Clashing with Dad over DS - A bit long.

[LittleBugsMum]

DS1 had colic until about 4 months and at the time it really did seem like he was constantly crying to other people but he was in pain. And it wasn't all the time, just when it started, it went on and on and on... I did get upset & stressed sometimes but all was ok.

I think from then my DF has had a problem with him. He's very nearly 3 now & he is a little bit naughty, mostly antagonistic towards DS2 (18 mths) and he can get a bit over excited, loud & boisterous. I can deal with it. He's a very imaginative, funny, interesting and wonderful little boy most of the time.

I feel like he only sees the bad in him, he's called him a 'psycho' and a 'devious bastard' (not in front of him) and often says he laughs at sadistic things. Because DF says it with a smile, it's like he's joking but he's not. It's all untrue and it not only upsets me but makes me really really angry with my DF.

It's got bad recently because after an incident at playgroup my DF thinks I should smack DS to teach him that if he hits, he gets hit back. I disagree with this completely & think it's hypocritical to teach that violence is wrong then hit him!

Once, DS threw a ball at DF and it hit him (not hard) and DF threw it back at him, hard, it hit him and made him cry. Another time, DS was playing with a net and said 'I'm going to get you with it' to DS2 and was waving it about and it caught DF slightly so he took from of him & swung it at him (lightly) hitting him in the chest. He wasn't hurt & he didn't cry but I can't stop thinking about it & it makes me furious. There have been other little incidents to a point where I will NEVER ask DF to look after DS1, not even while I'm upstairs.

I can't tell DH because he'll get horrible about it & I can say things about my father but I hate it when he does.

I don't know what to do or say now, I just feel like avoiding him but he calls at my house most days so it will be weird.

Incidentally, he adores his other grandchildren...

I think your Dad knows that you won't challenge him; he has a lot of sway over you still even as an adult.

I think if you were to to fall out with your Dad (and I think he would not take any reasoned argument at all well) it will be because of what he has previously done to your child; all you have then done is brought all this to a head.

Do you think your mother is on the right track here re your Dads motives?. I still think this is at heart about power and control and he exerting both over your child is completely unacceptable. I would also think he does not treat his other grandchildren in such a manner nor call any of them what you have heard him say.

In all honesty, you describe your own child as a bit 'naughty', realistically he is a total brat as far as anyone other than his parents are concerned. He is shocked by FILs treatment but wouldnt he fall into line if it was continued? Might teach him not to be such a nightmare

I think it is a total overreaction to be shouting abuse, like some on this thread are.

You have admitted your son can be very difficult, and the way you talk about dealing with him does seem a little bit soft. Maybe your DF is trying to add some balance. Now, of course its not his job to do so, and he is butting into your parenting style, but abuse? Really? Come on people, he's just trying to take a hard line to deal with some pretty poor behaviour.

The difficulty is that if your father disguises the jibes and bullying as joking or playing, it makes it difficult to confront him about it.

A hard line? what on earth is that about then? Who gives him the right to do this?

The last thing a challenging child needs is a hard line Red.

A challenging child needs even more love and support, never a damn smack, or the use of bulling tactics to make them conform.

Wrong, totally wrong approach in my opinion.

I'm not saying he's right MissFaversham. I'm just saying he's not abusive. OP needs to have a frank discussion with him about the best way to deal with her DS's behaviour, that's all. No need to ban all contact, how is that going to help in the long term?

No it isn't 'abuse' - I'm sure he thinks he's helping then gets annoyed when I tell him I don't want him to do it.

I seriously think he has a problem with THIS child and because of this he blows his behaviour up in his own mind.

DS is not a nightmare or a total brat and I have given you no evidence of such. I'm not a deluded mother. Seriously.

Ok RedHotPokers, how am I soft??? Lots of people say it to me and I don't think I am, sometimes I even feel too harsh. I honestly don't know how to be more strict other than smacking him and that's not happening. What do other mothers do that's not smacking but not soft?! I'm genuinely interested. I swear to God it's all I do, I'm a SAHM and I put the effing effort in.

I've just realised I should say all this to my Dad...

