Shocked and sad at number of emotionally abusive relationships .....

[Lottapianos]

.. but very glad to be a part of MN!

Both my parents are narcs and I'm 2 years into weekly psychotherapy sessions trying to unravel the mess they have created in my head. It's slow, painful, agonising, frustrating work but I have made a lot of progress with regard to managing my guilt and putting boundaries in place. I now see myself as a separate person from my parents, with my own needs and feelings. I no longer see it as my job to make them happy. A long way still to go but I'm getting there.

The thing I struggle with most at the moment is the loneliness. Sometimes it feels like everyone else has a 'normal' family - Mothers Day and Fathers Day are bad for this. Xmas is the absolute worst. Reading the Relationships boards on here is such a support to me - there are so many people on here who are going through similar to me, and lots who are a lot further along the journey than I am.

It's just really sad that there are so many dysfunctional, abusive, messed-up parent-child relationships around. I work with little children and parents in RL and I see such frequent examples of emotionally neglectful/abusive parents - it makes me really angry and heartbroken. I had a violent relationship with a man several years ago and am very clued up about the prevalence of DV but it shocks me how many people have come from unsupportive, unhealthy, neglectful families.

I'm so glad I found MN - I can't imagine what I did before I discovered online forums

Mumsnet and Lundy Bancroft are my saviour too OP

A lot of marriages can not be what they seem ,under the surface.Not meaning mine I hasten to add.
Twas always thus I suppose,not that that makes things any better.
Can I ask op,how does a marriage with 2 narcs work.I assumed,after reading about narcs on MN,[dont know any in RL I dont think[,that if narc is all about me me me,how do 2 manage to live together?
And what a nightmare for you.

Ah yes, I hear Lundy Bancroft raved about on here. Must get myself tooled up

'Can I ask op,how does a marriage with 2 narcs work'

I would almost give a kidney to anyone who could explain my parents' marriage to me amillionyears. I have no idea. I can't figure either of them out and it drives me potty. My therapist says I may never understand

They loathe each other and have done for as long as I can remember. They have been married for nearly 34 years and will never split up because of the 'must keep up appearances' factor and also because they are both devout Catholics. They have literally gone months without speaking to each other, while living in the same house. My dad messes around and my mum knows about it, and has confronted him about it, but it all got swept under the carpet like everything else.

While I was living at home, my mum would have daily bitching sessions with me and my sister, filling us in on all my dad's shortcomings, since I was about 11 years old. Very healthy and constructive I stopped listening years ago. I feel so sorry for both of them but I'm sick and tired of their crap, to be honest.

I completely agree with you that relationships often look very different beneath the surface.

wow Im stunned Lottapianos
Dont know what to write tbh
Look after yourself

Thanks amillionyears It's really helpful to hear other people's responses to my family situation - their awful narc behaviours have made it difficult for me to trust my own feelings and I sometimes still have moments where I can't help minimising their behaviour and convincing myself that they weren't 'that bad'. My friends and DP are horrified by their behaviour too.

Therapy is helping more than I can say and I'm detaching from them bit by bit. It's the most painful thing I've ever done though

Have you seen or read any of the narc threads on MN?

I think it is ok to hate peoples behaviour whilst still carrying on loving them ifyswim
Easy to write,must be appalling to do.

Yes, I often read the Stately Homes thread and the other (all too frequent) narc threads and I'm reading a couple of books that my therapist recommended. It helps so much knowing that other people have been through the same thing and survived.

Does your work help or hinder your own perspective on life?

Really interesting question amillionyears - a bit of both I suppose. I have decided not to have children for lots of reasons, including just not wanting to! Part of me would love to have my own family but I don't feel that the reality of family would be a positive experience for me. I'm lucky that I have a great DP so I feel that we are a family by ourselves. By working with children, I feel like I get all the fun, uplifting stuff of being around children but I don't have any desire to have one of my own around me all the time IYSWIM.

I find myself feeling very angry at parents who are not following advice or taking responsibility for their child's welfare. I can manage it and not let it come through and stay professional but I guess I feel it very clearly from the child's POV.

Do you mind if I ask what your interest is in this area? Do you have a difficult family situation of your own? Feel free not to answer if too personal

My family life is fine.Most of my children are older now.
I also have a lot of relatives.
I just thought you needed to talk and vent things.
I have worked with vulnerable teenagers in the past.

