Did your parents divorce or do you with they had?

[amigoingmadhere]

Did you parents divorce when you were young?

Did they stay together but the relationship was toxic? Do you think you were better off with them staying together or would it have been better if they had separated?

Please help.. is it worse to suffer the devastation of divorce when you are a young child, or to suffer the poisonous environment of warring parents and seeing the template of bad relationship models?

I think I know the answer already, but everyone around me seems to be telling me to stay married for the sake of the children.

Also, apart from any age differences, did you see a difference in your own background between your experience and that of your brother / sister? i.e. would boys suffer more than girls at the departure of the father from the family home?

thanks

Mine stayed together just because of me. They really shouldn't have. I grew up knowing they weren't like other parents and it took me years to realise why. They never rowed (too much emotion!) but my dad would sulk for days - he could go whole days without speaking to me or my mum. I heartily wish they had divorced but they've just had their golden wedding anniversary, which I think all of us found a little hard to swallow.

Staying together for the sake of children simply does not work.

My father was a violent bully. My mother, who is also bananas, worshipped him despite the beatings and insults and pretended he didn't beat us (even when she'd been there). I got the worst of it but, as children, we all used to wish they'd divorce. Dad died long after were all grown up. We met to share memories and discuss our funeral address. The shock on our partners' faces was something to see: although we managed to find some positives to put in the speech, our conversation was almost entirely about the fear that overshadowed our childhoods.

The only family member who misses him is my mother. Even she has some comprehension, now, of what her compliance did to her children. Between us we have chronic anxiety, depression, eating disorders and addictions. Two are in violent marriages, as I was. I followed the violent H with a mental abuser. Two of us are multiply divorced - the others should divorce, imo, but are too trapped in the family patterns. Every one of my numerous nephews & nieces has behavioural/psychological issues and some have already been hospitalised for them.

We are all above average intelligence and went to good schools, but I'm the only one who sat A-levels. I bunked off two of them due to anxiety; the others, seeing how I was treated during the exams, left school before finishing.

I've done ten years of therapy and am nowhere near finished with it yet. In common with most children of dysfunctional families, my challenges are to give myself the inner security that childhood should have given me, and to learn how to be 'normal' in my feelings, beliefs and actions. Although not all faulty families are violent as mine was, they do all hamper their children in terms of self-worth and happy, confident relationships. You're more likely to give your children these rights as a happy, confident single than as an unhappy, strained couple.

The main thing to bear in mind about splitting up is that your children could be exposed to third parties who may not have their best interests at heart - ie your ex's new partner (and her kids). While I completely accept some homes are so toxic that getting out is the only solution, if you're just talking about a standard bad relationship it's hard to imagine that could be as bad for a child as the realities of shared custody - shuttling backwards and forwards between two places that no longer feel like home, seeing your parent(s) paired off with new people who would generally have preferred it if you didn't exist. i know i'm painting a really bleak picture of the step parent relationship and obviously they're not always bad, as I'm sure people will be quick to say. The point is, once you've split from your husband, it's completely up to him who your children have to spend time with and you won't be there to step in if they get a hard time from his new partner -and kids if she has them. On top of which your children may not even tell you what goes on at their dad's place because they'll be so busy trying to accommodate what's happening to them they won't see it as cause for complaint until they go into therapy years later. ok so I'm talking from personal experience!! Ha, pretty obvious eh? I'm just trying to make a point and as you can tell it's one that I feel really strongly about. Don't forget, once you've split it will be too late to worry about any of this!

silvercat thanks - it really is important to hear the other perspective. I worry particularly about this situation- and you are right, once we are divorced I will have no control over these things.

So difficult because everyone on MN tells me to leave him, yet everyone in RL tells me to try to make things work. Situation is complicated as there are a number of factors that are wrong in the relationship.

