Have you ever lost a friend by telling home truths?

[PeterPanandWendy]

A close friend is having a rough time- her DH has left her. The marriage has not been good for years and years and the split is not a surprise to me.
I've been a good friend for over 25 years, but I recently told her some "gentle" home truths about the way she treated her DH. I don't want to list those events here in case it outs her, but she has done some pretty rotten things to him and basically I think he just had enough one day.

In the past I bit my tongue which was possibly a mistake- but now that she is blaming him 99% for the split, I couldn't help remind her of some things she'd done over the years, to try to help her see it was not " all him".

I did this to try to help her stop seeing herself as the "victim".

Well, she didn't like it- and although we've spoken since, the last conversation wasn't mentioned and she was very cool with me.

I'm left wondering if a good friend says things as they are- where do we go next- should I say sorry, or what? It's worth my mentioning that in my own marital troubles over the years she has really not pulled any punches with her views- often hurtful - but I bounced back. But she seems to be holding a grudge now, and surrounding herself with "yes" friends.

Just leave it.

In being honest you've got nothing to reproach yourself with, and now she's got to come to the realisation that in her 25yo marriage she hasn't been the victim 99% of the time - and that, in the unlikely event that she has, no one need be a victim unless that's the role they want to play.

Let her get on with her 'yes' friends. I suspect that she'll soon get bored with being told what she wants to hear all of the time and, if not, losing the friendship of such a shallow individual will be no great loss for you.

Has she ever been receptive to criticism? I have found that the people who are most free with criticism and 'home truths' are the least likely to be receptive to them.

If she truly values you, then she should be able to get over it when some of the hurt dies down. I think your biggest mistakes were firstly, not telling her at least some home truths along the way, and secondly, deciding to finally tell her a home truth while she is in the hardest part of the break up. Right now she has every right to be upset and be the victim, this is the stage she is at in this process. At some point, yes, you could have said something, but why would you do it while she's hurting so much?

I have done, once, when I couldn't take another moment of her shit.

She cut all contact for 3 years.

We are friends again now, but it will never be the same. I don't regret it though, at all.

I told my best friend of 20 yrs, that wasn't looking forward to catch up, as I moved away, she was coming over to meet me in town after over a year, hardly text, never rang apart from once to ask if I could put her up for the weekend, that she had an affair.
Her dh rang me devastated, all been friends since school. Turned out she had slept with the new man on her hen night, I was with her that night !!! I knew nothing. I couldn't bring myself to meet up and listen to details, she was like an excited teenager, leaving a very loving dh and tearing her dd life upside down. She was gutted at my reaction, but haven't been in touch since.

Thank you both.

I didn't decide to tell her straight away- his leaving has been protracted over about 5 months.

I agree that I should have been more outspoken at the time of various events but she is a very forceful personality, and doesn't take any criticism lightly.

Whatever she has done ( to him) she feels it was justifed and always " has an answer" IYSWIM.

It came up this time because she was listing all the things he'd done- and wondering why he'd gone when she thought she had put loads of energy into the relationship. She had in a way- but it was always with the intention of "changing him" into something he never could be. They had counselling which was really to " sort him out".

But there is one thing which she did do - not an affair but worse IMO- which she thought he was over as it was 18 years back. He brought it up recently which proves he is not over it- but she dismissed by point of view that it was still bothering him by saying "Well he's had 18 years to get over it and he hasn't mentioned it much in all that time."

You see she is trying to win him back, and I was trying to point out to her that if she keeps doing the same things which drove him away, it's not going to work.

Oh, it's hard, isn't it. I had two friends who had a ghastly break-up a few years ago, and after taking vast quantities of their shit in the aftermath I did snap and tell them each a few home truths (as politely as I could). I don't think my relationship with either of them will ever be the same again, but then to be honest I was so pissed off with them both by then that it probably wouldn't have been the same again anyway.

The problem with 'forceful' people is that there's no way of making gentle suggestions/comments as they'll just ignore them. So one has to be quite frank, and then they go nuclear.

No, but I think I'm about to :/ Just hoping I get back the money she owes me first!

