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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

This is inappropriate, isn't it?

70 replies

nowanexpertloounblocker · 10/07/2012 15:40

Would love to list all of the reasons why I despise my FIL at the moment, as I really need to let off steam but it would go on and on and I'm worried about outing myself in RL although I doubt any of the in laws would be on here and this would probably out me anyway.

He lives across the other side of the country and visits when it suits him with his wife. He has a long history of being unfaithful to his string of partners, leaving DH's mum for her friend and abandoning DH and siblings, impregnating the next wife and then having no contact with his next child, and has now been married to his current wife for a good few years although is apparently having an affair with a 25 year old (I don't think this is true though he would if he could, he has a bit of a habit of living in a fantasy land and for whatever reason I think he thought saying this would impress people).

I recently found out that last year he had made a completely inappropriate sexual comment to my cousin's wife on a family holiday. My cousin's wife hadn't told me about this, she is very shy and probably knew it would cause trouble if she told people. I am really angry that he would dare to make sexual comments to a member of my family, a woman married to my cousin and a mother of three young children. He has caused enough damage to his own dysfunctional family, how dare he try to seep poison into my family! I have bitten my tongue as, by the same note, I feel unable to 'cause trouble', especially as we have recently cut other members of DH's family out of our lives for different reasons.

Whilst he was staying up here with his wife, I said nothing about it although I feel as if steam is coming out of my ears with the effort. At one point I was standing in the kitchen alone. He came in, and after a short while asked me if I could undo his belt buckle for him because he couldn't do it. He asked in a perfectly friendly and casual tone of voice, which I feel was intentional. I feel like he tries to push boundaries to gage what kind of reaction he would get, and makes comments which he knows that he would be able to deny any kind of sexual intent involved if the woman involved kicked up a fuss. I responded by shouting 'DH, come and undo your dad's belt buckle for him, he can't do it himself'. I have since told DH how angry I am and what a cunt I think his dad is, and whilst DH says he knows that this comment was inappropriate, he hasn't said anything else about it. In fact he said, 'what do you want me to do, cut him out like I cut my mum out?' As if I am the evil daughter in law trying to isolate him from his lovely family. I really really feel that his comment was intentionally sexual and I am disappointed with myself for not being more assertive. I believe that he thinks that he is god's gift to women, and he is honestly far below average in every way you can imagine. He would, for example, in the mornings go to the spare room and get changed into clean socks, jeans and even put a belt on but then walk around the house topless for hours. I'm not a prude, but I found it laughable that he purposefully went shirtless as he clearly thinks his body is a lovely treat for the ladies.

In other ways, I despise him and his wife because they are users and takers. They have very little interest in their son. We have recently experienced a rough few months, a miscarriage, DH was suspended for a long time from work and has only just been reinstated, death in the family etc however none of this was mentioned. FIL emailed me to tell me he was coming to stay with us and actually wrote within the email that 'it will have to be a cheap weekend I'm afraid as I'm skint' (he lost his job a few months ago). Fair enough but why act as if he would usually wine and dine us because that is not the case. We are skint, I'm on maternity leave, and what would usually happen is that I would cook for everyone and that is exactly what happened on this visit. I cooked lots of homemade meals to a chorus of 'I'm hungry, it's 2pm, oh I'm so hungry, there's not enough bacon in this carbonara' (his wife), made sure they had towels etc which were then left screwed up next to the bath (FIL).

I became sick to death of their bragging about their expensive hair cuts, all the shows they have been going to and expensive meals they have. They just wanted to go shopping, and look at houses to buy or rent up here (NOOO) as in big six bed houses completely out of their budget. DH fucking panders to them and was actually driving them round so they could look at these huge houses they can't afford, why? It makes them worse when they believe they have an audience of people who think they are the people they want to be.

I am sick of their fantasy lives. We all know they aren't well off, he hasn't got a job but when he did he would pretend he was a huge high flier head of everything raking it in, they haven't paid off the capital of their mortgage although are not too far from retirement, although do choose to live this lifestyle of theatres, hotels, and meals that they can't afford.

Well, I have definitely outed myself in anyone in RL reads this. Didn't mean to speak about anything other than the belt buckle thing but I couldn't seem to stop myself. Will probably have to ask to have this thread removed later on but just wanted to hear from someone, anyone, even if it's to say that I'm being bitchy and over the top.

