Sick of this

[Tiredofbeingalone]

Long-term poster, have seen the excellent advice given on this board and just posting for a bit of help.

It could be that I'm just tired and being a bit spoilt and me-me-me which I often tell myself but I'm at the end of my tether with my current situation.

I don't know where to start really. I have two dc aged almost three and almost one who are beautiful but also demanding. I live with my partner and we have a wedding booked for next summer.

He owns the house and is doing considerable work to it to make it bigger. It has been a bit of a wreck for a while as there is just so much to do so housewoek is ridiculous with the dust and building stuff and it constantly looks a mess.

We have the two children and he has dogs who just add to the general work and mess. I could do housework all day and night and still be ashamed at the state of my home. I know it is a temporary thing and it will be great when finished etc but it's like shovelling in the proverbial snow storm at the moment and has been since before the youngest was born. I worry about what people think when they come over.

My partner works long hours, usually seven days per week. He leaves before I wake up and returns just before the children go to bed, needing a shower and dinner just as I'm reaching the bedtime routine. That time of day is a nightmare for me. Recently he has been working on out house late into the night / whenever he gets a day off too.

I had almost two years off on maternity leave during which I suffered from horrible anxiety which seems to have gone now. I got to the point where I felt I just couldn't carry on anymore and was actually losing my mind but I just had to carry on as normal with the children as he cannot compromise on his work. I felt at breaking point every single day for a while, I was just so tired and lonely and angry with the way my life turned out.

I have a degree and was working in my first "job for a year" role when I got pregnant. It was good enough, I enjoyed it but five years later I am still there, part time, feeling a failure, my wages being swallowed by childcare so I am constantly skint. He earns good money but all finances are separate and he pays mortgage, bills etc so effectively keeps me.

Since my money situation has been this way I have been spending at random times on eBay, just little purchases here and there for myself snd the kids fot Christmas, which I can't afford and isn't like me, I am normally very sensible with money.

I know he has to work. He is a great provider, very successful and we have a brand new car, wedding expenses and the work on our house to pay for . I knew it would be like this and i do appreciate what he does does for us but I just feel so alone. Everything to do with the children and house falls on me and I feel too fragile for the responsibility. My two year old has a speech delay and refuses to potty train and I feel a failure for this too.

If I talk to him he is understanding but says there is nothing he can do as we need to pay for these things and he is right.

His last relationship broke down because of his working all the time so this isn't a new thing for him, he has always been the same. He enjoys his work as the money it affords and now we have children I feel it is sometimes an excuse do him to work more.

I used to have a life and friends but as I have the children with me seven days per week when I'm not in work myself I struggle to find time to do anything. I find myself feeling resentful when he nips to the shops or to see family because I never get the chance to do anything by myself without the children which I pathetic. I'm their mother!

I can't drive although I am learning and have afore-mentioned shiny car to drive once I pass my test (failed once) which I am thankful for, honestly. I just can't get anywhere not within walking distance with the children unless a family member offers or it is a rare day he is off.

Perhaps I am just feeling a failure due to my own circumstances and taking it out on him. I'm sure this reads very rambling and "poor me". I'm just so unhappy.

He isn't a bad guy, we used to have so much fun but now I almost feel like leaving just so I'm not expecting any help so can't be angry when it doesn't materialise iyswim.

I went up to bed early last night leaving him with the baby and I know he is annoyed at me because he won't answer the phone to me today. He'll just say he is busy. The children have a birthday party To go to this afternoon which I can't get them to without a car. I know he won't be home in time.

His family are great with the children and have them overnight etc when we h e plans with friends (usually his, I often don't have the money/inclination to go out much with mine) but my family aren't great wrt babysitting so I feel guilty suggesting time out together as it usually falls on his family to babysit and him to pay.

I just feel rubbish. I want to take the dcs to my parents/ a hotel tonight just to make him realise I'm serious about this being a problem. I'm so tired and alone.

Sorry this is so long and disorganised.

