Is their a correlation between a psycho df's and dc ASD?

[seaofyou]

Just wondering because I have spoken to a lot of mum's on here in my shoe's whose dc are on spectrum and the df is a total psycho/narc/abusive twunt of some sort!

Any research to back it up as becoming more than a coincidence now

I Think there's a lot of children with ASD who are emotionally damaged and traumatised by having an abusive parent, but there are also many that are not, that have 2 loving, nurtturing parents, yet still have ASD.
My child had never seen any form of violence or rough behaviour, but that didn't stop her hitting, biting, hurting us.

Maybe the 'abusive' adult is also ASD or on the spectrum and this is how it manifests itself in adulthood with some people?

My ex has a personality disorder. One of our children behaves very similar to him. He was also abusive.... Or was it his personality disorder? I don't know. He's a better person since diagnosis though.

I believe my ex has adult asd, very high functioning. He is controlling and abusive. I also believe because of his upbringing, which was very authoritarian with a Mum who worshipped him and a Dad who terrorised him that he has traits of NPD. It's a lethal combination.

I have a child with diagnosed ASD who is kind and empathetic and sweet. He has been brought up in a very different way to ex.

Personally yes, I think there can often be a correlation but whether the adult is abusive depends on their own upbringing. IE ASD does not automatically equal abusive but could do if their upbringing is problematic iyswim.

Am VERY interested in this and will be watching this thread.

I am worried what if my ds has got PD instead of (or as well as) ASD? I guess the 'language and social' is biggest sign of difference between PD and ASD? But although ds had only 2 suspervised contact visits (by me) which were fine with df between being born and regressing (MMR).

Df didn't abuse ds until way after he regressed into ASD...so abuse didn't trigger it...just wondering if PD is gentetically linked to ASD more AS types like ds! Ds half sis (from df side) has AS.

What are the differneces in learning emotions/empathy between PD v AS ...what I am getting at is I don't want my ds ending up like his df and as still young (7) what can I do to help ds more not develop any traits the df has! Thankfully no contact since 5yrs old so trying to nurture ds loads..but still a worry at back of my mind there could be a risk!?

I think that with ASD emotions have to be learned because they don't come naturally. My ds didn't used to notice if I was ill or hurt but I tell him and then say how sad it has made me, now he seems to respond appropariately, will cuddle me, will pull a face when I hurt myself as though he is experiencing the pain too iyswim? You know how YOU feel when your child is in pain, well he seems to have learned that too now. I explain lots of emotions to him, like when he shouts at his sister, I tell him that she is my little girl and it makes me sad when he shouts at her just like it would make me sad if someone shouted at him. He gets it, he might not automatically feel it but he gets it because I told him lots of times and he has taken it on board.

Sometimes I wonder if people with PD's just never had sympathetic input and explanations because feelings do not come naturally to them. Not all obviously but maybe a fair few.

Or I could just be talking a load of bollocks .

I don't know, but I have asked myself the same question, as I have seen a lot of people with what appear to be traits of Cluster B personality disorders who have autistic/Asperger's children.

thanks aka yeh that parent combination is also similar in my ds df case! Ds is learning empathy which is good...? maybe because df was never taught this stuff and that is how df turned out...I was told by prof it was far more than AS....pure evil if you ask me but I aint a Dr!

Kath yeh df is undiagnosed but is HFAS...but their is something more..far deep and evil iygwim! Thankfully I only see AS in ds but I have 'what if' going on as still early days!

Thanks Hot I was worried I was being just paranoid about it!

I see it in a RL friend DH too and dc ?AS.

I am by no means saying AS is bad as my ds is lovely!

Just seeing a pattern in 'similar' situations where df has some sort of PD and even if not around to role model etc the dc has ASD!

it is dangerous to confuse abusive behaviour with autism/ASD/aspergers.

lack of empathy or theoy of mind is not the same as deliberately controlling behaviour.

yes there is some genetic link for ASD, often.

some people with ASD also have severe MH issues like psychosis/anxiety isues etc.

but not all.

ASD does not = abuse; no.

My Ex was abusive and controlling. He HAD been dxd with Autism when he was 12yo. However, he grew up in a very dysfunctional, abusive and controlling household.

Our older DS was dxd with Autism when he was 3yo. Our 17mo has been mooted as being on the spectrum already, by the HV, the GP AND the local manager of our homestart. (My family ALSO has a very strong incidence of dxd ASD's)

Our older DS is not in ANY way controlling, manipulative or abusive. He is in his own world too much, though has 'learnt' SYMPATHY. Empathy is still being worked on. It remains to be seen about our younger DS as he is so little. I think the difference is how they have been brought up, but it WOULD be interesting to see studies done on this...

