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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Husband, finances and the house

50 replies

NiniLegsInTheAir · 06/07/2012 19:05

This will be long and complicated so I apologise for that. This is a subject that's really bugging me and having a negative effect on my marriage. My NSDH is EA, I know that much, he has been PA in the past and I think he might be FA aswell.

We bought our house 3 1/2 years ago, on a 5 year fixed rate mortgage. It was a bit of a tip (liveable, but lots of things need doing to it), and we were both in agreement that we'd do it up in those 5 years, then sell it on.

As far as finances go (I've posted on this before), he earns slightly more than I do, we contribute equally to bills. I also contribute towards his travel as its very expensive (he works some distance away, no alternative route of travel). In the run up to our wedding I ended up with almost £2k on my credit card - I paid for most of the wedding stuff, he was totally disinterested so aside from the main purchases (venue etc), I bought everything. His attitude was 'if you want it, you buy it'. If only I'd had MN at the time. Sad.

It took me quite a while to pay off that credit card (we've been married 3 years). I then fell pregnant (DD is 18 months) and the majority of baby stuff was bought by me. When I went on maternity leave I was buying at least 90% of baby food, nappies, wipes etc, and only on maternity stat pay while also still paying half the bills. I ended up in the top limit of my overdraft (still paying it off now). I now keep a very detailed spreadsheet of all my outgoings and my overdraft is coming down slowly.

Still with me? While this was all going on, NSDH was squirreling away his money into savings. I discovered recently by looking at his paperwork (we have separate bank accounts at my wish), that he has about £4k of savings. He also gets an annual bonus, some of which goes into the house, some into savings, some on things for himself. I don't get bonuses or overtime so can't earn more money (although I would love to). His attitude is that he works for his bonus so it's his to spend as he wishes.

But house improvements have ground to a halt. We started having the bathroom done last October when his bonus came in and its still not finished. I had to arrange everything with plumber, tiler etc as he just doesn't bother. I got annoyed not long ago as the shower hadn't gone in so arranged it to be fitted (although NSDH paid for most of it). The lights in the bathroom don't work due to poor fittings but he can't be bothered to ring the electrician - unless I ring him it won't be fixed. I keep walking round the house seeing so much that needs to be done and it really gets me down. Sad. We have no storage (our lack of wardrobe space is what caused our argument that resulted in his hitting me 2 months ago, posted here at the time. Still no wardrobe). The kitchen needs ripping out. The garden is a tip. Very manky carpets in some places.

It's not that I don't contribute to the house. I always buy the small things (we needed a bread bin, I bought it. I buy all DD's clothes and toys, and still most of her nappies/wipes etc). I just can't contribute as much I'd like to big things as I don't have the cash. I have suggested to NSDH that we take out a small bank loan to get these improvements done, he refused. If ever I mention getting something in the house done, he just says 'you pay for it then' when he knows I can't do it alone. When we do get improvements done its because he decides it's time - and he decides what we get done. He also refuses to do any kind of DIY, so I do some things, and we have to get professionals in to do the rest. When we argue about anything he always tells me I 'only want him for his money'. Sad

I'm really frustrated. I hate living here (our neighbours are a nightmare on both sides), I hate being in this dump of a house. And now NSDH is talking about things we'll be doing here in 2 years time when I have no intention of being here any longer than our fixed term is left - 18 months. Our relationship is at breaking point anyway and part of my reason for not being able to leave is the massive penalty we'd get if we sold our house before the 5 years is up (terms of the mortgage).

Not sure what I'm asking for. Apologies for the essay. Someone please talk to me, and be frank. I feel trapped, and a total bitch for feeling like I'm 'using' his money to get the house done. Do I need a hug, a boot up the arse or something in between?

OP posts:
StillGettingItWrong · 06/07/2012 20:12

Oh my nini, what a mess. Haven't got time for an in depth reply but didn't want to read and run.

Are you planning to leave your H? I couldn't be sure one way or the other from your post. Do NOT feel guilty for "using" his money, that's not how I interpreted it. It seems like he's very selfish (stating the obvious if he's EA) in respect of his contribution to the household. You need to do whatever is necessary to facilitate your exit, be it from just the house or the marriage altogether.

I left my EA H a year ago, so totally empathise with you.

NiniLegsInTheAir · 06/07/2012 20:27

Thanks stillgetting. At this moment in time I don't know if I'm planning on staying or leaving Sad. Things aren't getting better but this fixed rate mortgage is a major factor in my hesitation, I couldn't afford any kind of financial penalty. And neither of us are in a position to buy the other out.

