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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Dh is angry I am undermining him

69 replies

Spink · 09/07/2012 20:56

And I need help getting perspective.

He has always had a bit of a temper. Not physical but shouting, banging around. When he gets angry talking is impossible and winds him up. Sometimes I can see I totally contribute to this as I am frustrated with his reaction and say so, which escalates things. He then tends to leave the room, angrily.

One of our flashpoints is that dh is fed up with ds's 'naughtiness' and often shouts at him. Ds is 5. I think he is too harsh and that he loses his temper with ds too often. Dh thinks I am too soft. Sometimes I can see dh is getting close to blowing and rather unhelpfully try to intervene. Tonight, bedtime, ds mucking around, I went up once, he had a warning and then carried on, I then went up & took a toy away. Dh was upstairs at the time and when ds complained about the toy dh came in and started to tell ds off. He seemed to me to getting angrier and ds said 'ok I'm going to sleep now' and turned away. Dh continued talking (angrily) and I wanted him to stop as I thought I could see it escalating. I said something like 'dh I think ds understands now' and dh stormed out, swearing at me about my undermining him. I said that I was sorry but I didn't trust his temper. He said 'fuck you' and left the house.

I feel guilty that I undermined him and see his point that i was unhelpful. I also am pissed off that he is acting as though his temper is fine.

I don't know what to do. Anything I suggest is met with 'you do what you want, you know best'. Apart from his temper he is a lovely pa.

OP posts:
ImperialBlether · 09/07/2012 20:58

But can't you see that his temper must terrify your son? What kind of good father does that?

He sounds like a complete bully and you sound as though you let him get away with it for a quiet life. I'm not blaming you there, but please don't say he's a good father.

ImperialBlether · 09/07/2012 21:00

Your son will feel he's walking on eggshells all the time. When his dad reads to him or plays with him, he'll be just waiting for the temper tantrum to start. And he knows that you can't intervene to help him. How powerless must be feel?

I wonder whether he's naughty to bring the tension to a head. I remember that feeling when I was growing up - I'd bring on the fight because the tension beforehand was unbearable.

CommunistMoon · 09/07/2012 21:03

This doesn't really sound like normal behaviour to me. I do accept that plenty of couples are feisty, but 'fuck you'? Has he spoken to you like that before?

Lucyellensmum12345 · 09/07/2012 21:03

You dont know what to do? I do - lock the door and change the locks!!!

But, i do see the other side of this, this is a mirror of what happens in our house - DP thinks im too harsh, i KNOW he is too soft! He undermines me all the time and i cannot begin to describe the utter frustration it causes me. I am ashamed to say that it has made me blow up in front of my DD. It is wrong though, i shouldnt do this, i should hold my tongue and talk to DP about it later.

Saying that, it is no excuse, he is scaring you so your son must be terrified, he needs to deal with his anger and soon. I am awaiting counselling for anxiety, i will also be addressing my temper as it is not acceptable and i know this.

neuroticmumof3 · 09/07/2012 21:04

He sounds like an abusive bully to me. How horrid for your ds to be shouted at like that. Not only will he feel powerless but he is highly likely to hold himself responsible for his father's behaviour. This is not a healthy environment for you or your child.

Bluestocking · 09/07/2012 21:11

"Apart from his temper he is a lovely pa"?
You must be aware that for a five year old child there is no "apart from his temper". As Imperial says, all the time that your husband is impersonating "a lovely pa", your poor little son will be on eggshells waiting for the temper tantrum to start, and knowing that not only can you not intervene to help him, but that his father will also be abusive to his mother as part of his display of temper. He sounds like a horrible bully. My dad was like this and I was well into my thirties before I stopped being absolutely terrified of him. You have to address this now.

Original poster
Spink · 09/07/2012 21:12

I guess it feels important for me to say that he can be a good father because I want to give a whole picture .. Impossible on a thread like this i know. But the fact he can be so incredibly patient and engaged and loving makes the temper seem so ... bloody wasteful.
His anger doesn't come from absolutely nowhere, ds is, well, 5 and can do very annoying things. And dh overreacts. In terms of tension, I don't know, I don't think there has been any today, when he is not angry dh is generally fine, not snappy or short, and he and I get on fine. As soon as the anger appears I get worried and on alert. It goes from nothing to rage in seconds, rather than being a bubbling under for ages kind of thing.

OP posts:
Pumpster · 09/07/2012 21:15

Living on eggshells waiting for the next blow up is no life, I've lived it.

Not going to say leave the bastard but don't normalise or justify his behaviour, it's really not ok.

Original poster
Spink · 09/07/2012 21:17

Blimey, took me ages to write that and a load of posts appeared in the interim.. Ok. I know I need to do something. What do I do? We are both acting unhealthily. I am too churned up to think straight and would like help thinking through what I say and do to help us make changes.

OP posts:
Lucyellensmum12345 · 09/07/2012 21:18

5 year olds are annoying - your DH is an adult! t goes from 0-rage in seconds, seriously, you need to leave this man, how long before this becomes physical?