"I seriously think he has a problem with THIS child and because of this he blows his behaviour up in his own mind. "

But why would he do this?

My "problem" was the opposite-GPs thinking I wasn´t "soft" enough.

TBH-if lots of people tell you that you are soft-is it possible that you are?

What does your husband think about the behaviour & how to deal with it?

yes OP you should and good for you. You are not soft by never smacking. I have a no smacking rule too.

Your father seems "old school" and it's still not on at all.

If its any consolation a friend of mine had a boy that was by anyone elses judgement a total uncontrolled nightmare, she fought his corner, she never ever smacked him and he's absolutely fabulous now.

Your son is probably jealous of the younger one and needs more attention. Have you set aside time just for him?

To keep telling such a young child to "look after" the baby has a detremental effect mostly. He's also still a baby.

Really diddl in what way?

I force myself to be more harsh than comes naturally, that's why I think I'm not soft but maybe I am.

Thanks MissFaversham I love that - I'll always be in my dc's corner.

Are the other GC smacked, then & that´s why he´s OK with them?

Oh, only just noticed that he is mainly antagonistic to his brother

Could be jealousy, then.

Do you treat them differently?

I agree that he shouldn´t have to look after his sibling.

Does he have his own friends to play at all & must let his younger brother play also?

Does he get the chance to play alone if he wants?

Sweetheart, as far as i can see you are doing all the right things. Don't let people tell you to take a "hard line" it really isn't the way to go.

Your son will be fine due to your fab parenting skills

"Really diddl in what way?"

What that GCs thought I wasn´t "soft enough"

Well for example if he had thrown something at someone & I had told him no-they would have said it was OK as he was only playing.

If he was playing & wanted to get something else out & I wanted the first thing putting away first "he was only a baby" & shouldn´t have to do that.

I´m sure though that it was to undermine me so I just had to do the-well this is how I´m doing it ad nauseum.

Got to go now OP but another little thing is.. never fight fire with fire. Fire gets put out with water.

Not sure why I wanted to say that but I'm sure you will know what I mean

I have a lively DS, I don't think your Dad's approach is the right one. You need to talk to lively children, they are bright and you do need to be tough but the best way that I've found is to take away TV/Toys and reward any good behaviour rather than anger or aggression which just breeds more anger or aggression. It is unacceptable for your Dad to refer to your child as a Psycho. Next time he says anything like that just say. "Don't say that" and say it is unacceptable. Don't feed your Dad by saying anything else. If he doesn't like it he can fuck off. You are an adult, he should treat you and your children with respect.

I see a couple of things here. First, if your dad is in your house most days, these are not everyday incidents, I'm guessing (what he said/did). He's seeing your son a lot and concerned perhaps about jealousy/aggression. Second, you are still the parent, even if he comes by every day and takes on more of a parental role, so what you say in terms of what you eat/discipline/arrange has to be the way it is, even if he disagrees. Third, bring him up short on being rude, one of my PIL told me my daughter was 'hyperactive' and 'out of control' and if not disciplined would never cope at school. Of course, they had completely forgotten/not had much contact with three years olds and had really silly ideas about how well-behaved they might be, suffice to say my three year old manic toddler who used to run off is now a lovely polite well-behaved eight year old who is great in school. So, if he says, 'he's going psycho' or he's a 'devious bastard' immediately say 'don't say that Dad, I won't have you speak about one of my children like that'.

I think he's concerned about the aggression/jealousy, perhaps forgotten what it was like, is getting older and less tolerant anyway, and you need to set up very very firm boundaries about how he treats your son, or he will have to be less welcome in your home.

diddl There is only one other GC who isn't mine & yes, she gets smacked. All the time. It's pointless & it doesn't work.

I have loads of rules like that and 'zero tolerance' on things like hitting and throwing so if you're not soft enough & I'm too soft then that only proves that other people need to butt the hell out.

I do treat them differently because they are so different. DS2 is really loving and wants only me whereas DS1 is more independent and kind of resists my affection sometimes. Doesn't mean I stop giving it though. He doesn't have to look after his sibling, just be respectful & not too rough.

