Is it worth breaking up my family?

[InelegantlyWasted]

DP went out yesterday, as he does most weekends. He was drinking heavily most of the day. He came home at about 2am. He made a lot of noise, crashing about and falling over. This woke up our DS, and I went into his bed to sleep with him for reassurance.
At about 3.30am DP started making more noise, staggering about, going to the loo, being sick, turning lights on and off etc.
When DS and I got up at 7am he had gone to bed. There was vomit all over the armchair and the floor in the front room, more in the bathroom and a massive pile of it on our bedroom floor.
I cleaned up in the front room and the bathroom, the smell in the bedroom was so awful I couldn't bear it. DP was fast asleep.
I couldn't wake him before I had to go to work this afternoon and TBH I wasn't happy leaving a four year old with someone in that kind of state. I managed to get MIL to have DS so he could sleep it off.
I got home tonight and it's as if nothing had happened. A cursory attempt has been made to clean up the sick in the bedroom but there is a horrible stain. No apology, no explanation, no thanks for finding a babysitter. And there's a half eaten Chinese takeaway just left all over the kitchen.
I could cry, I really could. This isn't a one off either, he drinks himself into oblivion most weekends. I just want him to leave, but I don't know how to tell him. What a mess.

I find it hard after exp to contextualise more normal alcohol use. I was in touch with an old flame a whole back and I considering dating him. He told me he had been to the pub one night and had a few drinks with friends. I immediately felt v anxious and uncomfortable and well threatened! This was a really normal bloke I've known longer than my exp who I have shared loads of nights out - and hangovers with yet I panicked at a man using alcohol - even in moderation. I know now that for all exps minimising of the problem that actually - it was a huge problem and not normal
Exp always deflected and said I wanted to stop him going out and that I was controlling blah blah. I replied that I wouldn't mind if he was out a few nights a week if he could come home at about 11 and not wet the bed- not much to ask! He could not abs so would abstain forints them just do it again.
I also could not get through to him that as adults we ought to be making choices based on whether they detrimentally affect others but it was hopeless. Whoever is dating exp now -he will pee all over you - and your bed and expect you to be ok with it - best of luck.

Well done OP. Thae fact that you don't feel sick, and probably are feeling like a weight has been lifted shows that you are doing entirely the right thing.

I'm sure it is hard as nobody wants to have to go through this kind of thing. But just keep in your head that it is for a more positive future for you and your DS.

I have spent today mainly worrying about things! Most of all my DS. He starts school next week, I'm really worried that couple with me and his dad splitting up is going to cause him some kind of irreversible psychological damage! Stupid, I know.
I also spoke to my parents about it this afternoon. Bless them, they try so hard to be supportive, but I think that my mum thinks that this is a really rash and ill thought out decision and that I am going to regret it in the future. I think she is worried that I will struggle for money and that DS and I will be reduced to poverty.
Not sure how ExP (feels very strange to type that!) is feeling about it all. I spoke to his mum earlier and he hadn't been in touch with her to tell her though. He did however, within half an hour of me talking to him last night, manage to update his FB relationship status from "in a relationship" to "single". WTF is that all about?

op - my ex did that - the fb i mean!
if it helps my dd is totally fine 6 months after split (she was a couple of weeks after). we are not in poverty - there are tax credits etc get the forms asap. school will be a good distraction for your ds - as long as his mum is in better shape he will be fine. dd is happy because home is now a safe place where she doesn't witness rows or chaos or anything inappropriate whatsoever. a few weeks post split her bedtimes and sleeping settled right down a long with a few other behaviour things. she is a dream child now with me and is cheerful and sunny all the time. you did the right thing x

My DF was an alci all his life. Apparently my mother was told after 10 years or so of living with it that the only thing that might force him to change was if she left him. Unfortunately she didn't.