Eldest ds is already showing signs of nervousness / distress, younger ds confused but v attached to his father. This is so hard - I just want to do the right thing by them.

everyone else- thanks, v helpful to hear your experiences and perspectives.

also difficult for me to know what the right course to take is (actually I think I know what the right course is but everyone seems to be advising me otherwise) as I don't even know if dh would be acrimonious or not. I know he is very much against the idea but when push came to shove I have no idea whether he would just face up to reality and deal with it (divorce) amicably for the sake of the children, or whether he would fight tooth and nail for everything, including custody (actually he has already told me that if I divorce him he will fight for custody).

I read some research (sorry, can't remember where or any proper details) saying that the stats on the harm that divorce does to kids aren't truly accurate as they lump all scenarios and situations under one umbrella term -"divorce".

Apparently, when a relationship has been very toxic and obviously unhappy for years, divorce can actually be a good thing for kids, and is actually seen by many of them as such - many feel relief and even joy at the end of conflict and the start of a new era. The real damage is apparently done when a marriage seems loving and happy and then one day, out of nowhere, it just implodes and anger and bitterness just appear, as if from nowhere. I can kind of understand this (not having experienced my own parents divorcing/separating although they are by no means blissfully happy in their marriage) because it then makes it very hard for the child to trust that other people in their life that they love (be it other family members or future romantic partners) won't just disappear. They don't expect warning signals to be present before someone goes and thus can constantly feel this may be about to happen.

That said though, I think a lot of kids are genuinely too young to really remember much of the harm, even if it did affect them badly at the time. I used to think that divorce always left scars on the kids but when I actually started asking my friends or boyfriends whose parents had divorced how they had been affected, many surprised me by saying they really didn't remember much about it. Of course, maybe they just didn't want to discuss it with me or else they'd pushed it to the back of their minds but I did get the impression they were being genuine.

that's interesting concernedcitizen - as you say, I wonder if, although they say they don't remember it, something in their personality was changed at the time of the divorce or in the years that followed - something they would not necessarily be aware of or be able to trace back but nevertheless still there (e.g. bottling feelings in / anxiety / aggression).. obviously these things could all be there if the child remained in the toxic environment if the parents didn't split.

And I completely agree with you that the umbrella term 'divorce' can cover so many situations and people that it is impossible to blindly say whether it is a good thing or not. That is why the more people that answer this question here the more I can get a better understanding of various experiences and circumstances, which would at least give me some valuable perspective.

My children with my ex have an extremely stable and happy home with me and my new husband and our twins. Their dad is less stable and has them for about 11/2 hours a week (so nothing). He has inappropriate friends, always takes them to the pub for his contact but this is one reason why his contact has been drastically reduced. If one parent cannot protect the dcs adequately from people who will harm them or introduce them to inappropriate things there are ways round that. Contact should always be as child focused as it can be.

My parents divorced when I was about 13 or 14 but had been separated since I was 12. I was very upset when they separated but this was because my husbands OW had been a family friend. I was incredibly angry with him and still feel like that has never been addressed and I wasn't given (by any adults) the chance to hash it out with him.

However, he was emotionally abusive to my mother which I knew but thought was normal. He was also physically abusive but I didn't know this until about 10 years later.

I love my dad but he's still always going to be the man who hit my mother and emotionally abused her. I don't think I can ever, or maybe even should ever, see past this.

I was SO glad that they divorced. My mother became a different person - happy, joyful, fun and not so worn down. I wish they had done it years before.

I think about this alot. I once considered divorce and did a lot of research and came to the conclusion that the tipping point had not been reached in my marriage for it to be ended in terms of being a parent. From what I read, basically, as long as there is no abuse (that includes bullying, financial abuse etc) kids are not interested in whether you are shagging or not. They just want a stable home. If you both can rub along OK then do.

There is so much research done on a child's psyche until they reach 5 years old and I can't remember the article but one psychologist's words on the subject firmed my resolve on staying with my husband. Children are ego centric, they won't notice your marriage if it is merely boring, not loving etc Give them the best possible start as that is your duty. Obviously, if it's a terrible and constantly tense atmosphere as one or both of you can't rise to that then it's better to split.

