Advice Re Toxic Mother

[Elephantshavewrinkles]

Background

I am 22 and still live at home. I have no kids yet but I can see me wanting a LO before long.
I simple can't afford to move out yet but am hoping to by this time next year and move in with my other half.

My mother is I believe toxic but I want your opinions about what to do.

Basically my mum is a well respected member of the community and to an outsider she is charismatic, chatty etc but to me she is quite rude.

firstly she calls me fat this has such a dramatic negative effect on my self esteem. She says I will die soon as I am so big. I do need to loose a bit maybe a stone but not loads and loads. She also says I never look nice because of my weight. If we go out for a meal (something I dislike with her) and I fancy a pud she will say such things as Oh you don't need that or you can't still be hungry.

She says that I always look like a tramp but then according to her. I never receive a complement ever about how I look.

My brothers civil ceremony is coming up. I brought a dress. She said that it was too much too dressy. Everone I have shown it to complements me and says it looks nice etc. Now I dont want to wear it and be judged.

I work as a LSA in a school. I love my job and I believe I am good at it. I am also doing a degree in my spare time. She thinks my job is pointless and that I am waisting my time doing it. she is also disappointed that I never went to uni at 18 so I could go into teaching s nothing I do now is good enough in her eyes.

I have loads more examples.

Is she quite bad or is it me.

I know this sounds harsh and mean but ignore your mom, she sounds like a bitch,

It sounds like you are being bullied even if your Mum doesn't realise she's doing it or even thinks she is just trying to 'help' you.

I identify with your situation although the details of my relationship with my Mum are different. She has had a knack of making me feel really bad, sometimes I've been better at ignoring it than others. At the moment I'm quite strong.

If you can get some help like counselling or going to a support group you might be able to make your boundaries a bit stronger. I went to Alanon Family Groups for years (initially because of my husband) and it helped with all my relationships.

I am old enough to be your Mum and I am still affected but not as badly as i was at 22.

Best of luck, Is x

Well I'm an LSA (and yes I did go to University and have a degree but didn't want to teach) and I don't consider our job pointless! Far from it!

Your Mum does indeed sound toxic, and I suspect the best thing you can do is to save to move away as soon as possible.. I have children your age and I would NEVER criticise them like that because I would never want to hurt them.

She sounds jealous.. you have a nice job, you are educating yourself, you can wear nice clothes and look good... try and ignore her as much as you can (I know it's hard..my father was toxic and it has taken me 44 years to give up on trying to please him)

Hang in there...

I wouldnt say shes toxic, more like downright abusive.

Is moving out a possibility? I doubt there is very little you could say to her that would make her change, so moving out might be your best option (though I know how difficult it is!!)

I'm glad to say most of what your mum has said to you is exactly what my mum has said to me. I was obese, my skin is awful, my clothes are awful.

Well I was over weight, but not obese, my skin is fine and I support my self while doing full time uni. So my money goes on bills. Not the latest fashion.

I say glad because i want You to understand that it is not you with the problem. But her. There is a script these toxic mothers use in order to control our behavior. And it was so wonderful for me to realize that it wasn't me.

The dress you want to wear probably make you look wonderful. But she doesn't want you looking wonderful. She wants you to look awful, or dowdy because that fits in with how she wants you to be. Why? Who knows. So she can get sympathy and attention from her friends about what a disappointment you are. Or she just needs someone to look worse then her to make her feel better about her self. Keep you miserable so she can feel great about herself.

I advise you move into a share house as soon as possible if you can't move in a place of your own. You need to keep positive people in your life and start limiting your contact with her. And anyone else who makes you feel like this.

Oh and don't be surprised when you tell her you are moving out. That she tells you you can't afford it. Or it's a big mistake. Or you will be back because you won't be able to make it.

You need to keep reminding yourself that she does not see the you that everyone else sees. And that you is wonderful. Now you just have to see it too.

What Aussiebean wrote.

Its not you, its her. She is transferring all her bullying crap onto you to make you feel bad; its about power and control. How much do you know of her own childhood, I would put money on it that it was abusive as well.

It is NOT your fault she is this way, her own birth family caused that damage to happen.

She is a toxic parent and such abusers also can be plausible to those in the outside world. Its a carefully cultivated image.

I would establish firm boundaries with regards to her and move out as soon as possible. A flat share or renting would be better than being with her now, you need to surround yourself with positive people and not people who want to do you down constantly.

I would read Toxic Parents written by Susan Forward and also look at the "well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on these pages.

Move out. I think there is a natural cut-off point after which parents and children should not be under the same roof and you've reached it. Don't know why you 'can't afford' your own place but you need to shift heaven and earth to make it so you can afford it. Share a flat, be a lodger, live in a cardboard box ... whatever it takes you have to get some distance between you or she'll keep treating you like a 10 year old..