Pumpster · 09/07/2012 21:20

Do you find yourself diffusing situations because you're scared of his anger?

Original poster
Spink · 09/07/2012 21:22

Communistmoon, no, not said that before. He said it in response to me saying 'I don't trust you to control your temper'. He feels emasculated by me. He sees a problem in his anger but also believes in 'discipline' and I don't think he knows what to do either, but won't admit it.

He hasn't sworn at me like that before but told me he 'hates this family' and things like that before when in the middle of a rage. Generally he tries to get away from me when he is angry. Which makes sense on the one hand but makes it hard to sort things out. he always apologises but that doesn't help sort the problem.

OP posts:
Original poster
Spink · 09/07/2012 21:26

Pumpster, I try not to because there are plenty of times when he doesn't get angry and I don't want to get into a cycle of expecting it and then fuelling it. But I do expect some anger every day at least once.

OP posts:
Pumpster · 09/07/2012 21:31

I don't know what to suggest. My ex calmed down when he was prescribed anti psychotics for his mental health issues. Eventually I left him and we get on quite well now. But I really feel for you because I know how it feels and how normal it becomes. And how a 'good day' is one where they have been calm and normal.
Does he think you are like your child and need to keep your place? Because it does sound like it.

CommunistMoon · 09/07/2012 21:31

If he does acknowledge that his anger is a problem, would he consider getting some help e.g. counselling? I am concerned that you say he shows anger on a daily basis - how long has this been the case? Do you have any worries about it escalating?

tribpot · 09/07/2012 21:31

He feels emasculated by me.

That old chestnut. You're not meant to be able to challenge him on it because how would you know what emasculation feels like? Sorry - this sounds like the language of a manipulator to me.

But I do expect some anger every day at least once.
This is not normal.

Original poster
Spink · 09/07/2012 21:32

Lucyellens, I don't know how to answer that. I totally believe he would not be physically aggressive. If I thought that, I would leave him. If he was violent I would leave him. I know I can't predict that, but if it ever happened I would go.

The bizarre thing, seeing this written down, is that I feel terrible, that I am misrepresenting him. But I know that his anger is too much and that it is not ok. This is making me feel horribly sad.

OP posts:
ChippingInNeedsCoffee · 09/07/2012 21:34

Who was undermining who here? Weren't you the one dealing with it in the first place??

He needs to go on an Anger Management course - or something. You and DS can't live with him like this.

Pumpster · 09/07/2012 21:34

Anger can be just as harmful as physical aggression though.

Hassled · 09/07/2012 21:35

Some anger at least once a day is a long way off the realms of normal. I know it's normal for you at this stage, but really - it's just not how normal people live.

Nothing you've said makes me think you're in any way to blame for any of this. You need to stop shifting the blame onto yourself.

I assume he's able to control his temper with his boss and his mates? This isn't a "poor diddums, he can't help himself" thing - this is a "he can't be arsed to control his temper with you/actively doesn't want to control his temper with you" thing.

bananaistheanswer · 09/07/2012 21:35

You could suggest you both go on a parenting course together, seeing as you both have different approaches to discipline. Your OH needs to realise that shouting/bullying like that doesn't improve behaviour. He could also seek help with his anger.

If he won't speak to you, or walks away from you when angry, not resolving things properly, then write him a letter explaining that there are problems that need to be addressed, and suggest you both attend parenting classes to try and find a middle ground that you are both comfortable with in terms of parenting/discipline. And you also need to mention his temper, that you and DS are walking on eggshells waiting for him to explode, and that's not a healthy way for either of you to live. Ask him to seek help with that too.

PooPooInMyToes · 09/07/2012 21:36

The important thing is what he thinks about it . . . does he believe that shouting like that is ok? Does he think it is the best way to parent? Does he want to change?

If he doesn't like the way he loses his temper and wants to change and is willing to go to anger management then there is no need to do as some have suggested and lock him out or leave him.

You get mums on here all the time saying that they shout at their children too much and no one suggests that they should leave the family home or that its a matter of time before they became violent Hmm There's some serious double standards on mn!

If on the other hand he thinks shouting and shouting and shouting is perfectly reasonable and the right way to bring up a child, has no intention of changing or getting help then you have a big decision to make.

ShirleyKnot · 09/07/2012 21:40

Anger every day?

No, darling, that isn't normal. It really, really isn't.

drjohnsonscat · 09/07/2012 21:42

Is your son terrified? It sounds more as if it's a loss of perspective by your dh that's enraging for you and that needs work but not necessarily a precursor to abuse which is where some posters are going with this.

I grew up in a shouty house but that's not the same as abuse. Not saying yr DH is approaching this right but don't think we automatically need to be worried about shouting and anger. Loss of control yes but not anger per se.

His passive aggressive response to you is not helpful though.

PooPooInMyToes · 09/07/2012 21:43

He could, if he wanted, get referred for anger management though his Dr.