You're being taken for granted and you feel obliged to put up and shut up because you think his work takes higher priority over your contribution. You do not seem to be treated as an equal partner financially, which is a concern. The family may have a shiny new car but it's no use to you because you can't drive, you're 'skint', your emotional needs are given very low billing and you're fretting about a few E-Bay purchases. In short, you are currently placed a very poor runner-up to him, his work, the house, material possessions, the kids ... and somewhere at the back of it all is you. That's quite wrong.

No, he hasn't learned the lesson of his last relationship and yours is going to go the same way unless he wakes up and smells the coffee. No-one's job is so important as to be 24/7 and he doesn't have to work on the house until all hours. He could compromise but he chooses not to.

So stop believing that what you want makes you inferior. What you want .... a husband that notices you are there, appreciates your contribution and spends time with his family, is not unusual at all. Tell him exactly how you feel and don't pull your punches.

That's just made me cry. I just feel pathetic, always moaning and nagging and negative and depending on everyone else all the time. I need to change my life but the only way I can see of taking control is to leave which seems overkill. I feel like lots of people would love to have a hard-working partner and wonder why I'm complaining about keeping house and caring for my own children.

The only reason you think you're moaning and nagging is because you're not being listened to. If you were being listened to by a loving partner, you'd only have to express your concerns once. FWIW He probably thinks that all this work and house-building that leaves you feeling so lonely and excluded is demonstrating how much he loves and cares for his family. To get past this mismatch you have to make some space and set aside time to talk seriously... possibly with a neutral mediator.... and get yourself heard.

And I would put a big emphasis on the practical things personally. The money situation is all wrong for a start. Childcare costs, for example, are not 'women's expenses' they are a shared family cost. In a relationship where the two partners earn very different amounts you need to retain a similar amount of money each for personal expenses but the rest should be saved or spent on the family. No-one should be able to buy flash cars when the other one is worrying about spending £10 on E-Bay. That house he's building... don't wait until you're married to be listed as joint owner or mortgagee. To me that's a pretty basic commitment. If his world revolves around business/work... be businesslike.

Then the housework. STOP trying to clean up a house that is full of rubble single-handed because it is a depressing, never-ending task. He has to get the workmen to do it, hire you some cleaners, or he has to pitch in himself and get sweeping.

Sharpen your elbows because I think this man needs it between the eyes before he'll take you seriously. And if you want to use 'I'm leaving', give him a deadline to aim for and then he has an action/consequence, cause/effect deal on the table... not just an 'emotional' flouncing woman.

That sounds like a horrible situation to be in but there is a lot going on here and it is diffcult to unravel.

On the one hand you have him working all the hours he can which he has to do because of your expenses and it is very diffcult to argue with that because you are benefitting from that money and he is doing what he can to support his family which is apparently all very admirable. To argue with that seems difficult but he doesn't have to work so many hours - it sounds like he does it either because he wants to or to escape which are not the unselfish family spirited reasons he may pretend they are.

And no matter what you contribute or don't, no way should you be made to feel like a kept woman. First off you have children together and they are his as much as yours. The childcare costs should be split which would leave you with 'your' money to make a contribution elsewhere or spend as you want. Your contribution is just as valuable even if it doesn't entail contributing as much money. Money is not the most important thing in the world once the cost of the basics are covered and if you are just working for a better car, bigger house etc and it is damaging your relationships you have got to be wondering if you have got the balance right.

I know that opinions vary on this but I don't think that your finances should be as separate as they currently are. You are supposed to be getting married and yet your DP is living like a single guy and you are struggling along thinking you have no money of your own. I don't know about the legalities of it but it sounds to me like you are dodgy ground if you broke up now as you have no right to anything. IMO couples should be pooling their resources not living as separate people who just happen to be sharing a house. I know others might disagree on that, there have been many threads on it, but if you are going to be spending the rest of your life with somebody, the sharing and the trust that entails from both of you should be a basic requirement before you commit to marriage and I am not sure that is there from your DP. What would he say if you said you wanted the house to be in joint names for example or for you to set up a joint account for shared expenses, including childcare?

What seems to be really suffering in all this your self esteem and that is something that you do have some control over. You could, for example, get a new job if your current one is dragging you down. It sounds like time for a change. Getting your driving test might help a lot but it sounds like that will be close if you have already taken your test once so keep plugging away at that . If you stop looking at childcare as only your responsibility you will have some money for going out with friends.