OP - strangers find it easier to say the drastic option as they often have an agenda (quite often a good one!) and they don't know you or your spouse and, critically, your children. Friends would hate to take a gamble with advice and see everyone hurt as they would feel responsible. That might explain why the advice is so polar!

Oh and a few years on from nearly splitting we are definitely rubbing along OK .

Sosomaman, I am glad you and your partner managed to sort out your differences. That is a great result for you and your dcs.

I totally agree with what you wrote here, from the perspective of a child whose parents where unhappily married: "From what I read, basically, as long as there is no abuse (that includes bullying, financial abuse etc) kids are not interested in whether you are shagging or not. They just want a stable home. If you both can rub along OK then do."

My parents were not perfect, but the one thing I respect and admire of them is that they put their family life and children's happiness before their own when we were growing up. There was no abuse in our household, I will add. My father dealt with it by spending a lot of time out of the house.

My parents divorced when I was 15. My mother finally got the courage after I kicked my father out of the house. My father was an alcoholic and my mother and father were in denial about how seriously his problem was affecting all of us.

I use to come home from school and find my father drunk and asleep in his chair every day. I used to have to wake him at a certain time for him to get himself together and cook dinner before my mother got home from work. One day I couldn't wake him from his drunken slumber on time and when he finally did wake he had a real go at me and I snapped. i told him what was what and told him to leave and that we'd all be better off without him. He left. Mum filed for divorce and I couldn't have been happier. With him gone the home was happier. This was my father's wake up call.

My father finally realised he had a problem and sought help. He got sober. When I was 17 my parents remarried. He did have a few slip ups and at one point almost drank himself to death, but with my mum's help and quick action he sobered up again. I now know my father suffered from severe bouts of depression. My parents were happy until his death when I was 20 (car accident - no alcohol involved.)

My parent's divorce saved our family.

Soso that research focuses on child development which I don't think is the only issue. Having an unstable living environment interferes with healthy child development this does not mean that a stable but unhappy and unhealthy relationship has no negative consequences for children. That is a big leap.

My aunt and uncle have just split up. They had not had sex for 22 years, were very good friends that stayed together for the children and because they are religious. My uncle basically realised the marriage was a mistake after their second child and completely withdrew intimacy. As a consequence my aunt was very unhappy and she tried to carry on but developed a drinking problem and all kinds of mystery psychological illnesses. She also had several nearly affairs which sometimes messed up her friendships because she couldn't live as an island.

The youngest also has mystery psychological illnesses and unexplained paralysis as well as problems with food and self harm, the eldest took on the role of parent in a lot of ways and is the "strong coping" one but i think this isn't great and is a sign of their difficulty living in the environment they did.

Children learn about relationships from watching their parents, it is well documented and is why children of abusive relationships often end up being abused/abusers.

That's not to say that people should split up whenever they encounter relationship trouble. If you are falling out and then work to come back together that's just a normal relationship, that is deciding to work on the relationship because you have children and doing that successfully, it isn't what I think of as "staying together for the children".

My poor cousins have found that aspect very difficult to deal with, they are extremely angry.

Offred, my parents are still together, but it is still a compromise for them. The old issues are still there, but they are older now and their children have left home, so the pressures are less. Theirs was not an abusive relationship, but I do not doubt they could have found more personal happiness/compatibility elsewhere.

I see them as an example of 'staying together for the children'.

The impact on my siblings and I of witnessing (and speaking to them about) their unhappy marriage is that we all waited a relatively long time before getting married and chose a lot more carefully than most people, to good effect.

That, I believe, is a good result all round.

But all relationships are compromises in some ways if they last a long time blueshoes. I don't think it is healthy or wise to stay living together as friends and pretending you are together for the sake of your children. That's what I see as "staying together for the children". If your parents stayed together after the children left I'd doubt they really were only together for you.

My parents separated when I was 5. My only memories of them together are of arguing, and of my Dad going to bed for weeks (he had a nervous breakdown). I now find it impossible to imagine them together, they are such different people, and I have no doubt that they'd be miserable - and so would I - if they had stayed together.

