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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Is this sexual assault?

58 replies

ramadsho · 21/08/2012 07:40

upset so please bear with me. Fast asleep when I woke to find my dh rubbing my bottom area between my buttocks. This has upset me in the cold light of day, but at the time I just moved away and he stopped. I told him and he became angry when I told him that it had upset me in the cold light of day. please help.

OP posts:
TheDoctrineOfEnnis · 21/08/2012 10:09

So that is another boundary OP, he doesn't respect your right to go to sleep when you are tired.

Do you have children?

Original poster
ramadsho · 21/08/2012 10:11

No, we don't have children.

OP posts:
Original poster
ramadsho · 21/08/2012 10:13

See I do know where people are coming from when they think it may not be that big a deal, because perhaps in an otherwise loving trusting relationship it is not that big a deal.

OP posts:
TheDoctrineOfEnnis · 21/08/2012 10:16

Exactly ramadsho. Also I think some people missed that your H was angry at you being upset from your first post.

Do you want to stay in the relationship?

tzella · 21/08/2012 11:16

They only think it wasn't a particularly big deal as you hadn't mentioned the other stuff. Not accusing you of drip-feeding as it's the nature of these things to come out gradually Smile

It doesn't sound like he respects you very much. Do you consider him a bully? It sounds like he is Sad

laidbackflat · 21/08/2012 11:23

On the original question, yes - it is indecent assault. The relationship context is not strictly relevant. If somebody touches you sexually when you haven't given consent then that person has committed an indecent assault (unless they reasonably believe that you have given consent).

On the wider issue Ennis and tzella ask the right questions - do you feel that you want to continue in this relationship?

PooPooOnMars · 21/08/2012 11:38

He'll also grab my hand to touch his genitals. He thinks that it is not a grab, just guiding. I have told him over and over not to do this.

Is that during sex or at other times?

WaitingForMe · 21/08/2012 11:53

This is a big deal OP.

My DH gropes me and will put my hands on his genitals and it's a consensual part of our relationship. You don't like it so it shouldn't be part of yours. This isn't about the action and who does or doesn't like it, it's about someone disrespecting the wishes of their partner.

It isn't assault when my DH does it to me but it is when he does it to you.

PooPooOnMars · 21/08/2012 11:55

This isn't about the action and who does or doesn't like it, it's about someone disrespecting the wishes of their partner.

It isn't assault when my DH does it to me but it is when he does it to you.

I agree, well put. Wasn't sure how to put that into words.

BlackOutTheSun · 21/08/2012 11:58

op, It doesn't matter if other people think that it isn't a big deal.

The fact is that you do, he should NOT do anything that you don't like.

Triffiddealer · 21/08/2012 12:06

If you don't have anal sex with your partner and it's clear that you don't want to, him rubbing your anus (which I think you are saying he did) whilst your asleep is deeply creepy - it doesn't matter if it's assault or not. He is treating you like a piece of meat, not a human being worthy or respect.

OP - you are clearly unhappy about a lot of things in the relationship. Why are you staying if there are no children? Are you scared to leave?

AGilchrist · 21/08/2012 12:12

Well that's a different matter. If you have told him not to.
Nothing you have said would be sexual assault in marriage. and imo, in a loving, trusting relationship I don't believe you have to have verbal consent everytime. Unless that is a per agreed action.
However there is clearly more to this. Which is why its hard to give an answer based on the OP. Based on OP, alone, I would say no its not.
Based on further information, it possibly could be.

its difficult to say what is or is not sexual assault with in a relationship.

AnyFucker · 21/08/2012 12:13

OP, you seem unhappy and unsettled in your relationship

this incident has the feel of "last straw" about it

that is a perfectly reasonable reaction to have, in the circumstances you describe. The "label" you seem to want to apply to it, is subjective as you have found on this thread. Personally, I feel the touching is far too intimate to be a simple consensual invitation to have sex, even more so that you were asleep when he did it

you have our permission to end the relationship if that is what you want...you don't need anyone's approval though

leave him if you want to

dranksinatra · 21/08/2012 12:13

That's a voluntary "leave the bastard".
Respect!

OxfordBags · 21/08/2012 12:21

If you were asleep, then sexual touching is an assault because you cannot in any way to consent to it. Consenting to something whilst conscious does not imply consent when unconscious. If he had squeezed your bottom affectionately whilst getting into bed, say, I wouldn't see that as too much of a big deal, BUT the fact that he was rubbing between your buttocks is what makes me feel weird about this. It's not sexy or pleasant, it's odd and degrading. It really sounds to me like he is controlling and was pissed off you'd gone to sleep before him and decided to wake you up in a way that was humiliating and irritating, ie rubbing between your bum cheeks, and also a way that is quite subtly nasty so if you make a fuss you appear to be weird, hysterical, mean, etc. It's a cleverly degrading form of control and not very nice IMO. And it sounds from your other posts that he is controling and not respectful.

