To sprog or not to sprog?

[BadLad]

Not a problem now, as this time round I was wise enough (or not as stupid as the first time) to discuss the matter beforehand, but is splitting inevitable when one partner wants kids and the other doesn't?

My otherwise very nice ex-wife and I divorced over that issue, and although I have moved on, I still do wonder from time to time whether things could have been different?

Any thoughts?

I don't think any relationship can survive if each want a completely different lifestyle.

The term 'sprog' is horrible though.

It's one of those issues where there can't be a compromise as far as I can see - you either have a baby or you don't. If you're both certain about how you feel, then I cant' imagine that at least one of you wouldn't end up feeling resentful if you stayed together.

Having said that, my friend didn't discuss the matter with her H until about 2 months before they got married. When he said he was 100% sure that he wanted kids, she went along with it, despite being on the fence herself. She's just had her first and all is going well so far but I do worry about how it's going to play out.

Oh, apologies, I have always thought "sprog" was mildly facetious, rather than horrible. Can't see a way to edit - is there one?

IMO it probably is inevitable at some point (might take a few years to get their though)

I dont have direct experience myself as both my and DH wanted children and generally agreed on timing etc, but i have a few friends who were in this situation - one the woman always stated she did not want children. ever. at all. Her DH did but said he was ok with that, that being with her was more importnant. 10 years on and at 39 years old she has given in and they now have a 6 month old DD. He always hoped she would change her mind. She gave in as she didn;t want to split and always feared he would find someone else in the end who did want children. Fortunately she loves being a mum so it has worked out.

The other couple i know, the woman wanted children, her DH did not. She married him hoping he would change his mind. He did not. THey split over it as she could not live with that choice ultimately

I do think it is a very difficult situation to be in when one partner wants children and one doesn't. Its not like one of you wants chips and the other doesn;t - its a really big difference of lifestyle opinion, and imo of very different life choices that i dont see can be brushed aside.I love my DH dearly but i dont think i could have stayed with him if he hadn;t have wanted children - the biological desire to have children i had was too overwhelming and i'm pretty sure i would have ended up resentful

I think, if one of you doesn't want kids then the kindest thing is for that person to end the relationship if the other person really does want them or starts talking about them.

You don't say if it's you or your ex-wife who didn't want kids? If it was you then at least you did the right thing by getting divorved and letting her get on with hopefully finding someone who does while she is still young enough. If it was her then I am sorry that your marriage had to end but it was for the best and now you can look forward to having kids with someone who really wants them.

Depending on who it is you may have some hard decisions to make with your new partner though.

Well, there is no compromise on children is there, so if the opposing desires can't be reconciled then I would imagine a split inevitable, which is better than one or other living with resentment.

I know one couple where he didn't want and she did want children. She was able to live with the lack of children in the end and they are still together and approaching retirement. I know she feels wistful of what may have been sometimes, but doesn't regret her choice ultimately. Some people would not be able to do that though.

The other couple i know, the woman wanted children, her DH did not. She married him hoping he would change his mind. He did not. THey split over it as she could not live with that choice ultimately

Well, that was our situation more or less, although I'm not sure if my ex married me thinking I would change my mind. I can't even remember the extent to which we talked about it - she might well have assumed I automatically would want them, whereas I probably just didn't think that far ahead.

That was the only thing we ever rowed about. When I told her I didn't think there was a future for us, she did actually go as far as to say that she would prefer to stay with me and not have kids than to split up. But I imagined the resentment building up - we had had a year of some rather nasty arguments about having children and the very occasional incident of flying crockery (from her) - and only getting worse, so we split up.

just to add, it's not clear from your OP from whos perspective you are asking.

Do you want kids? If not then are you asking if you are likely to change your mind or if you should trust your partner to not change hers and start asking for them?

My friend who says he doesn't want kids seems to always date women who already have them. My advice to him has always been to date someone in their 50s as the chances are they won't be able to have kids anyway.

x-posts

so you are asking if your current partner might change her mind even though you have had the talk about not wanting them?

DH wasn't really against having children, he had just never planned to have any. He knew I was as broody as a broody thing as soon as we started dating though, and he was happy enough to have a baby when we did - at the time we probably would have split if he was against having children. Because I would have cut my losses, I was old enough to know that I shouldn't waste my time going out with someone for years and then not commit.

We now have two and he is a great dad.

Well, sounds like you took the matter out of her hands and decided she was kidding herself she'd rather stay with you child free.

You will never know now if she could have actually done that and resigned herself to it or if the crockery would have kept flying. But ultimately you did the right thing as you saw it at the time, so many decisions would be easier with hindsight but that is not possible.

Has she found someone to have kids with now?

I didn't want them, she did. We were both early 30s at the time.

This time round, my partner can't have them, so it is a non-issue unless I change my mind, which I am as certain as one can be about these things.

My partner is sometimes worried that I will want to be a Dad one day.

Reassure her you are as certain as anyone can be that it will never be a dealbreaker. The fact you had enough certainty over your intentions to divorce your previous wife should reassure her to the permanence of your wishes.

I think not being able to have children is such an hard thing to encompass into your sense of self (choice removed rather than any intended desire not to have them) she is probably projecting her own thoughts onto you.

I take it she doesn't want them either though, as if she did there is always the adoption route if she can't have her own.