Another example that is relevant - we drive a small 3 door car and really need a bigger one as we have DD. He won't look at buying anything as he says we havn't got enough money (he wants to spend at least £3k) and he won't get one on purchase. So we're stuck.

Not that I'm saying we should live beyond our means, but we could afford repayments.

You're right, t his is a mess.

OP posts:
NiniLegsInTheAir · 06/07/2012 20:27

Sorry it should read 'this' not 't his'.

OP posts:
UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea · 06/07/2012 20:37

Hi Nini,

I remember your last thread.

I'm sorry you're still in this situation.

I really think you would be better off leaving him.

Are you sure that you would be so disadvantaged financially? It sounds like you are in a really bad position as it is Sad

No advice, just sympathy.

mumblechum1 · 06/07/2012 20:39

What do:

NS
EA
PA
Fa

mean please?

StillGettingItWrong · 06/07/2012 20:42

Could either one of you afford the mortgage payments on your own, even if interest only? My H and I still have a joint mortgage as neither could afford to buy the other out (also 5 year fixed). I couldn't stay in my marriage any longer so STBXH lives in the marital home and pays the mortgage alone. As part of the divorce I have offered to sign a clean break consent order waiving all interest in the property. There is no equity in it though so it wasn't a tough decision, but it was part of my "whatever it takes" mission to get out.

StillGettingItWrong · 06/07/2012 20:44

NS - not so
EA - emotionally abusive
PA - physically abusive
FA - financially abusive

Basically a right bastard!

NiniLegsInTheAir · 06/07/2012 20:51

Unexpected (love the name btw!), I could afford to run a house with just me and DD if we were renting, but this financial penalty on the house bothers me greatly. Although I admit another reason why I'm reluctant to leave NSDH is that he would make my life a living hell if I did, even more so than he does now. But that's an aside.

Stillgetting, there's no way he'd take out an interest only mortgage, he'd definitely rather sell up. And tbh, I don't really want to stay here. Even without him, our neighbours are such arses they make my life difficult too.

On the plus side, the house will sell for more than we bought it for (improvements we've done so far and a buoyant market in our town if you can believe it). So there's little risk of us losing money on it.

OP posts:
StillGettingItWrong · 06/07/2012 20:56

It sounds like you need to decide whether you actually want to leave him or not. Maybe you haven't had your final light bulb moment yet. Can you imagine yourself growing old with this man?

NiniLegsInTheAir · 06/07/2012 20:59

Not right now, no Sad. I think I'm still in the 'maybe I can get him to change' phase, which is ridiculous as I also think he probably never will. It's very confusing. Sad

OP posts:
StillGettingItWrong · 06/07/2012 21:07

No, he won't change and I am speaking as someone whose STBXH sought help for his issues. A year on he is still in some sort of anger program. He is more patient with our DC which I am grateful for but he still tries to control me, loses his temper and still struggles with his perception versus the reality of situations. It's very sad. But I have got "me" back since leaving him. It took me 8 years to get to this point though. I do feel do you.

Dahlen · 06/07/2012 21:08

IF he wants to spend a minimum of £3000 on a car, then he can easily do it out of his £40000 savings. If he complains about you not contributing anything, give him the 10% you estimate he paid towards your DD and tell him that'll make you even.

Seriously, he's extremely unlikely to change, but you know that. Have you checked out what the penalty actually is? It might not be as bad as you think. Also, if you left him and sold the house, it would probably take several months for the sale to go through and the mortgage to be redeemed, so could be less again.

People always lose out when they divorce. It's an unavoidable fact of life. But it's often a small price to pay for being free, particularly when one of the people involved is abusive rather than a relationship just breaking down.

Dahlen · 06/07/2012 21:10

Sorry, that should be £4000 savings, not £40000. That really would put a different perspective on things. Grin

StillGettingItWrong · 06/07/2012 21:10

*For you, not do you!

NiniLegsInTheAir · 06/07/2012 21:16

Thanks, stillgetting, you're right. I know he won't change, but like you say maybe I'm still waiting for my lightbulb moment. I'm sure it'll come.

Dahlen Lol, £40k really would be different altogether, I'd be asking where the ruddy hell that kind of money came from. Grin.

A slight confession on the mortgage penalty - I don't actually know how much it would be exactly. He has all the paperwork and I need to go through it with fine toothcomb. Blush. I realise that could mean he is only saying it's massive to make me stay when it's not etc etc.