She's also my boss, which makes things a bit worse...!

I have found that the people who are most free with criticism and 'home truths' are the least likely to be receptive to them

I would not agree with this statement, as my experiences with this are the exact opposite, and I believe other latent grudges could be a possibility for not being able to take these "home truths" well.

Anyway, I thought immediately that the timing is possibly not right. If the heart or the soul/spirit cannot take and endure more "truths/eye openers" at this point in time, then the yes-sayers are needed for the current state of mind...

as it was mentioned already, just be gentle and leave it for now...

Yes I've lost one but tbh it's a relief. I have other less draining friends. I told my ex friend to stop posting status updates on FB saying how much she wanted to die. All to get a bloke's attention. The problem being her then 13 year old dd was on her friends list That poor lass. She's the only thing I miss about the exf.

Anyway exf is still alive and has a bloke, albeit as flaky as her by the sounds of it?

I agree with letting her get on with it. She doesn't sound very nice if she's so ignorant of her faults. My bfs are also pretty outspoken, as am I, but we can take constructive criticism. Anyone who thinks they're perfect are a pain to be around imo.

The problem is that I am one of 3 close friends who have known her for centuries. None of the others is, as far as I know, being honest about the "blame" for the relationship breakdown. I have tried- for almost 6 months- to keep my mouth shut and be neutral when she has pushed me for advice and opinions- usually always "What do you think he is thinking now about me/it/ etc".

My gut reaction then was to tell her he was likely to be fed up to the back teeth and thinks she is a cow and drama queen. But I didn't- I was tactful.

At the same time, she has neighbours who have not known her for as long as I have, or all the back history- who see only her side.

We were talking about it almost daily for weeks- and she'd call me late in the evening etc. I gave a huge amount of time and support.

What has changed is that it looks as if he is not coming back and she simply cannot "get" why that is- she thinks she has done very little wrong. When I brought up some stuff she was highly indignant .

I called her back and few days after that conversation and left a phone message saying hope she was okay and talk soon. She didn't call me. I left it another few days then called again and we chatted but she was cool and asked nothing about me or my life.

She's a dear friend but she has her faults- like I have mine. She's pushed her luck so to speak with me many times by being too frank with me about my behaviour- but she's always got out of it by saying she was being truthful because she cared- but now she can't take the same.

I suppose what I am saying is- is this going to be an elephant in the room or should I mention it next time we talk?

I'd leave her to get in touch. What exactly is so dear about her?

Sometimes you outgrow people. Do you have other friends apart from your old ones?

Oh yes, you really outgrow people sometimes, yes and one moves beyond friendships...all part of growing and developing and seeing light

I think sometimes people don't acknowledge how draining they can be, how much and how often they dump their stuff on you.

Usually honesty and "hitting the nail" is not wanted and not appreciated, and this usually also means their loss of a chance to grow.

I'm going to go against the tide of opinion here.

Reading between the lines, this has been a long marriage and if you've been friends for "centuries" then I'm assuming this is a woman in her forties or fifties. I also think there might be stuff you're not telling us here, for example why he left her? Men in this age group often leave marriages because they are having an affair and if this has happened, her devastation is likely to be far worse than a marriage that ended through 'natural causes'.

I think she's very likely to be in a lot of pain. So the last thing she needed was a friend whose instinct was to tell her that her husband probably thought she was a 'cow and a drama queen' that he was 'fed up to the back teeth of'. I realise you didn't say those things, but what ever you DID say has probably hurt her, especially if you took the opportunity as you say to remind her of the bad things that in your opinion, she has done to her husband over the years.

This sounds like quite a competitive friendship and as though you've been nursing a bit of a grudge towards her for a long time, perhaps since she called you on your own behaviour. Being frank, you really don't sound as though you like her very much and no amount of calling her a 'dear friend' hides that.

She might be avoiding you not because she can't take criticism, but because your timing was terrible, because of the things you said and because you added to her pain. It might also have been a bit of a lightbulb moment that you're actually a "frenemy" and not a friend.

It does sound like a competitive friendship, and it does sound that this is about many other things such as hidden grudges etc.