OP posts:
akaemmafrost · 10/07/2012 17:17

You are going to need to be very assertive out and out rude to these people especially FIL.

Mine (ex thankfully) would be like this if he was allowed to be (not the harassment). He hates women he is not blood related too ie his wife and Ex DIL (me). Doesn't see them as quite human, just there to service and submit to him Angry.

I was/am painfully, obviously rude to him, as he has been to me. I just get in there first now. The phrase "don't be ridiculous!" is your friend here and you must use it to counter all nonsense on their part. Do not be afraid. Luckily my ex used to laugh when I took his Dad on (never intervened or stuck up for me though). So that might be a problem. Whatever you're thinking, say it! No matter how rude. Honestly it's the only way with people like this.

nowanexpertloounblocker · 10/07/2012 19:55

Thanks everyone, you've reassured me that I'm not just attempting a character assassination. DH's family are all poison. We have just cut his mum and brothers out of our lives. They are far worse than FIL and his wife for different reasons but it just makes it more difficult to be more assertive with FIL because that's the only other person DH has in his family. But FIL is toxic, so why should I put up with his leeching and general dickheadness forever just to keep DH happy? And why would DH not feel angry with his FIL after this last visit? DH should feel as unhappy as me about how his FIL has behaved but he clearly just wants me to stop talking when I've brought up how angry I am.

Things are really difficult between me and DH currently as it is due to his own behaviour. I know this is more of an issue than anything to do with FIL but have not felt able to post about DH so far. I can't help feeling at the moment that perhaps DH is actually as toxic as the rest of his family. The reason why he was suspended from work was because of his flirtatious behaviour with female colleagues, and I have had to read through HR statements and the whole HR investigation which details over pages and pages how DH has behaved. I would consider his actions to constitute him having been unfaithful towards me. At the time I was pregnant with DS. Yet it is me who has bore the brunt of his actions. Me who has felt sick every day and can't eat because the thought of him and what he has done goes round and round in my head, me who lead the investigation for him and ensured that he was able to return to work, he hasn't really acted like he is remorseful, he has been acting like a sulky child and has actually been quite manipulative. Immature manipulation such as indicating that he will just leave if I 'keep going on about it all' and that 'we need to move forward', indicating pretty much that my options are to shut up about it all and assume that in future he is always telling the truth about everything all the time and be nice at all times and not a nag, or he leaves.

I just keep seeing aspects of his dad in him. Initially, my knee jerk reaction when I found out that DH was suspended and the reasons for this (as he managed to keep his suspension secret from me for 8 weeks) was that I just wanted him back and for everything to just go back to how it was. I suppose it was the familiarity of having the same partner and the same person around all the time and just an immediate reaction to having that taken away.

But this was about 2 months ago and as time has gone on I have started to think more and more about how DH really is, how his family really are, and what I want for myself and DS. Do I want a man who, like his father, may be manipulative, a user, a flirt etc, and put up with this because it's easier in the short term than losing him? Or do I deserve a man who is honest, and puts in equally to our relationship. It's like since DH did this, I have started to really consider what kind of a man he is. I always knew that I would have to be the bread winner, be responsible for bills and finances, renewing car insurance and direct debits etc, all the practical things, because he is irresponsible. But I always thought he was a nice man who would never do anything to jeapordise our relationship. But it seems like he's just like the rest of his toxic useless family.

Sorry I know I have gone off on a complete tangent and this is all irrelevant. It's just been building up inside me for weeks, and I haven't been able to talk to anyone about DH simply because I know what I'd say if a friend was telling me that their DH had done this.

OP posts:
ShirleyKnot · 10/07/2012 20:14

Oh you poor thing. Sad

Well, I commented earlier about my yucky FIL and it turned out that his son, my XH was a chip off the old block, and we're no longer together.

I think that the initial shock, panic and fear of your husbands disgraceful behaviour is finally wearing off and you're suddenly looking at him with fresh eyes.

Your DH is NOT handling this properly. (mine was unfaithful with a 'friend' and when we got back together it was made very clear that it was not to be discussed ever again despite my pain)

I'm so sorry.