"Is she quite bad or is it me."

She's quite bad but you're also taking what she says far too much to heart. Can I suggest....

'You're fat'.... 'Fuck off'
'Don't like your dress'... 'Fuck off'
'Your job is pointless'.... 'Fuck off'.

Might get the message through better than getting upset.

Cogito, that's a very flippant response to someone who is clearly very hurt and confused.

OP, I agree with others - your mother does indeed sound toxic. She sounds jealous of you and determined to keep you 'in your place'. I'm sure you do look great in that dress and I'm sure she can see it too but she feels threatened by it. It's more comfortable for her if you are feeling bad about yourself. My mother used to do this with my sister and to a lesser extent me. My sister has always been larger than me and my mum just made her life hell when we were growing up, regularly drawing attention to my sister's size and treating her like a freak. My sister still hates how she looks, has a secret eating disorder and spends a fortune on cosmetics to try to change how she looks. It's really sad.

I moved away from my parents (to a different country) when I was 20 and I was without a doubt the single best thing that I have ever done for myself. if at all possible, move out from her home. It's a scary thing to do at first but you will really start to blossom when you get to make your own decisions on a daily basis.

What Cogito said... Why do you care what your mother says? If you like the dress, then wear it, if you enjoy your work then be more assertive about it. if your mother is always negative then don't listen to her.

Think of it this way, if a friend was bringng nothing but criticism and sorrow in your relationship you would dump them. Blood ties don't give family the right to exploit the good will of their children. Put up a defense mechanisms, don't listen to her. No need to be rude but simply smile, nod and do whatever you intended on doing anyway.... be more assertive and try to like yourself a little, your mum will find it harder to upset you the more you like yourself and the less you pay attention to what she thinks! or retreat behind the "if you can't say anything kind then don't say anything at all" wall of defense....

You could be my younger sister. My mother is the same - I classify her as a good person, crap parent - she is held (justifiably) in high regard by her friends and the local community. As a mother, she sucks!

I left home at 19 to escape but it sounds like you're taking the path my younger sister has chosen - my sister is studying uni full time and works part time for "pocket money" (ie. pays her own fuel for the car and clothes, and a bit of going out money) but she can't afford to move out until she graduates and is in a full time job with a wage to match. I'm assuming you're in the same, or a very similar, position.

Basically, IGNORE YOUR MOTHER!! Everytime she says something - eg. that dress doesn't suit you - reply (in your head!) to yourself, but X, Y and Z have told me it really suits me. "You don't need that pudding" - but I had salad for lunch/went to the gym/did an exercise dvd... etc. I think you get the idea - that is a coping mechanism I have developed and it helps me.

You can't change your mother and at least you have realised that SHE is the one with a problem and HER issues are about HER - not about you, her comments to you are a symptom of HER problems(s).

Good luck! And keep focused on your plans with studying/work/moving out - it will get much better once you leave home.

"Cogito, that's a very flippant response to someone who is clearly very hurt and confused."

It's not at all flippant. Most of us take what our mothers say seriously and if the mother in question happens to be abusing her position then the choices are 'get upset' or 'give as good as you get'. The expletives might need modifying but the principle is very sound. "I don't care what you think any more"

I do plan to move out next year. My other half and I are saving up so we can move in together. We have been together 6 years she doesn't approve of him.
I can't help but get upset by my Mum and what she says I don't snap back because that makes things 100X worse.

Worse than the name calling is the fact she goes through my cupboards when I am out. She will re arrange it to how SHE thinks I should have it for example I don't hang up jumpers I fold them and place them the shelf in my wardrobe she will move them and hang them up. I have no place to keep anything safe except my car. She opens my post ect. I have literally no privacy. Other half says I should say something to her.

Thanks for the replies they have helped!

'I can't help but get upset by my Mum and what she says I don't snap back because that makes things 100X worse'

You can't help your feelings. Getting upset is not a choice, it's a reaction and it's perfectly understandable in this situation. With the way you describe your mum, she would likely become ultra defensive at the first hint of being criticised - you would be made to feel like a monster and her behaviour would continue or intensify. I don't blame you for wanting to avoid that if you feel it would be a possibility.

I feel for you OP, I really do. As hevak said, well done on recognising that it's her who has the problem, not you. If you think it would help, google 'narcissistic personality disorder'. Both my parents have this and when I started reading about it, it explained so much of what was going on and helped me to stop blaming myself for never being good enough. I'm not saying your mum does have NPD for sure, but you may well see similarities.

Moving out will be the best thing ever because it will make it so much easier for you to set boundaries in the relationship. In the meantime though, going through your personal stuff is not on - do you feel you could ask/tell her not to touch things that are clearly yours, like your clothes and your post?