So OP you might be doing him a favour in the end, if he stops drinking. But I don't mean have him back if he did stop.

crackcrack thanks for such a lovely reassuring post. I am hoping school will be a good distraction, he's a bit nervous about starting but I'm sure he'll be right as rain in a week or two. I just hope I can keep the family home on to give him a sense of stability

Tonight has just been awful. I feel completely wrung out.
He came home earlier this evening and said he wanted to talk and try and sort things out. He said that when I asked him to leave yesterday he was really shocked and he had no idea I felt this way.
He said that because I hadn't told him that his behaviour was out of order he hadn't thought he was doing anything wrong. He said he does everything he can for me and our son. He said he thinks about me all the time and that he's always buying me presents to show me how much he cares about me.
He said he doesn't have a drink problem and that he doesn't have a gambling problem. This is in spite of gambling up to £1000 a week on occasions. He said all the money he gambles is his own and never mine, and if he does cut into my money to do it he makes sure he always wins it back and replaces it.
He cried a lot and I felt really terrible. He said that if he had to leave he would never have enough money to live anywhere nice and that he would have to live in a bedsit and that our son would never want to spend anytime with him. He cried because he wants to tuck our son into bed every night and if I make him leave he won't be able to do that. He made me feel like a truly awful human being for having asked him to move out.
So I went away to have a think and in the end I offered him an ultimatum. I said that I would take him back and we could try again on the condition that he never had another alcoholic drink. Ever. I asked him to choose between me and the drink. And he chose the drink.
Now he says that if I want him to go I have to let him take over as our sons primary carer do he can receive the child benefit and then he can apply for a council flat. What the hell do I do now?

You need some headspace away from him, InelegantlyWasted. I don't think you can see clearly how completely bizarre your post is.

He said all the money he gambles is his own and never mine, and if he does cut into my money to do it he makes sure he always wins it back and replaces it.
Or the lie that every gambler tells themselves. Ignore.

I asked him to choose between me and the drink. And he chose the drink.
Now he says that if I want him to go I have to let him take over as our sons primary carer so he can receive the child benefit

I hardly need write a comment on the absurdity of that statement. He chooses to drink but also wants your son. For the child benefit.

Is it not blindingly obvious that you and your ds would be better off away from daily contact with this person? I mean of course it isn't blindingly obvious to you - how could it be when you're living it day by day? But what you do is you say "I am not prepared to consider joint residency of our son whilst you continue to drink heavily, as you have indicated you intend to do. Please leave."

He came home apparently to try and 'reason' with you, but in reality is prepared to make absolutely no changes or compromise on any point of your concerns. Btw, it is very unwise to try and force an alcoholic to stop drinking 'for you'. It's impossible for them to do so on that basis and there's a (somewhat controversial) concept of a 'dry drunk', which is basically an alcoholic who isn't actively drinking but isn't actively recovering either. Often the dry drunk will be very angry and resentful at the world in general for stopping him or her drinking, and particularly with the person who he or she perceives as the reason they aren't allowed a drink.

I've a feeling this post may be regarded as too harsh - so I'll end by quoting my first post and wish you well, InelegantlyWasted: Time for you to improve your ds' expectations of family life.

Oh you poor, poor thing, Inelegantly - listen, there are the three magic Cs of alcoholism that people who live with alcoholics need to learn, understand, and absolutely repeat to themselves 200 times an hour.

You did not CAUSE it
You cannot CURE it
You cannot CONTROL it

Of course you feel terrible when he cried. You love him, you care about him, you want him to be happy.

By contrast, what he loves is what he chose: the drink

Now, on what planet does "I chose to be gambling and alcohol over our family. Now you must give me primary care over our vulnerable son" sound like the response of a rational, loving parent?

What he loves is the drink.
What he thinks about is the drink.
What he values is the drink
What he's chosen is the drink.

It's your job to protect yourself, and your son, from someone who has chosen the drink instead of you both

He might dry out.
He might never stop drinking and gamble himself into serious debt.
He might end up in a gutter hugging a bottle of furniture-polish and then suddenly see the light, then spend the rest of his years a reformed man.

You will never, ever know while you are enabling him drinking and gambling.

You can only do what you CAN do: get him out of the house, stop/freeze/close all accounts that are in your name as well as his, and start talking to solicitors about access, maintenance, and divorce. He's chosen the drink and the gambling, my love - and his addictions are going to get worse before they get better (If they ever get better).

So, so sorry this has happened to you. Now you need to be a bit ruthless, for you and your lovely little boy's sake.

Thanks Trib. No, it's not too harsh. It's what I needed. A fair assessment of what he said to me from an outsiders perspective.
He made me so confused. I didn't expect him to get so upset. He seems genuinely terrified that our relationship might be over. He believes I am being totally unreasonable in not giving him a chance to redeem himself.
He promised that he could control his drinking. He said that he doesn't drink during the week. And if he went out at the weekend he would only have a few drinks if that would make me happy. When I said that I didn't believe that he would be able to do that he said I wasn't being fair because I wasn't willing to give him a chance.
Part of me feels so dreadfully sorry for upsetting him so much. I want him to be happy and settled. But the other part of me just wishes he'd fuck the fuck off and leave me and my DS to get on with our lives without his disruptive influence.