ShirleyKnot · 10/07/2012 20:15

And when you say flirtatious behaviour are we really talking about sexual harassment? Sad

amillionyears · 10/07/2012 20:18

Poor you.I was rather afraid of what you had just written,because i couldnt quite see how your DH would have escaped unscathed emotionally from your DHs family.
I think only you can decide what to do about your DH and his actions.At least with that report,assuming it is correct, you have "evidence" of what your DH gets up to when you are not around,so you can make an informed decision.
It is a shame that he isnt coming across as being remorseful.Do you think he is,and is being defensive,or does he not really see where he is behaving inappropriately.

carlywurly · 10/07/2012 20:55

Oh dear. I really feel for you. They all sound awful, and you sound lovely.

It must be very hard and incredibly hurtful to stand by someone who's been accused of that kind of behaviour. You don't have to, you know.

You'll always be making excuses for a man like this. He sounds irresponsible and immature, and you really don't need to put up with it. Are you getting anything from this relationship?

nowanexpertloounblocker · 10/07/2012 21:12

Shirley, yes initially it was being treated as sexual harrassment but he was reinstated after it became apparent that the flirtation was in fact reciprocated by this woman. Sorry to have explained it all so vaguely, I suppose I just feel ashamed that this was the reason he was suspended. And it doesn't really make it much better that he didn't sexually harass anyone, DH seems to think that it's all over now, he has his job back (well in fact he got reinstated and immediately got a new job, there was no way I was letting him return to the same workplace) and that we can move on. But in fact, no it's not all over. He might not have 'harrassed' anyone but in my mind their flirtation was disgusting. I would rather he had snogged a woman whilst drunk on a night out than a build up over months of little comments to each other, telling her she looked sexy today, allowing her to smack his bum when she would walk past him. Actually I can't even write about it any more because it really makes me feel sick.

I must be an idiot. Why on earth wouldn't he be like his dad? Why on earth would I stay with a man who would do that to his pregnant wife when there are so many men in this world who are good, honest men.

He has said sorry, but completely not acted sorry. It's him who implies that he will be packing his bags and leaving when I'm 'just going on about it all again' and in fact has actually packed his bags a couple of times. He acted like a coward and chose to lie to me for weeks and weeks about his suspension and lied again when caught out, and again, and again. He acts as if all of the HR statements and report is lies when it's clearly there in black and white and clearly a thorough report. He expects me to carry on running round after him, being the strong one sorting out his messes whilst looking after the baby. If I am acting down he moans about how moody I am all the time and what's the point of staying together when I'm so moody and horrible. He knows I can't really eat or sleep, I have lost so much weight since having DS, I feel so insecure that I have been dressing completely over the top with my hair and make up done each day and high heels on and he doesn't seem worried that I feel this way. I just feel like, what am I doing, why am I putting myself through all this humiliation for this man, who comes from a family of horrible people and really seems like a horrible person himself at the moment. I don't think that he was always like this, but then again he could have been this way behind my back for years and it just so happens that this was the first time he was caught.

I tried to speak about this with FIL's wife when she was here, and her reaction was that 'he is a man, that's what men do'. I replied that actually it isn't, it isn't what the men I choose to associate with do, and it's not what the men in my family do. She said that she and FIL met through work and he was in a relationship at the time and 'these things just happen'. So if DH was to meet another girl in work in the future and leave me and DS for her, that would be ok? I'm sure I have my answer, I know I would hear nothing from his family if we split, and it doesn't even matter really in the grand scheme of things.

OP posts:
rollingfog143 · 10/07/2012 21:26

Why has your DH cut his mum out of his life but keeps contact with this dreadful man?

ShirleyKnot · 10/07/2012 21:27

It's not your shame. You have done NOTHING to be ashamed of. That must have been incredibly hard to have to read reports of his disgusting, inappropriate behaviour - how terrible for you to have to endure this while you were pregnant. What a massive betrayal of your trust.

You are not an idiot - not by a long chalk. You write with intelligence and self awareness, something that appears to be grossly lacking in your H.

You say that this all happened only a few months ago? The brushing under the carpet and manipulation (packing his bags? Fuck me, next time he tries that one I would LET HIM GO) is horrendous.

I feel dreadfully sad reading your posts, the desire to please him by dressing up for him when you have a baby to think of (What I mean is that you shouldn't HAVE to be worrying about this sort of shit FFS - you should be allowed to slob about in a tracksuit looking like crap during the first few difficult months of motherhood - not all of this)

ARGH - Well, I'm sorry but I'm going to say it...Leave The Bastard.

