for the best case, but settle somewhere in between. So you'll know what is reasonable and your husband will just have to deal with that. His solicitor, while acting in his interests, will also tell him what is reasonable, including that you are actually entitled to a share of assets whether he likes it or not.

Athendof · 08/09/2012 09:07

Ok, first things first... If you decide to follow the "nice" route he may not be willing to give you a fair share of the assets. If you decide to go the nasty way you may end up into a very costly legal battle that will need a log of financial and emotional resources and whose scars can well last you a lufe time.

So the question to ask yourself is how much are the assets worth? If the would provide you and your children with enough resources to get you on your feet, fight for it. Otherwise, cut back your loses and avoid anymore damage.

Athendof · 08/09/2012 09:08

Lufe? Life even!

Lovingfreedom · 08/09/2012 09:19

A good family lawyer will explain your options, free of charge. S/he will also give you quite a lot of information in that first visit, including around fees and what reduction you'll get, if any, from legal aid. It's in no way nasty to get a share of matrimonial assets. Things can get silly (and expensive) if you start arguing about ever single asset and insist on valuations of possessions (that probably aren't worth THAT much anyway) but as far as a share of any major assets, no question that it would be worth your while.

Both your solicitors will start at 50% each of property, pensions, all assets etc and then go from there. If you have the 3 DCs from the marriage then your portion could be higher.

Original poster

Halfcups · 08/09/2012 16:59

Wow I m so impressed with all your feedback. Thank you. I m just sorry to hear that so many of you have had such an experience. I am intimidated of him. I realise now more than ever I have to hold my nerve. Just thinking about it makes me shudder but still "what does nt kill you only makes you stronger....!"

OP posts:

Rowanhart · 08/09/2012 17:13

That house he's extending? It's half yours. But any loans he has taken out post separation are not. As is everything else he has.

Get to a solicitor and see what paperwork you can muster. Like:
Pension details (half yours)
Any life insurance
Savings
Property

It's not about being mean. It's about securing your kids future. Time to get shrewd head on. Get to a solicitor and get full economic disclosure.

And if it upsets him, unlucky.

panicnotanymore · 08/09/2012 19:54

First of all stop looking at assets as his. Matrimonial assets belong to both of you. In circumstances such as this a solicitor is essential as he seems very controlling in unwilling to face up to his obligations, and you are not in a position to stand up to him. Do not deal directly with him, go through a solicitor.

You are entitled to what you are entitled to. It is not about being nice or nasty.

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