And he wants to spend at least £3k on a car, but also wants me to pay half. Which won't happen anytime soon with my financial situation. Which he blames me for. I used to believe him, now I see it was caused by him.

OP posts:
StillGettingItWrong · 06/07/2012 21:16

Agree with Dahlen about the penalty. I took half our debt with me when I left which was stupid disproportionate compared to our salaries but I just needed to get out. I see it as a small price to pay for my sanity and freedom and for my girls not to grow up believing their father is a healthy example of how men treat women.

Binfullofsiliconelimbsonthe45 · 06/07/2012 22:29

What an awful position for you.

He isn't going to change.

Is there someone you could stay with if you left him?

Could you rent out the house and split? You only have 18 months to go on tbe penalty am I right?

What would he do if you stopped paying for everything? Would it be dangerous for you?

NiniLegsInTheAir · 06/07/2012 22:53

binful, no i hav no family near here and no friends either willing or able im afraid.

Not sure about renting out the house, could possibly be more hassle than i need. But a possibility.

As for his reaction if i stopped paying, i dont know. There is always a chance it could turn violent.

OP posts:
UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea · 07/07/2012 08:24

Hi Nini, I hope you are ok this morning.

Apart from a possible financial penalty, which is a joint issue, not just yours, what is keeping you there?

You came across as so strong and together in your last thread, I honestly thought you would have kept this man out of your life.

You really do deserve better.

NiniLegsInTheAir · 07/07/2012 09:57

Thanks Unexpected. I guess I'm trying to hold on to things for DD, he is trying to be a better dad and finally starting to take an interest in her. And he is trying with us on little things - he keeps bringing cake home for example (but only the kind he likes Hmm). I know that's not enough. I suppose I'm hoping these little improvements will keep on coming.

I don't know. Sad

OP posts:
Spiritedwolf · 07/07/2012 10:29

Nini, this isn't about the finances really is it? You feel like you can't afford to leave, which is a crumby reason for staying in any relationship, let alone one where your partner is emotionally, financially and physically abusive.

I haven't been in your situation, so I don't know which is the best place to get information from but I am certain that between women's organisations, CAB, your bank and a soliciter you will find the information you need to leave. Hopefully someone will be able to advise you where to start.

How much money would someone need to pay me and my children to stay in a relationship with EA, FA and PA? That's what you've got to ask yourself. £1,000, £2,000, £5,000, £10,000, £20,000...

An agreement would need to be come to via solicitors about how the equity in your home would be split after any selling fees, penalties etc anyway, so the whole of the loss wouldn't be yours. Plus it may take some time to sell, and the penalty for breaking the fixed rate period tends to reduce over time. So if selling up early would result in a £5000 penalty, and the equity is split 50:50 you have only lost £2,500. Is it really worth staying in this relationship for that? Its not like you have access to that money now anyway!

Please don't stay with him for this reason. Get financial and legal advice about what would happen if you divorced him. Keep records of everything you spend on the house and children and a copy of his savings in case this helps you argue for a better settlement.

If you don't intend to leave and you feel safe in discussing the finances with him, I'd start with pointing out why you are contributing to his travel expenses even though he earns more, is managing to save and isn't contributing equally to the house and children.

This is so sad :( You and your children are worth more than whatever that penalty is. Take care of yourself.

Spiritedwolf · 07/07/2012 10:32

By the way, I do realise that £2,500 is a lot of money. I don't have that and we can't afford a home of our own, but in the grand scheme of things... its not worth staying in an abusive relationship for.

Spiritedwolf · 07/07/2012 10:36

He can be a better dad when he isn't given the opportunity to be an abusive husband.

Do you want your daughter to think his EA, FA and PA is normal behaviour in a relationship? If she was grown up and in a relationship like this, wouldn't you want her to leave.

A good dad doesn't abuse the mother of his children. A good dad contributes equally to his children's expenses and the upkeep of their home (either by finances or with time). Him bringing her home cakes and playing with her isn't enough, and he can continue to do those things during his access visits.

NiniLegsInTheAir · 07/07/2012 10:47

I know Spiritedwolf Sad, I agree with everything you've said. Thanks for the advice.

OP posts:
IDontDoIroning · 07/07/2012 10:53

Stop contributing to his travel. He can afford it how else do you think he's managed to save.
You both earn around the same yet he's managed to save money- you haven't.
It's obvious he isn't paying a fair proportion of the bills and other costs. Stop paying for extras.