And this lightbulb moment that you're actually a "frenemy" and not a friend could equally be an opportunity for her to see how she might be in the midst of outgrowing your friendship.

I lost one of my long-term friends recently in a similar situation. I told her she couldn't complain about being lonely and rejected when it was she who left her husband. I am still friends with her STBX husband and now his new partner, and she couldn't handle it. The original story is not one i will elaborate on here, but she is not an easy person to live with (as much as i love her) and she is blaming everyone else for the split rather than look at her part in it.
I have so much going on in my own marriage at the moment that IT is my priority, not her, and she didn't like it when i told her that.

I suspect given enough time and space we will be friends again, but it will never be the same and i mourn that.

Yes, a friend was talking about caring for terminally ill on/off boyfriend, yet also saying that she might up and go travelling any time she fancied.

I asked her if they had the kind of relationship which would justify her making that commitment, as I had known her over several years and through various troubles she had always presented herself as single/un-supported.

I also said that if she made a commitment to care for a dying man then, going on my recent family experience of terminal illness, then she had to honour that commitment and not swan off travelling at the drop of a hat.

Never saw her again after that evening!

No, I wouldn't comment on a friend's relationship in that way, beyond repeating back to them what they said and how they felt for them to think about e.g. 'you've been saying for a while you are not happy with X' or whatever.

I wouldn't lose a close friend of 25 years over this, I see my role as my friends' supporter, even if they are doing things differently than I might think is right.

The only time I would speak out is if I thought they were hurting someone else, so I have spoken up when a friend was going to marry someone she wasn't in love with, and that was a difficult conversation though we are still friends. So BranchingOut's situation I can see why something had to be said.

The odd gently put truth can be helpful, but I don't know what you said and from what you said about her being hard to live with/a bit of a cow, she doesn't really need to hear that whilst recovering from a marriage breakup.

If she's overwhelmingly needy, I'd rather back off a bit and have the answerphone on rather than be nasty (and is nasty to tell someone a few 'home truths').

I have.

I had a friend who went on and on and on about the shit marriage she was trapped in. Her husband was ridiculous, he'd come in from work and go straight up into the loft and chat to other women. To 'keep the peace' she'd make him his tea (he'd go down for it and then go back upstairs) and even got herself an msn messenger so she could still chat to him on an evening via laptop. If it wasn't so tragic it would be funny.

So yeah she started telling me this in 2007. Same story all the way through 2008. It got half way through 2009 and she started going on about it again and I was having a shitty day myself and just snapped. Told her her marriage was a joke. She was being ridiculous for allowing him to treat her like that and it had been 3 years of the same story - if she wasn't willing to do anything about it, maybe she should accept it.

She didn't speak to me for a year. The next time she called me, he'd began hitting her. This was 2011. He's 6ft1 and she is 5ft1. Bastard. I gave her as much help and advice as I could ... well I bumped into her at the shop last week and guess what - he's still spending all his time in the loft and still gives her a good hiding whenever she complains. I'm a shit friend maybe but my patience only stretches so far.

I was friends with 2 girls from age about 13 or so. We went to separate universities but ended up living within a few miles from each other. We'd meet up on a monthly basis for lunch and drinks etc. One of the friends was with a complete loser (she was quite a bit younger than him and he used to umm 'share' her with his friends, leave her destitute by taking her earnings and buying cigarettes and booze leaving her with no way to pay the rent etc). He proposed and she accepted.

The other friend and I spoke about this and decided that we needed to speak out and say that we were concerned about her. We did so and she called us bitches and left. We were invited to the wedding but the relationship was never the same. We never met up as a group again and my friendship with this woman never recovered. I haven't seen her in years (she's still with him, two kids, still destitute whilst he's indulging in his 'own business' fantasises and come to nothing) and I'm just fine with it.

The other woman and I are still really good friends.

When I said I'd told her home truths, I was perhaps exaggerating a bit.
You see over the years she has done some pretty rotten things to him- although she excuses her behaviour by always saying she acted in a response to whatever he did.