Of course, if you want to try some counselling, by all means give it a bash - but if his father is anything to go by (and my own experiences both in RL and from reading these sort of threads) there will be next to little point.

Honestly I feel so angry for you.

amillionyears · 10/07/2012 21:34

Im feeling for you.sounds like everything has hit you now,now that you have seen your DH in the context of his family.
If you can,I would try and keep fil and mil out of the picture.I would try and think of them as being in the background to all this.And I wouldnt ask their opinion about your DH as they are likely to answer incorrectly.
So now about your DH.For the record,not all men are like their dads.And even yours doesnt sound like his behaviour is as bad as his dads.For instance,as far as you know,he hasnt been unfaithful.And he hasnt left his kids.And And.
I think,up to this point,you have left him get away with things.It sounds like you didnt really see them properly until now.
I think you need to take some time to think through what you would like to do.
In an ideal world,he would see what an idiot he has been,be remorseful,stop the lying,be loving to you,and see you for the lovely person you appear to be.
Instead,he is still acting idiotically.
I think you need time to construct a list of ground rules of what you want from him,and may be put a time frame on it.Assuming it hasnt gone past that stage already.

msrisotto · 10/07/2012 21:35

It sounds like your DH is a chip off the old block and you might grow to despise him as much as his dad.

luzluz · 10/07/2012 21:46

OP, can you leave? Could you go to your parent's for a while to work things through on your own?

If my DH had ever done anything like that he would be out for good.

The PIL sound very creepy - you need some TLC with a tiny baby not all this shite. Hope you get some space and peace soon.

rollingfog143 · 10/07/2012 22:17

sorry Xpost!

twolittlemonkeys · 10/07/2012 22:40

Wow, you have seriously awful ILs, esp your FIL. :( But then I read about your DH and my heart just sank for you. I would certainly need some time apart from DH to think in your shoes. Can understand why you've brushed it under the carpet to an extent, given your situation - pregnant then new baby - you've got enough on without trying to confront the trust issues in your relationship. Sadly it does sound like history is going to repeat itself if you carry on down this path. :(

nowanexpertloounblocker · 10/07/2012 22:42

Thank you so much, all of you, for your support. I have wanted to write on here about all this for so long, but I knew what people would say and don't think I felt strong enough a few weeks ago to hear it.

I just feel so worn down by everything at the moment. I am so angry at DH for what he has done, I know I keep going on and on, asking question after question about this woman, asking who he is on shift with at his new job, if they are a woman, how old are they, what do they look like, are they single etc. All DH says is that 'we' have to move on and that I am preventing this. But I don't feel that he has really tried to give me any reassurance or answers about what he did or why he did it. I feel that he is being manipulative, placing the onus on me to move on rather than him supporting me and making changes so that I am able to move on. There has never been any crying and profuse apologies, just sullen apologies stated in the manner of a child being told off 'I can't say I'm sorry any more than I have already'. There hasn't really been any thank yous for having him reinstated in his job other than when I've told him that he should be grateful that I stood by him and fixed things for him (he wouldn't have been reinstated otherwise, he had just buried his head in the sand and ignored HR calls etc and would have had that stigma forever).

Every time I get angry, or bring up how much he has hurt me recently, he just says that in that case he will move out and that he obviously can't make me happy - as if this were just about our relationship dynamics rather than that I am unhappy because of what he has done. In fact, I brought this whole thing up earlier, he is in work now and has been sending text messages saying that he will just move in with some man from work who has a spare room. I have ignored them and they are followed by more texts like 'well don't you agree? I obviously can't make you happy'. And just now by a message saying that 'Ignoring me is not the best way to deal with things, you're not happy and I'm not happy. I know it's my fault but it's the best thing for all of us'.

It is just the same arguments with the same outcome every time. These messages are mind games. He thinks he can call my bluff, knows I panic however much I don't want to that our relationship will be over, he will probably come home from work, we'll argue or ignore each other and then argue and I'll cry and go on about how awful what he did has been for me and how it has made me feel etc etc etc and he will mainly be silent and eventually agree that we should try and move on, but with no actual resolution to how we can do it.

I have tried setting ground rules, being specific about what he needs to do to change, asked if we can go to counselling (which he agrees to reluctantly at the time then later refuses) but I don't believe he will change, I have no trust in him. I just feel like it's me who is jumping through hoops, me who has had to be strong, and him who is sleeping at night and doesn't have to worry about trusting me because I am always just there to deal with everything and surely now he must feel that he can do what he wants and treat me how he likes because I am still with him and haven't stuck to all these ultimatums I have thrown at him.