And can I just say, your elder child is not yet 3 - you don't have to be sweating the potty training. You certainly shouldn't be feeling a failure over it. If a child isn't ready to potty train, they aren't ready and it isn't your fault or theirs. Neither of mine were potty trained before 3 yrs 3mths and they are both bright boys, they just weren't ready before. Are you getting help with the speech delay? These are perhaps issues for another thread but I think they are also tied up with your self esteem issues and wouldn't seem quite so bad if you felt better about yourself.

Sorry this has got a bit long. There is just so much going on by the sounds of it but I think a proper conversation with your DP about sharing and some acknowledgment of your contribution are vital. I would take it from there as to whether you stay or go.

Agree with absolutely everything Cogito says.
You are not being selfish,he is.
He is going completely over the top.

I would say take take them to your parents/hotel for the night.

Alone, you are isolated anxious and depressed. Without a doubt.

Please be kind to yourself with those perfectionist tendencies! Answer back to that punishing voice in your head.

1. Stop trying to clean. Give yourself permission to be normal and human and accept that living in a building site is VERY stressfull, and that building sites CANNOT be kept dust free.

1. Keep up those driving lessons and get that independence. FYI I failed 5 times I got myself into such a state about it! Forgive yourself the failure and keep on keeping on.

1. Potty training is very overrated. Please don't visit your perfectionism on your DC, please. Alone, NOBODY is EVER asked in a job interview: 'and how old were you when you got out of nappies?' Don't sweat the small stuff!

When you are stressed and overwhelmed, nappies are a big help lets be honest. Also remember this: continence (bowel/bladder control) happens when the nerve endings develop, and they develop differently child to child. You lovely little boy has already indicated a bit of delay, so don't push him it might be too soon. FYI my DS1 finally got out of nappies at 3 1/2 because I really didn't think 'this' was the b all and end all. I lied about it at nursery, and he learned in one morning copying the others!!!! My handsome gorgeous boy clearly got over the trauma of this terrible mothering with 10 A* GCSEs and 3 As, well liked and with a good attitude to life. So keep it all in perspective, Alone. Don't stress about things that are really not vital, and don't push your son.

1. VERY IMPORTANT: book counselling, and tell him you are going, and that you would like him to come with you.

1. No joint back account - no sex/marriage/cooking whatever. This is an absolute must, he must NOT financially control things. Make sure you are married within community of property, although I think this is automatic in the UK.

There are a few red flags here. Workaholic = emotionally unavailable. Had it happen before but not change = no self-reflection. Being crossed/thwarted = passive aggressive punishing withdrawal.

Now you have DCs it is not so easy to leave, but I would URGE you to not to look to him for validation but develop your own life and friends, and develop your career. The reason I have written such a long reply to you, is that I married your DP and he did all the things you describe (including building sites!), and I am at 50 doing the things I am urging you to do now.

Alone, this is the biggest red flag of all:

'when we have plans with friends (usually his, I often don't have the money/inclination to go out much with mine) but my family aren't great wrt babysitting so I feel guilty suggesting time out together as it usually falls on his family to babysit and him to pay.'

WHAT THE ACTUAL F?

You need to sort this one out pronto, Cog has already brought this up. YOU ARE EQUAL PARTNERS that happened when he squirted and created a child WITH YOU. You must have EQUAL ACCESS TO JOINT FUNDS.

Do NOT go along with his financial control. You MUST go to counselling, and you MUST thrash this one out. That he brings in money DOES NOT make your contribution any less or unequal.
I think you need to do a bit of research, ask a solicitor friend on the QT what rights you have as a cohabitee, and what rights you get as a wife. This is not 'unromantic', it is getting real.

Thanks everyone. He did mention putting my name on the mortgage when his last deal was up and he swapped companies but I was in the grips of a big panic at the time and didn't really look into it. I think I was worried about being on maternity leave and not really bringing any money in so being seen as a financial risk etc which I know now wouldn't necessarily happen. (I was quite irrational at times when I was anxious as you can tell!)

