complicated other baby mother situation

[icecold]

This is on behalf of a friend....

her husband slept with someone else and the result is a child who is less than a year younger (or older, I forget) than her own second child. Her husband told the OW that he was married in the hospital after she had given birth, he did this so that she would not choose to have a termination

He told my friend about his infidelity and the child some years later when she was pregnant with their 3rd baby. he told her because the OW had contacted him and said that he was allowed contact with their daughter. She had previously not allowed contact.

My friend chose to stay with him. He went to visit his child weekly for a few hours with the OW, as she wouldnt allow unsupervised contact. She has over the last 4-5 years intermittently stopped and started contact.

My riend and her husband now have 5 children. 'D'H has told their children about their half sister and they have started to go with him to visit; not to the house, but as I understand the OW now allows unsupervised contact. However, she will not allow her dd to meet or have any contact with my friend, she is not allowed to their house.

This means that every week for a couple of hours on a Sunday, my friend's DH and their children go off without her, pick up the half-sister and go for a day out/trip/whatever. She is upset that she is being excluded from her own family in this way. I think it is completely out of order. Isnt it? Surely the child has much to gain from being welcomed into her fathers home and his family?? And I dont think it would be unreasonable of her to insist that she be included/child visit their home? She says that OW will not allow it and it may jepodise her husbands access....

we were discussing it last night; she is upset, it is driving a wedge between them. I advised that she contact the OW and maybe then she will feel more comfortable about her dd meeting her. So far OW has refused to meet her. I said she should post a note through her door and then knock the door when she has had time to digest...

Any experiences/advise/insight greatly appreciated

If she's daft enough to stick with such a lying cheating scrote and then allow herself to be treated this way, it's her look out, surely? She's only being treated as she allows herself to be.

Are you sure the 'D'H is telling your friend the whole truth about the situation? I wouldn't trust him.

It matters whose to blame because that person has the responsibility of sorting it out. He has an obligation to both Mothers and all the children and if he can't get everyone to get along amicably then it's his responsibility to make it happen legally.

If the court grants him unsupervised access to his child then the OW will no longer be able to stipulate what he does when he sees his child.

I think the husband is lying.

He is a liar and a cunt.

She shouldnt believe a single word that comes out of his mouth.

You see if he misrepresented your friend or has said incredibly stupid things like "she'll be a great mum to dd" you can see why the OW might be very resistant. He needs to say dd has a mum, you, and dw has no interest in being a mum to her but she and the wider family do want to make her welcome and let her meet her extended family. If you want to meet any of them beforehand, they'd be willing.

What a loathsome excuse for a man he is. He needs neutering.
I realise that isn't very helpful to your friend. Sorry.

With 5 kids, I'd have thought that your friend would be delighted with a couple of hours to herself every Sunday....

Given that she's dealt with him having a child with someone else and made her peace, rightly or wrongly, with that, is a lack of contact with the child now really such a big deal? She's not really excluded from her own family, just from one outing a week, same as if the DC all did a really boring hobby with their Dad that she hated.

From just one outing a week? How many outings a week do you think a family can afford with 5 kids??

Last week they had family photographs taken......him and the kids. Not her

I'm going to talk to het, about talking to him about getting legal advice

I think you are right Annie about the misdirected anger...its very sad

Shirley Glass talks about this situation, when a child results from an affair:

same rules. They are a unit, and see the child together. He is NEVER to contact OW without the wife, and the child sees Dad and wife as a team.

S he is being unfair and no wonder your friend is unhappy about the situation.

Yy wobbly to having the 'team's split up....surely its better for the child to see her dad in a partnership with his wife/mother of (most of) his children?

What book (?) is this in? Is it coveted in any detail? Maybe useful for friend to read....

It's an awful position to be in, something very similar has happened in our daughters school. A and b were both married and had an affair, a discovered she was pregnant left her husband moved closer to where b lived, b was supposed to leave his wife, but then found out she too was pregnant. He and his wife decided to give it another go.

A was devastated but wanted her child to have a dad.

B has access to Thier child but isn't allowed to take the child to his home, so he takes both children out on days trips, and sometimes he sleeps over at a's to babysit for her to have a night out.

We see him at school a lot picking the child up, and it's the child I feel saddened for.

Inheritance rights?
That is not an issue

But yes, to the rest...although I do know a couple of fathers who are denied access by the mothers despite court order. And another mother who attends access. It depends on the circumstances doesn't it...or what the OW will say the circumstances are

But yes, going for legal access would start on the road to respecting his wife...

What Does Be wife think of the situation giraffe

he sleeps over?¿?¿!!!

and to think how many jilted and betrayed women have to suck it up when their kids meet the OW

YOu seem quite certain that the OW is being the villain here OP but are you sure? the husband has shown his true colours and it's him I feel the most suspicious about. It could be that the OW is being demonised when things could be very different to how they seem.

Your friend needs to find out for herself whether this story her husband is telling her is as stated. So your proposed advice for her to contact the OW herself is absolutely sound.