I just don't know how I feel. Despite him being such a little shit and all my anger I think I still love him and it really panics me to think of us splitting up. But at the same time, why would I want to stay in such a shit relationship being treated like this and always worrying about him and other women?

OP posts:
nowanexpertloounblocker · 10/07/2012 23:43

He's still sending manipulative text messages, now asking stuff like 'have you thought about what you want to do with our furniture? shall we sell it or do you want it for your new house?' I can't believe I'm married to someone so emotionally abusive, and yet again getting drawn into these stupid mind games.

OP posts:
gingerpig · 10/07/2012 23:58

I'm really sorry I haven't got something more constructive to offer, but he sounds like such a twat. it's all about him. he doesn't want to face his behaviour or take responsibility for it. I so wish you could tell him up stuff all his stupid manipulative texts up his arse. you sound so lovely, you deserve better then this SadAngry

msrisotto · 11/07/2012 06:58

God he's a dickhead. I'm glad you can see this behaviour for what it is.

amillionyears · 11/07/2012 07:53

I am no expert on this,but sometimes I wonder whether people that do this are really saying,that they are actually frightened that the other person will do it.
If you said,well I will take that piece and you can have the other piece,Im thinking he might be gutted.
Sounds to me like he knows he has been an idiot,and is scared of what you intend to do next.
In your last post,he does say that he knows that it is his fault.
I think you need to present him with a list,such as you will say sorry for x and mean it,and we will be having counselling.I have rung up y and they can see us in 2 months.And if you dont do these things,I am going to seperate.

amillionyears · 11/07/2012 08:01

One further thing.I would try not to keep comparing him to your fil.To be fair to your DH,it doesnt sound like his behaviour is at the same level as his dads.

nowanexpertloounblocker · 11/07/2012 08:15

Thanks, I agree he isn't as bad as FIL, he does things for other people and he doesn't expect me to pander to him as FIL expects his wife to, I am clearly the dominant one in our relationship ie makes decisions and in charge of finances etc. But I do see some of the negative qualities of his FIL reflected in DH, the lying even when caught out, propensity to be unfaithful (if he hasn't been already) and like his FIL I think he has a tendency to think he is more intelligent/his opinion is more highly thought of than it really is. He did come home from work last night but didn't come into the bedroom, he is still asleep in the spare room. He maintained through his idiotic text messages last night that he was going to move in with a work colleague as we are obviously both unhappy, followed by texts about the furniture, followed by lots of 'well? Don't you agree that this is for the best? Don't you agree?' Texts. I know what he's doing, I've had the same scenario so many times over the past few months. I told him that if that's how he feels then ok, I'm sure today will involve a long protracted discussion which will be all about whether he is happy or unhappy and within that conversation he may grudgingly say that he will change but that I need to work on moving on, or he may actually move out if I really don't say anything which may stop him, ie bow to his manipulation about how he can feel happy again.

OP posts:
AlmostAHipster · 11/07/2012 08:23

Oh you poor thing! You must be going through Hell.

They say the apple never falls far from the tree :(

In your shoes, honestly, I would leave. The pressure on you is intolerable and these disgusting people are spoiling the first few months with your newborn. You should be able to focus entirely on your baby and I fear, if you stay, that you'll look back at this time, in years to come, and not remember the beautiful little things about your child because they're eclipsed by the dirty waters your DH and his family swirl up in your face. I speak from experience.

You don't deserve any of this. You are not at fault here. You know the right thing to do.

amillionyears · 11/07/2012 08:23

Does he truly get how unhappy he is making you?

fiventhree · 11/07/2012 08:28

Can I quote you

"but I don't believe he will change, I have no trust in him".

What does that tell you?

fiventhree · 11/07/2012 08:34

Also, all this childish guff from your h about moving out? What is he, 15?

Your h is a manipulative liar, and an immature arse. He is taking no real responsibility for his actions.

He has no intention at all of moving out, not for good t any rate. It is just his way of grabbing your attention and trying to take back power in the relationship. He wants t keep you on edge so that you are worried that he will leave, and "shut the fuck up."

My personal opinion is that he will do this again, given his behaviour, how he deals with conflict and difficult situations both with you and others, and given his parentage.