I also can't escape from the feeling that I am a bit of a financial burden. Was always very independent before and hoped to always be although I see now that was perhaps unrealistic and I have contributed to my own misery by being too proud to ask and thibgs have juat run on with hin assuming everything is fine financially. I don't know if he even realises how difficult I find it to live on the little money I have leftover; he sometimes expresses surprise if I can't pay for the food shop etc and he has to step in. I feel he might think I'm just being wasteful and as I referred to in the op, lately I have actually started shopping a little, though nothing major or expensive, just little bits and pieces for the dc or to cheer myself up. When I have no money. Which is wasteful.

But as I said, he pays the mortgage, bills so the only expenses I have are childcare and my phone bill. I used to pay for the food shop as my contribution but have been unable to even do that lately.

The relationship was quite new when I fell pregnant and I was 24 and idealistic, had my whole life in front of me and "prospects" which seem to have disappeared a bit now I'm earning £16k with two children to support. I was determined to support the family too which just can't happen on my wages at the moment and with two under fives.

I think we are very different wrt money. He didn't have much growing up, his mother worked hard but struggled and it gives him a sense of security and worth to do well now. I'm not sure if it is this coming into play or just that he wants to treat us (he is very generous) or just feels that he should have nice things because he sacrifices and works a lot.

I would be happy with a small house, which I could keep clean and not be embarrassed about, an old car, small wedding etc so long as we got to spend time with him as a family but I fear we are too far in (wedding booked, house started etc) to just back out of everything and downsize now, even if he would agree which I doubt.

His brother is also well off and he and his partner often make snide remarks about our house (theirs is immaculate, no dc, no pets etc) which washes over dp but makes me feel worse. She has an excellent job and still manages to keep her house nice whereas I work part time at a mediocre level and can't even hold it all together. This is all very petty isn't it! I'm sure other people have real problems!

Have applied for a few jobs lately but had no joy. Need to keep trying I suppose!

Tired, there is only one person you can change, and that is yourself. You don't have to be that anxious, or have those distorted thoughts, or be this hard on yourself, you really don't. I would go to counselling IIWY, just for those.

When you change, he will change in response. Do you see this? When you start giving yourself permission to matter, have needs, stop trying to do it alone, you might find that he is totally reasonable. People aren't mind readers, most men don't know the price of shopping, you would be in a great place if WHEN you could tell him matter of factly that it is time to have a joint account, or you need £400 a week to do what you have to do.

You can give yourself permission to get a childminder. You can give yourself permission to see your friends and EXPECT and BELIEVE that he pays for his spouse for the evening. (WTF is that about?) You don't have to believe SIL. You can be comfortable in your own skin. You can develop your job and get more training.

Your whole life is ahead of you, Torn, don't waste it with worrying, shackling yourself and beating yourself up.

But the million $ question is, is he financially stingy and withholding, or do you put these constraints on yourself?

You have to tell him all this. As I said before, it's a pretty basic mismatch if one partner thinks 'love is'.... working all the hours to bring in the money, provide for the family, keep up with the Jones and live in style and the other thinks 'love is'.... spending quality time together, living modestly, and is so embarrassed to talk about cash that she sees herself as a kept woman. If you'd had longer together before you had children, maybe you'd have spotted these differences and gone your separate ways. As you're now well and truly connected, you need to have a very honest conversation very urgently or you will both end up feeling resentful and undervalued

Your finances should be shared, you have children together and are planning on getting married so why is he "keeping" you, childcare, having a social life etc etc are shared costs and needs you both have.

You are all talking sense which is exactly what I need. I don't think he is a bad person, I just think he is happy to go off to work and choose not see the problems iyswim. Haven't got a clue how to broach this. Maybe I should just sit him down and tell him my income is sonetimes less than my expenses. Bit difficult this morning as I behaved like a stroppy teenager last night (as I'm being treated, pretty much!) and I think he's cross with me.