Oh me me poor me!!! Op, his reaction was so childish and selfish - no responsibility for his actions taken - just a panic that his quality of life might be reduced - HIS is what he was worried about, not ds who is actually the important one.
He has made a mess of his life all by himself - no one made him drink or gamble, only himself.
Still finding this startlingly familiar though. Exp initially agreed to separate but notice out saying he needed to wake up with dd every day etc. Well tough. Dd is with me and he got a house etc and there's a contact plan. Your exp is foot stamping to get his own way. Stay strong - he is not an appropriate carer for ds abs you know it x

he would only have a few drinks if that would make me happy

Nice tick in the box for making you an accomplice in his drinking. It cannot be about you, only him. Otherwise when he doesn't want to make you happy, such as when you have 'made him unhappy' for example (to be assessed by him) then he will be able to drink more.

Do talk to Al-Anon. Allow yourself to admit how serious this situation is; it will help you.

Well done for being strong. He needs to go. Now. He's clutching at straws at the moment and saying anything her can to make you feel guilty.

You and your lovely DS deserve so much better than him.

Listen to the part that wants him to fuck off. Make him fuck off. Think about how utterly ridiculous, selfish and entitled he is being - 'I am going to carry on drinking and gambling so leave your beloved son in MY care so I can get the child benefit money - which I will then spend on drinking and gambling rather than on food and clothing for your son.'

It's fine to dump him. It's fine to be single. HE has spoiled your relationship and your family life and the consequences for him are his problem. You are not responsible for an adult alcoholic, prioritise you and your child.

I gave my ex 4 years to get his act together wrt alcohol. He never managed it. What that amounted to was that dd wasn't important enough to him to sort himself out and act like a responsible father. As her main carer and protector, I wasn't important enough either to have my basic welfare prioritised

Op lots of us here have been in your shoes. I took my ex back many times with promises of cutting down only to wish I'd taken the chance to be free of it

The only thing that might make him make the right life choices is to kick him out, let him hit his rock bottom. Then you might be in a position to make a decision. Or you might decide he's not worth it.

Detach yourself from his alcohol and gambling problems. He's not doing it to upset you. He has a problem that only he can sort on his own

Wishing you the strength to keep you and your ds safe

£1,000 a week on occasions! Any time he has taken it out of your money he has won it back and replaced it!

Good grief.

I hope things are going ok for you OP.

Do you love him? From the sound of it you don't. It's alright to break up with someone on that ground alone you know.

I've been thinking about you, Inelegantly and wondering how you're getting on. Hope you and your DS are doing okay.

He's just guilt-tripping you and trying to frighten you.

He may curtail his boozing for a while, but it won't be forever, and he'll get back to pissing the bed and vomiting everywhere soon enough.

Stand firm. If he goes, then he is more likely to make the effort he needs to make to sort himself out. If he stays, he kows he can carry on after paying a bit of lip service to you.

Hi all
Well he's still here. He doesn't have the money to move out straight away and I didn't want my son to have to see me put his father out on the street with all his stuff in bin bags. Especially when he is going through the stress of starting at school this week.
I have opened a new bank account and am waiting to get my direct debits and salary moved across so I can separate our finances completely.
I have also told him not to come home if he is going to drink alcohol. He can find somewhere else to sleep if he is going to be drunk.
I'm not really sure where we go from here. I just keep going to work and taking my son to school and burying my head in the sand. I suppose I should think about what I'm going to do in the long term but it is difficult to summon up the energy sometimes.

I think you need to set yourself a date by which time he has to be gone, or you are in danger of this situation just sliding, normalising, and you'll find yourself still living like this in 40 years' time.

Can he not go and stay at his mum's?

I have given him until the end of Oct to get himself to counselling or to leave. Hopefully he will choose counselling.
His mum lives in a one bed house so he can't stay with her

He needs addiction counselling. I think you would probably benefit from counselling yourself too, in order to help you to remember what life is like without an addict in the house, and to strengthen you and to help you guard against becoming involved with another addict or abuser, to recognise the red flags.

Is there a chance you could do that?