This is a case of moral vs legal rights. Legally, as an unmarried father who doesn't live with the child's mother and never has, he has no automatic right to see his child, less still the right to take her where he wants to. I'm assuming he doesn't have parental responsibility but even if he did, in these circumstances the child's mother will always have more legal rights about who sees her child and where they go.

Morally though, this little girl has the right to see her dad and the right to spend time with her siblings in their own home. From your chronology I would guess she is now about 9 or 10 and therefore old enough to state her wishes? This might therefore hold some sway with a family court who always try to act with the best interests of the child and not necessarily, her parents'.

If it turns out that he is telling the truth, I'd advise him to get some legal advice about parental responsibility and his child's rights to have unfettered access to her other family. The focus though should be on her rights, not his.

I'd also advise your friend to be honest with her own children about why she has been excluded thus far, because it's not beyond the realms of possibility that her children have been fed some tripe about her being bitter and refusing to clap eyes on her husband's other child.

I'm somewhat sceptical BTW that the OW got a shock when she heard that her lover was married and had a whole other life. But given that he allegedly took away her rights to make a decision regarding her pregnancy and didn't tell your friend all this until she was already pregnant and probably at her most vulnerable, it's possible that he's a master deceiver and liar who was able to convince a presumably intelligent woman that he was single and wanted her to have his child. I'd be interested in how though - it's quite hard to cover up a fully functioning marriage, 2 children and another household without arousing at least some suspicion. My instincts tell me that the OW knew, but didn't want to know.

I would completely believe that this spunk trumpet could convince baby mother 2 of his "single status". Baby fathers in droves where I used to live, it was used like some kind of status symbol.

My friend found herself in exactly the same situation and this man had 6 other children from 4 different women. Plus my mates baby was born within weeks of another of his offspring. He told her he worked on Saturdays, but he was working his way round his visitation days.

Utter, utter cunt. Just like your friends bloke. How low must her self esteem be, if she kept turning out children in a bid to secure her relationship with this pathetic specimen.

So either he is lying, and he is continuing a relationship with this woman, and trying to keep them both distant, and she is in on it.

Or, due to his lying he is making out that your friend is some hideous unreasonable monster and the OW doesn't want her dc exposed.

Or, she still can't get her head round it all, but is gracious enough to understand that her dc needs some kind of father in their life, and to know their siblings and is doing the best that she can within her very understandable limitations, and has no respect for your friend at all.

Either way, he is a liar and a cunt.

I'd go round there.

"Last week they had family photographs taken......him and the kids. Not her"

Jesus, he is a sick fuck.

He has his little family of children and the women who bore them have just been conveniently erased.

He is lying. Fgs.
It does not suit him to have his two women meet.
Neither of them have real cause to hate each other as they were both in the dark and it all happened a long time ago.
He wants them apart and is telling whatever lies he needs to in order to keep his families apart.
Perhaps the OW has an image of the wife as the perfect earth mother and feels a bit intimidated. No doubt the husband is making te not of this,
As a mother I would be uneasy at being excluded from such a huge event in my children's lives.
The situationis hideous

She needs to contact the "OW" directly. He is playing divide and conquer. What an ego stroke for him - getting to play happy families with two women as and when he chooses.

The women need to talk to each other directly and decide what they want out of the situation. They shouldn't be set up as opponents, as they both have a lot in common - they're both being manipulated by the same man.

I agree with what others have said - is your friend sure that the OW doesn't want her with her DD? It sounds just as probable that the husband doesn't want them meeting. Who knows what lies he is tellings and has told to each of the women. And if the OW doesn't want her DD meeting your friend, that may well be because of lies he has told too. The fact that he hasn't addressed this in five years speaks volumes...

What a class A c**t this guy is. I feel sorry for both women and the children concerned.

I think I would write her an honest letter explaining that I would really like to meet (when she's ready) and spend time with her child.
That she is the innocent party in this.
Maybe it's possible to put aside any animosity for all DC involved (obviously she allows the relationship between the children)
You get my drift......
If it fails then it will have to be the legal way. Your friend can't continue to allow this madness to continue for her own sake and also for her DC's.

The man in this if I can call him that is a selfish, lying, disrespectful twat. I agree with some other posters...who knows what shite he's been spinning both of these women. And it probably suits him fine to have them at odds with each other.

Thank you, everyone for your replies

I can see that it is very possible that he may be creating this situation, rather than OW. I do know that my friend has gotten some of her information from snooping at her husands text messages. But I'm not sure how much, and how much is what he has told her. I don't think he is still seeing OW, so I can't see what the benefit is for him in keeping the 2 mums apart; or at least why he would want to keep the dd from his wife But I don't understand the levels of deviousness at all...so...

I think my advice will be, go ahead with contacting OW, and also get husband to get legal advice about access

If he won't...then....she either has to live with the situation, or leave him...

Even if the affair ended years ago, the benefit is that his wife doesn't find out the lies he told both women while it was ongoing...

He's told an awful lot of lies to convince the OW he was a single dad and he probably has not dropped that habit. Having the two women come together to compare notes might make matters very tricky.