In our last conversation when she got huffy, I was trying to remind her that she is looking at the past- their marriage- with rose coloured specs, because it was never that great. I reminded her of some of the things she had done- just a couple- to try to get her to see herself less of a victim, and someone who had dished it out as well. Before he left, she would often appear really heartless about him, and had a kind of "He can take it or leave it" attitude to the relaitonship. It was blindingly obvious to lots of us that he might one day "leave it".

I'm just no good at giving all the sympathy when I feel she is also to blame for what has happened. I suppose the honest truth is that at times I felt she was OTT in her reactions to him- I don't want to say what she did- and some of the time my sympathies were with him. I suppose she expects friends to be 100% on her side- but I can't lie. :(

But you're speaking in forked tongues aren't you? If you've been friends for a long time, she will know that too.

You say your motive for reminding her of her wrongdoings (wrong in your opinion of course) was so she would feel less of a 'victim' but in the same breath you say that you wanted to tell her that her husband probably thinks she is a 'cow and a drama queen'.

So in your communication I'd guess that your real motive has leaked out and the one you say you had, hasn't been received that way. Having seen what you've written about her, I'm also a bit dubious that your motives were to help her feel better at what must be a very difficult time for her. It sounds more like you wanted to tell her that she's had this break-up coming to her for a long time.

As someone else said, you might have to accept that she doesn't want friendship if it comes like this. Do you have lots of other friends or have you relied too heavily on this one?

It doesn't sound as though she is prepared to listen to you.

I think in this instance you have to let her alone, so she can surround herself with people who agree with her. There is nothing you can really do.

I know if I am doing something I think is right, and someone (always my sister) tells me it's stupid, I tend to prefer her to keep her opinions to herself, but she cannot as she feels responsible for my life (I don't know why).

Even when she is right, I don't like hearing it. Sadly though I reacted apologetically last time, there was nothing I could do to reverse what I was doing/had done and so she is just keeping her distance and not speaking to me. I don't expect her support but it would be nice to have her friendship back.

Fwiw I have a friend who is in a similar position to yours apart from having done the leaving - and for very stupid reasons as far as I can see and she is really winding me up, because she has no idea what she is messing with, and how lucky she has been till now, and what is at stake - so I am avoiding being around her as I disagree with what she is doing, totally, but I would not want to say so as it's her life and not mine.

I think you have to step back.

I think there is a difference between explaining the home truths when they are happening with a view to helping her get some perspective on what is going on and therefore actually change it and slapping her down in a time of distress when she is being irritating and you feel you have bitten your tongue for too long. If it is a real friendship you'll get over it, if it was me I would want to apologise and explain.

Just to answer a few points- I do have other friends, am not reliant on her- she isn't on my doorstep anyway.
But she is one of my oldest friends and godmother to my DD.

I am being honest- yes, I feel she had this coming to her. I don't feel that is a criticism of her or shows that I care about her less- it's an observation on her behaviour and I did say things along these lines to her face before the split happened.

She has said very hurtful stuff to me in the past which I've got over- I'm not bearing any grudges for that and this is not a case of tit for tat as someone implied. But it nevertheless gave me the "courage" to speak my mnd, knowing she had done that to me. The difference is that I took it onthe chin, but she can't stand any criticism.

I've told people home truths but I tend to be quite straight, and I'm frustrated if people aren't straight with me! I feel let down if something was totally obvious to an outsider and they didn't say anything, giving me the chance to bash it out with them. I may not agree with them but I would appreciate them trying to help me get a more rounded view of the situation.

However, it has to be clear that this is how they see it, and not put across as fact. You can never know what goes on in marriages tbh, not really.

it's hard to reach a conclusion because you can't give details. I believe you that you say she is a 'dear friend' as we all have friends who have sides to them that we can't agree with but we love them nonethless. You can love someone but not necessarily love everything they do .

I'd tackle her straight on about what you said iiwy. but I would do that of course because that's how I am! If she's a forceful type - and also in a lot of pain - you may get it unadulterated, so prepare yourself: are you up for high voltage bashing it out with her? Someone mentioned upthread about it being an opportunity to grow, and crisis really is the chance to grow, if you want to. Not everybody wants to though.