ASD does not = abusive, but maybe ASD + crap upbringing does = abusive??

I am the first person cest if you look back will say ASD does not equal abuse and I have had many arguements with people who do! My ds with AS is like a meek lamb!

What I am asking (myself out loud here and anyone who knows)Is their a genetic link between first line (df) have a PD and the off spring having then ASD?

Does anyone know of any research on it?

It is well documented that the difference between ASPD and ASD is that ASD do not 'act out'...but they both have same part of neurological structure with reading emotions.

I personally want to know for my ds as I fear he will be like df if it is genetic?

I found this

here

but this is only asking if link between AS and ASPD. Which I think it sums up some characteristics overlap but no reason for the actual person themselves!

Anyone else ever found research/study saying PD = ASD dc?

"ASD does not = abusive, but maybe ASD + crap upbringing does = abusive??"

And, if you're putting forward a genetic link, the 'crap upbringing' could indicate undiagnosed & untreated mental health conditions going back much further up the chain.

aka i agree with your post about people with PD never having had sympathetic input or acknowkedgment. I have huge issues due to my emotionally retarded/stunted/damaged parents who were clueless on the emotional front.

ASPD could it result in ASD/AS/SPD dc?

Now I am just messing with the letters lol!

A known fact ASPD can result in ASPD dc! It is genetic. That's my worry! Even taking the AS/ASD/SPD out of the equation!

Any websites for parents who are worried to get more info I wonder?

yes good point sympathy easier to learn than empathy because of the theory of mind problems with empathy!

I see ds he is learning empathy as he goes along through experience/age...that is a good sign! If ds had ASPD maybe he would not learn it?

has his father been diagnosed with Antisocial personality disorder (ASPD) ?
is he a certified "psycho" ?

anyway - while some may be genetic i am sure that nurture to a degree can ehlp mitigate - if you see signs then get the treatment.

who is russell smith in the aricle above? www.braceanalysis.com/links.html not sure how widely recognized / reputed he is....

my DS has ASd but has a chomosome deletion - which is linked with ASd traits. he also ahs severe LDS so not the same as your son perhaps.

his father has various MH issues and was / is abusive. but i dont see any antisocial type behaviours in DS far from it.

i se sometimes emerging signs in dds of anxiety etc -but my plan is to get those addressed.... i do think nurture/treatment ha a role to play in changing the outome.

and you should also be looking for studies on how many have ASD without any kind of twuntish fatherly or motherly background...

so rather than being worried/deciding someone is destined to be like their father - - seek treatment/therapy/education as soon as poss? make nurure impact on the genetic tendencies?

very true cest..I hope the years of behavioural therapy has dampened down any ASPD if their was any? I cant see any but isnt it later on it becomes more apparent?

I know I am going to come accross other mums here in same position...the parrells are as if they all followed similar scripts although different degrees to the violence/control!

Trouble is most people like my ex wont even have insight their is anything wrong with behaviours such as threatening toharm/ murder, child abuse, drug/alcoholism, say it is the mum is mad, into bad things I don't even understand and the usual projection, gas lighting, stone walling etc and how it effects others etc as the df has no empathy at all! but is clever enough to stop with the threat of criminal law over the behaviour.

I know that ASD does not equal abuser.

However I think it would be much easier to become an abuser if you are ASD and have not been helped appropriatly. It takes a lot of work with someone who is ASD to understand how to relate to other people effectively and if that support was never given I think it could be very easy to fall into being abusive without really knowing why. This can also be exacerbated by other mental health problems that can also go with ASD.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the earlier the intervention the better for everyones sakes.

nurturing has a huge impact. See the book by Sue Gerhardt Why Love Matters How Affection Shapes A Baby's Brain.

I was not loved or nurtured as a child. I was abused and neglected. I have so many personality and mental health and physical health issues i wouldnt know where to start telling you about them. Theres plenty of research that shows the link between the type of childhood experienced and mental and emotional problems in adulthood.

Although my parents think my problems are down to what I eat......

oh dear they don't...they have no insight! But tulip (((hugs))) you have amazing insight!....my ds brain developed now as not a baby anymore. Hope book can help someone else! I probably hugged ds to much in first 12 months...then when ds had MMR would not be held at all or look at me or anyone else.
Therapy made ds look/engage again 18 months later. Fingers crossed!

DS is AS, he is not violent in any way, he fights with his sister, gets frustrated, but like any 'normal' 5yr old. He is just different in other ways.

I left his Dad when he was 10mths old due to domestic violence, I didn't want the kids growing up seeing that thinking it was right.