Can you learn to do stuff in the house as well? It will not only speed up finishing it, but might make you feel more useful. You might think its beyond you, but I and some friends all learned to do stuff like putting up plasterboard, AMES taping, hanging wallpaper, tiling, etc., its not that difficult really and just requires attention to detail. Its also very satisfying!

tbh I think your DP sounds great. Theres a lot to be said for a hard working man. He does sound very ambitious though, in that he works hard and wants a nice house. You do have to work hard at certain stages in your career to progress, so you might want to think about whether this is incompatibility or an unfair critcism of him on your part. Sometimes you just don't have the choice at work to ease back. No-one wants to be first in the line for redundancy because you weren't the one willing to put in a few extra hours/travel for work/stay late one night.

Life won't always be like this! The house will be finished, the children will grow up and become more independent, you will find a job (you are so young!).

Tired,in a large number of households in Britain,the income that one partner brings in is 0.
So dont feel guilty.

When he gets cross with you,what are your fears.

How the heck are you supposed to do plaster boarding, tiling etc with two per schoolers?

I'm not surprised you are stressed out. Why not postpone the wedding, use the money to get workmen in and get the house done and I'm sure you would feel 100 times better. When that's done then start planning the wedding. If he says he wants to do it himself, tell him you just can't take anymore.

Tiredof - you're not quite listening to what people are saying - why in God's name is the food shop "your expense"? Why is the child care "your expense"? Does your DP not eat? Are they not his DC?
If you truly believe that these are things you "ought" to be paying for, then someone has done a real number on you. They are FAMILY EXPENSES. Just as much as the mortgage, bills etc.

Re. the house. Your DP is earning a lot of money working a lot of hours - then he can afford to get someone in to fix the house up.
He is not doing the best for your family at all - he is choosing to do what he wants and taking no one else into consideration.

Re. his dinner when it's DC bedtime routine - can he not cook? Let him do his own, or if you insist on doing it for him, do it when you do the DC's dinner and leave some for him. OR - hand over the DC to him to bath and put to bed while you cook the dinner.

You need to reassess your priorities in a spirit of cold objectivity, not in the "I'm not worthy" state that you seem to be in :(
I wouldn't want to be getting married in your situation, I'm sorry - he doesn't sound like he cares enough about either you or the children to be a good husband/life partner.

The fact that he leaves you with no money is a big problem for me

Thanks everyone for your comments. I haven't run off, I got a friend to sit next to me while I drive children to say party so were there now, will check back later.

when you come back, can you answer the question? Because a lot of your dilemma hinges on it:
is he financially stingy and withholding, or do you put these constraints on yourself?

TBH, it sounds like the only problem you have is him.

Could you clarify on the money issue - when you say you have no money left over, do you then have to actually ask him and give him a reason, or is it more like "mine ran out, can we pay XXX out of your account this month" "yeah sure" type thing? And my main concern, does he have lots of spare money?

Either way he doesn't sound like he will ever be a family man.

Wobbly that's a very good point. I know he was a bit reluctant to dive into the joint accounts state right away because he feels his ex took advantage of him financially and I was equally as reluctant because I knew he earned more than me so it felt a bit unequal (new relationship etc) and didn't want to have to justify any spending to someone else. Obviously we are a few years down the line and still together so it needs to be discussed again judging by some of the responses here.

I don't think he wilfully leaves me without money I just don't think he really thinks about it and I am embarrassed to tell him in case he just thinks I am not managing my money well and "living beyond my means". I don't think I am, I just feel that I have a lot of expense for someone not earning very much due to the childcare at the moment. But then again he pays all my basic living expenses so I can't have really.

I think he would give me money if I asked but I hardly ever do. I find it a bit uncomfortable. Probably my issues.

He is self employed and has a building business (hence the reluctance to get anyone else in to do the work) which has been established 10 years + so no boss to appease, no promotions to chase etc he just likes his job and likes the money side of it.

I had a long talk with him last night and suggested postponing the wedding which would give us another year or two to play with in terms of finishing the house and perhaps he wouldn't have to work so hard. He was very against this, said we would have a hard two years or so but then we would be married and the house finished and things would be different.