'My partner is sometimes worried that I will want to be a Dad one day'

Ah - so are you actually asking if you are likely to change your mind? It's a tough question and no one can really know. As a woman I changed my mind in my early thirties but I don't know if this is a particularly female thing.

The flying crockery was very rare, not that that excuses it. I took that as a sign of the strength of her feelings about it.

I don't know if she has kids now - since the divorce was finalised and niggling matters sorted out, there has been very little in the way of contact and none recently. I hope she has, but it isn't my business to know if she wants to move on with her life.

BadLad, myself and my DP have decided not to have children, and haven't changed our minds in 7 years together, but I still worry a bit that one of us will change! I try not to worry about it as no-one can say for sure that their feelings about anything will stay the same forever. We went to visit my friend's new baby yesterday and both enjoyed cooing over her, and I had mild 'broody' feelings afterwards, but when I think about the reality of having a baby, day in and day out, I want to run a mile!

How would you feel if you saw yourself 10 years in the future, without children?

Why not go and get the snip?
Do you feel that strongly about not having kids?
It might make your DP feel happier about your decision and the relationship.

She doesn't want them, and was not disappointed at all when it became apparent that she couldn't. I wondered if that might be her putting a brave face on it, but it doesn't seem so.

Fanjo, I suppose I would be interested in hearing if other posters have, or especially have husbands who have decided they do want them after deciding that they don't. And to know what triggered that off.

Honestly can't imagine myself changing my mind. Both my partner and I enjoy our jobs, and our travels, and I don't think either of us would want to make the sacrifices that having a child would mean. I presume there's the fear of change for everyone.

JOS, you're right, all I can do is reassure her whenever it comes up. Hopefully as time goes on and I continue to show no interest, she will feel more secure. It is causing a few problems with our parents - the first time they met, my mother-in-law went as far as to apologise to my parents that her daughter couldn't give them any grandchildren, with my wife standing right there.

My parents have been better, and never mentioned it to my wife, although they did ask me "Are you sure this is what you want?" before we got married. Since then, they haven't brought it up at all.

Good Grief! I have heard it all now! Her parents apologised to your parents for their barren daughter.

I am stunned beyond words.

I actually think DuellingFanjo;s idea is brilliant - it would put your relationship on a very equal footing and remove all possibility of doubt - which would benefit you as a couple and your future lovely carefree childless days. :)

Lottapianos, we have nephews and a niece, and it is fun playing with them, but there is always an escape on the horizon, as the most we do is babysit occasionally. It is a nice change, but the thought of looking after a child all the time is something I just can't conceive (pun intended).

Didn't consider the snip. I suppose that would put a lid on the matter once and for all. If the problem ever come to a head - at the moment she doesn't bring it up very often - then that's a good idea - I'll bear that in mind.

(winces).

This is a cross-cultural marriage, where childless couples (through choice) are uncommon. So my mother-in-law was flabberghasted, albeit pleased, that her daughter was finally getting married.

That's not to say that nobody had ever wanted to marry my wife before, but when she was younger, she very much valued her independence.

That particular incident was worse because there is no common language between her family and mine, so it had to be translated. There was a stunned silence, then my wife just translated it for my parents. Fortunately my mother is hearty as well as quickthinking, and laughed it off with a "the world can only take one Badlad"

Anyway, will certainly suggest the snip if the matter causes problems.

It's lovely being able to spend time with children but knowing that you also get to go home to peace and quiet and a large drink if you fancy one! I work with children and I feel that I get to enjoy all the lovely things about being around them, but I also have my adult time which I really value.

People like your wife's parents can make you feel a bit 'odd' at times and it's surprising how many people get very thrown by the idea that someone could choose not to be a parent and be happy with that decision. I've had my fair share of crappy comments in my time and they can be extremely hurtful

I have children but can totally understand those who don't want to, even though I love mine to pieces and wouldn't change a thing! Some people have no imagination and can't picture people making choices they wouldn't, rude to open your big mouth and comment on it though.

I think a relationship can work if both people are honest about their feelings and discuss it in a non-emotional way. My Mum has friends where they took the decision to not have children because the man's job involved a lot of overseas work and his wife decided she'd rather travel with him than stay at home looking after children on her own (she would have family support close by). I have a good friend who has never wanted children, her husband did but they've been married about 15 years now and appear very happy. I know she had a wobble in her late 30s but has definitely decided no and we're now all in our 40s so the decision is made. I also didn't want kids, DH did. We had a long talk about it before we moved in together (late 20s) and the clincher argument to stay together was 'what if one of us couldn't have kids?' He agreed he wouldn't leave me if the situation was that I wanted kids but couldn't biologically have them so we stayed together because at least in the situation we were in he 'knew' what was going to happen. Of course, in my late 30s we did end up having kids.

I'm slightly suspicious (probably because I've never felt that way) of people who always say they want children no matter what. I think it's something that ideally should come out of a relationship, that you should think 'this is a great person to have kids with' not 'I want children' in an abstract way. After all, having children is such a leap into the unknown, how can you be sure it's what you want? And it's not like you can send them back. I (rather jokingly) sometimes tell people that the people who don't want kids are the best ones to have them because they obviously don't have rose-tinted specs about how hard it can be at times.

My Dh didn't really want kids but accepted that it would happen - I couldn't wait to start a family and be a sahm and he was well aware of that. His priorities are career and a happy marriage, and he's happy to accept that his marriage comes with children.

If you know deep down that you don't want children, that's very different to being in a happy relationship whether that comes with children or not.