From my personal point of view,if I was you,I thik I would find it difficult to do the work that you do.It might get me down too much.And I might end up seeing the world in a lot of grey ifswim.

I appreciate you listening amillionyears It is difficult working with parents having had my own messed up experiences of parenting in my family, feels a bit hopeless at times. I try to work within the limits of my role, doing the best I can and supporting people as best I can, without trying to be Superwoman!

I'm glad your family situation is healthy

fwiw,I think you would make a great parent.
It seems to me that you have learnt a whole heap of things not to do!
Good luck.

Interesting point, amillion, if I may hijack OP's thread for a minute. A key point of my inner-child therapy (I'd add John Bradshaw to Lundy on my essential bookshelf) was learning to appreciate children for the wonders that they truly are. Not having been treated as wonderful in my own childhood, and having had all my relationships with children patterned by the "blank sheet" model, it was very much a revelation for me. I love being around children because, each time I see the wonders in them, I also see the wonders in myself iyswim. That sounds totally crap but I'm not trying to write a thesis here!

Shades of grey are bloody fantastic when you're breaking out of a black & white world. In any case, I prefer to think of it as the rainbow between infra-red and ultra-violet

Feel free garlicnuts.I think I have run out of things to say!

amillionyears, that's very kind of you to say In my family 'script', my sister was the one who was 'good with kids' and I wasn't, so I'm glad I didn't follow my parents' messed-up ideas with that one!

garlicnuts, I haven't heard of John Bradshaw but he sounds great! I totally agree about appreciating children for who they are instead of trying to make them 'fit' into who we think they should be. That word 'should' is a total killer. I'm going to look up his work and see if I can use it in the training that I deliver to other Early Years professionals, including the colleague I have who is obsessed with how 'different boys and girls are' Hopefully it will help me stop her putting people into boxes!

See how much wisdom you pack into a few lines?

xpost, Lotta! The book I referred to by John Bradshaw is Homecoming, which is heavy going in parts but great to do with a therapist's support. I think many of his 'tools' can be used in a wider context, too. I've linked to his Amazon page because his other, equally strong, titles might lend themselves well to your training.

It's lovely that you're creating positives out of the crappy hand you were dealt :)

Sounds really interesting garlicnuts, thanks

Reading this topic with great interest and a lot of comments have hit home. I've been having recent councilling (mostly connected to husband but inevitably issues with family have been touched on), so nerves are very raw and the blinkers are lifted. No idea what label my parents deserve but they are both not right in their heads.

Feeling a lot like I should have taken your route lotta and not had DD, I feel everyday like I'm screwing her up. There are times when I speak to her (especially regarding discipline) and I sound just like my Dad. . I'm trying so hard not to be either of my parents but no idea if I'm doing a good job of things. I'm so afraid of not getting it right. Are the John Bradshaw books worth reading in this situation or is there something else I could read that would help me?

Aw, Nini :( I haven't kept up with you lately, so don't know whether you're still with your husband? I think high tension (overt or not) between partners is bound to make kids nervy, which adds to the overall risk of hurtful communication. You may have already got How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk. In my experience, it blows less-than-functional relationships between parent & child right out of the water. There's also a companion Teens version, which I've not read but have seen many MNers recommend it enthusiastically.

Actually the techniques work fairly well with emotionally retarded adults too

I meant to say, I'm sure you're not getting it 'wrong' as you are aware of the pitfalls. I do know, though, how horrid it is to "feel like your father/mother" - I do both, quite rarely now - and am all in favour of adding more skills to the toolbox.

Hey garlic . Yes we're still together but doing an awkward dance around each other. We have our first couples counselling sesh next week which is a last ditch effort on my part. I know it's not recommended for people in my position but I at least want to try.

The book recommendation looks good, I will go out and get it. So so SO determined that DD won't end up like I have.

Marking my place as very interesting. Don't know if I'd be able to contribute anything tho, lol. You all sound really lovely!

OP, I have a narc mother, I only found out two months ago that my dad (who left when I was 10 and is now deceased) had fought her in court for custody of me and my brothers - I was brought up believing he never loved me. I am totally with you on Xmas etc and especially so now I am a single mum and even more on my own, although ex-dh's family were pretty dysfunctional also. I'm so sorry you had such a tough time xxx