This is what I've been telling myself but it just feels like we've only had (relatively) difficult times so far, two babies close together, my illness, renovations, we are always struggling through things and as we don't have that foundation of a few years together before the stresses of children etc (we haven't even managed a holiday together yet as we have had so much going on) I'm not sure if the relationship will be strong enough to last another two years of upheaval, hardly seeing him, feeling resentful and alone etc. He thinks we have proved we can get through difficulties together. I think by the skin of our teeth and let's not compromise the relationship more than we need to.

I can see his point. After talking to him I am looking forward to the point where the house is finished, we are married and the children start school but knowing his personality he will probably want a new challenge then, another house or land or God Knowd What. He always has to be on the go and have a project whereas I am looking forward to a break...

Anyway. He is exhausted. Said he would rather be with us than working. I don't think that is necessarily true. Sometimes, definitely but I know the drudgery of a house and young children gets to him as it does me and also that he has always worked like this just because he enjoys it.

I have told him that he is missing out on the children and that they are missing out on family time with him which he seemed a bit upset by but it's true. When they were babies they perhaps didn't notice much but the oldest is almost three and never asks for him when he isn't here or asks him for a drink wtc when h is home because he's so used to not having him here.

He is off on a stag weekend next week which I honestly don't begrudge him. He deserves to let his hair down, it's a close friend and I don't mind. But it does illustrate how he can organise to have the weekend off if he wants to. He has never organised to take a weekend off to take us away or even just do fun things as a family. I sound a bit jealous of his job but I do feel it comes first. He used to play a sport but doesn't anymore (nothing to do with me) and he was very uncompromising with that too, had designated nights to go training and nothing could interfere with it no matter what.

I didn't speak much about finances because we were both exhausted and heading to bed but I have realised that I will be very short next weekend when he is away so I will have to ask him do money / access to accounts etc just in case we need something. Perhaps that could be the start of things.

Fuzzpig, yes it's more like the second option: "Could you pay for the shopping / whichever part of the childcare bill as I don't have any money" kind of thing, rather than my having to justify it. I feel it just been accepted that he earns more so can be generous whereas I don't so have to ask. I can't shake the feeling that it isn't my money although he says it is ours. I haven't earned it sp feel weird making claims to it although I do understand that I am caring for the children etc which he would have to pay someone to do if I wasn't here etc so will try to see it more like that.

Torn, I would go to counselling IIWY. So that you can learn to speak up and have a voice, and insist that what you value, is accorded value.

And you are right. He can organise time off work when he values it. I warn you that workaholism is a way of being distant. This was told me by a Relate counsellor. If you aren't around, you don't have to be intimate, AND you can tell yourself you are providing.

I am going to repeat the very wise remarks of an American counsellor about the responsibility in a marriage: she is referring to a marriage that has been hurt by infidelity, but when I look at the points she makes, I know that this describes my emotionally unavailable H to a T. My point is Torn, don't enable his avoiding! Start NOW, otherwise you will have to do it eventually in a m breakdown sich . Find your voice, value what you value! Why should you be beaten with the ex's stick. You can point out that YOU are finding what pissed the ex off too, you know.

"No, but you can damned sure keep on avoiding responsibility if enabled.

And I am not just referring to responsibility as being hard-working (hell, work can be a "clean" addiction), being a good provider, being physically present consistently and never having strayed sexually before.

Responsibility in marriage encompasses things like fundamental honesty, commitment, integrity, ability to delay gratification for the greater good of the marriage and family unit, accepting that it is hard work to maintain one's honor for a life time, and realizing that life (whether married or not) is not and never has been a picnic, that there is NO magic cure for the fact that life is flipping hard, and that making life even harder for everyone around you is not contributing to anything remotely resembling SOLUTIONS for self or anyone else."

well done for having a good talk through with him.
other people eill no doubt talk about the money issues etc.
The thing I would like to say,is that your DH is clearly a very driven focused man.I did think that he seemed to have a personality that was well suited to sport.i dont have experience of that to that extent,but he ought to be able to understand that his priorites towards his young children,need to be a much higher focus than they are at present.The fact that he was upset[assuming he was upset for the reason of realising that he is missing out,and so are you all],seems postitive.I hope that he follows through.He may need several reminders in the coming months.