He plays alone (or with me) when ds2 has his nap in the afternoon so we do something together (like bake, puzzles or paint) if he wants to or he can play alone or watch a film - he decides but it's usually something with me & that's great. We have a routine.

G'night MissFaversham Well, I think a little fire is a good thing, if you keep an eye on it and the water handy

LIVELY!!! That's what he is. And yes, he's super bright. ohanotherone I do all that. We have a reward chart too. See I have it under control. Maybe I'm doing OK. Don't think I'll be using your exact words with DF though, might get a smack myself...

Yes, mumsyblouse Grandparents are close enough to get involved but not close enough to see everything that's going on and fully understand the relationships that I watch all day everyday. And 'less tolerant' in an understatement!

If anyone said such horrible things about my child I would not let them spend time with him.

Throwing a ball at him hard to hurt him is horrible and abusive.

Can you ask him to reflect on his behaviour to your ds?

I think you should tell you dp too. I don't think he would be unreasonable to say some harsh words about your df given the circumstances.

Your father's behaviour concerns you so much you wont leave your ds with him even if you are upstairs

He comes in to your house nearly every day

He calls him a psycho and is rough with him. He treats him differently to his other grandchildren.

You were sufficiently (and rightly) worried about his attitude to your THREE year old son to post on here but then you are at pains to defend him.

What hold does he have on you?

You are aware you are an adult? That your first responsibility is to your child, not your father? That if you continue to allow him to use wholly inappropriate disciplinary 'methods' your son will be damaged by this?

You need to understand and implement boundaries.

First step - tell df (as politely as you like, using an excuse if necessary if this is daunting for you) he can come round once a week, not every day.

Second step - challenge your df every time he makes the psycho 'jokes' or is unkind/rough with your son. You say: 'don't do/say that dad'.

Thirdly I would have a long, hard, honest look/think about your father and your relationship with him and his relationship with others (counselling?). I'd wager there's a lot of shit going on here - so much so that you'd rather minimise his behaviour than protect your son, even though your instinct is telling you loud and clear that his actions are not acceptable.

To those saying your son might have behaviour problems and /or you are too soft - there might be some truth but that is totally irrelevant when it comes to your dad's frankly shitty behaviour and attitude towards him.

Put your son first.

I am not minimising his behaviour, I've stated clearly what he has done and his attitude. I do put my son first. I always defend him, quite plainly in front of DF. That annoys DF but I need them both to know it's not ok. Then it gets forgotten. And I have to do it again the next time. That's why I posted, I feel stuck but it needs to be resolved.

My father does have a hold on me, he's my father. Don't they always make you feel 13 half of the time? I do (and will forever) stand up to him over my dc, I just wanted to discuss it here and it's helped so much. I don't just sit here feeling frustrated anymore.

I don't think DH would be unreasonable to be pissed off about this, I just don't think it will help to discuss it with him. It will just cause rows we don't need at the moment.

Your father is and adult-how can he forget that you have told him not to do/say certain things where your children are concerned?

TBH, unless he is looking after your children or you are not around, he should just butt out of disciplining imo.

Why would it not help to tell your husband-does he not deserve to know?

Would he not help to present a "united front"? or do you only see your dad without him?

I think you are down playing it - though I appreciate you want to vent on here and discuss.

Your father is acting like a bully.

You say 'my father does have a hold on me, he's my father'. Do you know that not everyone else feels like that or lives like that?

I have fairly toxic parents (mum more than dad) but I see them a lot (they are both fantastic with my dc). I manage it by holding them at arm's length, having clear boundaries and absolutely not budging on what I believe in. I think they are quite scared of me now which is no bad thing - both have tendencies to be selfish, guilt trippy and in my mum's case, emotionally damaging. So I'm all over them like a rash.

Diddl - Your father is and adult-how can he forget that you have told him not to do/say certain things where your children are concerned?. Absolutely - couldn't agree more.

I do wonder if you would benefit from counselling. To be frank your relationships with both your DH and father don't sound totally healthy. You keep secrets from your DH to avoid arguments, and fail to strictly enforce your boundaries over child discipline with your father. It would do you a lot of good to look at both relationships in a safe but through way (where you can't too easily duck out of the awkward questions).