Losingitall · 21/08/2012 14:47

So when my oh wakes me with oral sex it's assault? And vice verca?

Context IS important!

With the other issues now raised by the OP then this isn't a normal sexual and healthy relationship. That's the context and if I were the OP I would be leaving.

AndieMatrix · 21/08/2012 15:18

Here's my opinion: if it feels like assault then it was assault.
I don't think anyone in a healthy relationship that is obviously comfortable with being woken in a sexual way can really compare their own experiences. My DP would never wake me up by touching my anus as he knows that's a "no fly zone". Also, you should be able to express to your partner that you did not like something they did without them getting angry with you (this for me is the main point in the OP) a partner who had genuinely made a mistake with the inappropriate gesture would apologise, not be annoyed.
Ramadsho - May I suggest you go onto the Women's Aid forum where people will be more understanding of your situation as a whole and you can also speak to an advisor about how to leave your apparently destructive relationship.

OneMoreChap · 21/08/2012 15:35

Losingitall Tue 21-Aug-12 14:47:10
So when my oh wakes me with oral sex it's assault? And vice verca?

Actually, yes. Because you haven't consented. Because you are asleep you can't consent and they have no right to presume consent for that occasion.

Talking about previous partners the other day I remembered a rather disturbing incident from my first year with 3rd GF.

I was once woken from a sound sleep by my GF who wanted to have sex. I didn't want to, as I was exhausted and somewhat sore. I told her no, and tried to push her away, and then gave up. She stimulated me, climbed on and continued. Yes, I had an orgasm. No, I didn't consent. I went back to sleep.

The following morning she just said she wanted to see if we could do it 5 times. I was very sore, and a bit pissed off, but didn't think too much about it as I was besotted with her. That was sexual assault and if it had been the other way round, it would have been rape.

If you're unhappy with him, finish it. You can do without worrying if you've been assaulted. Usually, if you think you have, you have. And always, if you think you have, that should be it.

solidgoldbrass · 21/08/2012 15:38

If you've already got experience of him ignoring your wishes then it's not remotely surprising you found this particular act distressing. it sounds like it was meant to be distressing. I agree with the posters who suggest a chat with Women's Aid.

TheDoctrineOfEnnis · 21/08/2012 15:40

Yes it was assault onemorechaP. I am sorry that happened to you,

OneMoreChap · 21/08/2012 15:48

Thanks TDOE I suffered no great ill effects, just said don't do it again... we had a very happy sex life usually and that was a one-off [I think so she could show off]. I stayed with her for another year, and still think of her fondly from time to time.

I mentioned it because it rattled me when I thought about it, and you get the "Oh, so that's what they mean when they ask was I assaulted".

I've always believed that if someone says it's rape it's rape (save vanishingly few exceptions), but I hadn't really twigged the consent/non-consent, was it Ok type of questioning.

I hadn't consciously thought about until the other night (and it's well over 30 years ago.)

DW & I have both woken each other up without consent and enjoyed it, and I have never refused consent after Smile

AGilchrist · 21/08/2012 15:49

I am sorry I don't agree that losingitall example is assault. Within a relationship were both partners enjoy it, it is not assault.
My dh KNOWS I like it because I have told him.
What about couples who partake in rape fantasies? Is that actual rape, no. Some of them jump the other and take them without consent at that moment. However if the couple know and love each other and know what the other likes but backs when asked or actions show this then it is not assault.
Are people saying that everytime they have sex with a long term partner, they give verbal consent?
Saying people are being assaulted by their dps/dhs when they are not is not helpful to the OP.
The OP feels her his and assaults her. I would say putting her hand on his groin even when she has said she doesn't like it, is assault.
That's the line.

TheDoctrineOfEnnis · 21/08/2012 15:52

I meant that what onemorechap's partner did to him was assault, if that wasn't clear.

Sorry OMC.

TheDoctrineOfEnnis · 21/08/2012 15:54

Not for losingitall as she and her partner are consenting.

OneMoreChap · 21/08/2012 16:08

Actually, AGilchrist and TheDoctrineOfEnnis losingitall's example could be assault.

She hasn't given consent at the time.

She may not mind and then enthusiastically consent and no probs. The one day she says no... or he says no - it is assault.

Are people saying that everytime they have sex with a long term partner, they give verbal consent? No, I got ripped a new one for this in the past. Consent doesn't have to be verbal, although it is best if it is. Enthusiastic participation could be deemed as consent.

It is impossible to give general consent. That's why we have - and quite rightly - the offence of rape within marriage.

Always always ask was the cluestick I got beaten with

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