Elephants your mother sounds quite like mine. I'm in my forties and moved out of my parents home when I was 21. She used to go through my cupboards and open mail. I still remember how horrible it made me feel, all these years later.

You will be so much better when you move out and get some distance between you both. Is there any chance you could move out earlier than next year - even if it means you getting a smaller place with your partner?

In the meantime, would she let you put a lock on your door? Could you get your post redirected elsewhere?

The comments hurt, and they will hurt you for as long as she makes them. I don't think there is any easy answer for how to not let them bother you, although I think it can help to try to understand why she does it. Maybe she is jealous of aspects of your life, expecially the aspects she can't control?

Just remember, she is not a nice person. She puts on her fake front for the neighbours, family and community, but the real her is the nasty one that you see. You are better than her, you don't owe her anything, not even the brainspace to store her bitchy comments.

Hi elephant.

Another small bit of advice I can give you about your partner. My DF is wonderful and his family is wonderful and he really didn't get how awful my mum could be. It took him a long time to accept that mothers can be awful people. So be prepared for him to not quite get it. Not at first anyway.

You will get that from a lot of people. 'but she's your mother' 'you only get one' you should respect her' blah blah. It's really hard to talk and get understanding from people who have never experienced it.

That's why mumsnet is great. You realise that this is wrong and you don't have to put up with it. And it's ok and there is nothing wrong with you. The big one for me was that I wasn't alone.

I don't advise talking to her about the mail. She won't get it. You can try, but don't get upset if she dismisses you.

As for dealing with her from now til you move out. I would advise you only talk to her about basic things. So the weather, something you saw on tv, what an old school friend is up. Don't tell her anything that means something to you. Don't give her any ammunition.

If she starts in at you on something. Then wait for her to finish, and then say something non committal. Like. 'i will think about it' 'thats interesting' 'I didn't think of it that way'. And then promptly change the subject.

'oh really, I didn't think about it that way. Hey did you hear it might snow next week?'

Remember. Try your best not to take it personally. I know it's hard, she is your mum, they are not supposed to be that way. Unfortunately we don't have the loving kind.

Good luck.

"I don't snap back because that makes things 100X worse"

How can it be worse? The reason you feel so crap is because you're bottling up your feelings whilst letting someone else trample all over you. If a stranger in the street told you you looked fat, ugly and had terrible dress sense you'd tell them where to get off, no doubt. Don't hold back and maybe your mum will respect you more?

'Don't tell her anything that means something to you. Don't give her any ammunition'

I use this strategy with my parents - they have such blurry boundaries that they used to try to 'take over' my thoughts and feelings and experiences and this is the only way I can preserve what's mine. It's terribly sad though. It's natural to want certain things from your mum - she's not just any other person to you, she's much more important than that. It's so painful to want her attention and her approval and for her to really see you for the person you are. The thought that she may not be able to give you what you need is so difficult

I disagree cogito.

When every I stood up to my mum, it only proved to her what a horrible person I was. How disrespectful I was. How stupid I was. All because I wasn't doing what she told me to do.

If the ops mum is a narc. Then it will only make it worse.

I think your mum is trying to help you the way she knows or how. I don't think she wants to hurt you on purpose. Can you talk to your dad about what she is doing to your self esteem?

But at least, when you're standing up for yourself and fighting back, you've got the satisfaction and self-respect of knowing you are giving as good as you get rather than creeping around apologetically trying to please someone that doesn't give a stuff about your feelings. Might not change their behaviour one iota & might be an exercise in futility, but it stops you seeing yourself as a victim.

Agree Aussiebean. Narcs cannot handle any criticism, nothing that even sounds like criticism can be tolerated by them. From what OP has said about her mum, I would guess that any open discussion of her concerns would make her living situation even more intolerable.

Your mum sounds truely toxic and has no regards for your feelings whatsoever.
I believe a mother should never insult her child, if mothers have worries there are better ways of putting them across.

Keep saving, and hopefully one day soon you will be able to move out because if you stay where you are your self esteem will continue to plummet.
Either that or you need to stand up to her.
Say to her "did you mean to sound so rude?" and "i quite like this dress on me" and "im of normal size, i don't need a lecture".

It amazes me that people that are pillars of the community and adored are normally those that are horrid behind closed doors!
Keep smiling and don't let her harsh words enter your mind

If the ops mum is a person who is capable of empathy and self reflection, then standing up to her is doable.

If, however, she is a narc then standing up to her will do no good. Believe me I tried.

There is a good chance from what the op said she is a narc. The constant critisim. The lack of respect for her privacy. The not listening.

I am afraid the op is just beginning to embark on a very long and painful road of understanding just how much she has been damaged by her mother.

I journey I don't wish on anyone. Luckily you are starting early.