Was v interested by your question about how the sexes cope though OP, as my brother (3 years younger than me) blames them hugely for what he sees as a terrible childhood, whereas I have a totally different view on it. I think a lot of that stems from him having no memory at all of the fighting etc, so a much more rose-tinted idea of what their marriage was like.

I'm not making the assumptions Offred, it was the research that I did that raised those conclusions.

I always find it interesting that people who are very quick to point out that divorce massively favoured them have a parent who was an addict (usually alcohol), mentally ill or was abusive. It goes without saying that children should have been removed from those sorts of environments.

Most marriages seem to be a compromise of sorts but when does your personal boredom and lack of romantic relationship become a bona fide reason in breaking up?

There are many women I know in RL that this strikes a chord with. They do not have children with psychoses that are immediately apparent anyway.

The thing is: parents don't tend to divorce when the children are tiny and then have no further relationships. If this was the case, then you could argue it's better to get divorced, model healthy single relationships and then you'd all benefit. And where someone is moving on from an abuser or just a very very unhappy marriage, it is undoubtedly a benefit. But, most divorcees go on to have new relationships, of varying quality. Living with your parents' new partners is stressful and not to be underestimated. I also believe that my crap parent has gone on to be just as crap in other relationships, so no great modelling of functional relationships there. I think the main thing divorce gives you is the opportunity to limit contact with a dysfunctional or abusive partner (as they usually turn out to be reliably crap at contact/maintenance etc).

My parents didn't divorce but life was hell during my teenage and young adult years. I was left with a rock-bottom self-esteem and a nasty eating disorder.
They are divording now after more than 30 years together and I feel I'm having the worst of both worlds...

My parents divorced when I was 5. It was a good thing for my mum to do as my dad drank and was abusive when drunk. It shocked him into getting his act together.

I had a lovely lovely time with my dad after the divorce - he really made amends for his past behaviour and was fun to be with. Things got tricky when both parents remarried - my sd and sm were pretty difficult. The other thing that was hard was that there wasn't much outlet for feelings of sadness. i used to say that I would rather my parents were happy apart than unhappy together but tbh that was something I used to recite parrot-fashion. There was obviously sadness and grief involved and I needed help to verbalise that.

All in all though, it was a good thing for them to separate.

My parents are not divorced Soso and I've read the research. I used it to substantiate point I made in a family court case. The research into stable environments i've seen is about child development. Have you read some that looked at the effect of stable but unhappy parental relationships and the long term effects on children? It is an assumption to go from child development outcomes to wholistic effects or from unstable environments negatively affecting child development to there being no effect on children if you stay together for the kids after the relationship is effectively over.

My parents were unhappy for years but finally split up on their 30th wedding anniversary...I was 27 and it messed me up quite a lot because my dad went a bit mad for a while. They should have done it when I was a young child and everyone would have been happier. Listening to your parents argue and watch them sulk and experiencing bad atmospheres is awful....

I agree that often it's not so much the divorce that hurts the DC, but the lack of daily contact with one parent and of course the new partners.

When BIL left the family home he continued to see the DC most days and they often stayed with him at his new place.

Now he has a new partner and they have moved in together with her DC. He no longer sees his own DC every day (though of course he sees his step DC everyday).
His new partner finds it very hard to tolerate BIL's son who has issues with ASD and there is constant friction.
His duaghter now spends little time with her Dad as she says she gets no time on her own with him and doesn't particularly want to spend time with his new partner.

Both DC are suffering. The DS's beahviour has worsened and school are worried. The DD has put on mounds of weight. Presumably comfort eating.

One of the main problems is that problems get magnified over time. Everyone has compromises and dis-satisfactions in long term relationships. I think being a bit dissatisfied is not the same as being together for the kids, not at all. Being together for the kids to me is deciding the relationship is over and you are not going to work on it, but choosing to continue with it anyway because you don't want the children to experience divorce and a "broken home".

I do think this leads to problems with drugs, abuse, mental health etc.