DS being taken to therapy for imaginary anxieties. Have other MNers had to deal with this?

[bouncyagain]

Briefly: ExDP and I split a year ago. Her decision, but the relationship was in a bad way for a while. There is one DS. He is now 4. He is at nursery.

I met a new DP very soon (I did not meet her until after the relationship ended). She has her own DCs. DS sees new DP once or twice a month. DS really likes new DP (we have not pushed this at all). He is a happy boy. He is pleased we split as (his words) it means you and mummy are not shouting any more. (Not true, but he doesn't see it.) He loves being at my place.

ExDP is anxious, and has been depressed.

She is finding his tantrums difficult. He is very well behaved and he only has tantrums with her. He only has tantrums with me when he does not want to go back to her, as he wants to spend more time with me.

ExDP has now started taking him to see a child psychologist. I have said I do not agree as he doesn't need therapy. She has ignored that. I am beside myself with worry - what will she do if he is ever bullied? Straight into a psych ward?

I am thinking seriously about getting a court order saying no therapy without consent of both parents.

Am I over-reacting? Have any MNers had to deal with this sort of issue?

Thanks for reading.

OP: I'm araid that I disagree with you. I think that your ex is trying to do the right thing by your DS in finding a way for him to let out his upset and anxiety in a controlled environment. Do not kid yourself about how little kids take in. Kids take in much more than you think. If your DS is living with his mum, then why shouldn't she make her own decision to take him to therapy to help him? She's the one who's living with it from day to day.

Who pays for your sons therapy?

Mooncups idea is good. Now the therapy is set up don't bother fighting it. Go with it, it can't hurt.

I agree that DS is playing you. You need to present a united front. How did you react when he commented on cbeebies? Raised eyes with new DP? Don't think he didn't notice. Stating that you'll speak with his Mum about cbeebies and whether you are letting him watch too much would show that you respect his Mum's opinions - even if you don't (why not?)

I have childminded and I have seen at home time children playing up. These children aren't damaged or unnusual, they just want to punish their parents for leaving them/they're tired at that time of day. They might hide under tables, have to get carried away kicking and screaming, but it doesn't mean they prefer me to their parents - far from it!!

It might be helpful if you and ex DP had some counselling or a really good chat on how to co parent your son effectively as it sounds as if you are at odds and think you are right and she is wrong. She might feel the same. This is unhelpful to DS. You are probably both right and wrong in equal measures, it isn't important, what is important is presenting a united front and being able to discuss the way your son is brought up. Your couple relationship is over, but your relationship as parents will continue forever so you need to work on it.

Harecare

Re CBeebies, I said that different people do different things in different homes.

She won't speak to me, so I cannot have the chat you suggest and which I would like to have. But there would not be much point as she is not interested in my views.

Yes you are BOTH over reacting.

My guess is, that as his primary carer your ex has his very "worst" behaviour, because of the familiarity and having to be the disciplinarian. She has to cope with looking after them both and does not give him the level of attention that you are able to give him when you see him.
I'm guessing when he sees you that you do "fun" things together, and it is probably very boring at home with Mum!

She is trying her best with a stroppy 4 year old, why don't you discuss this sensibley and find some common ground as regards to discipline and what is and what is not acceptable behaviour

oldwoman

Yes, that's it in a nutshell.

She won't discuss it - immediately into therapy is her answer. That's the problem.

I'm very sorry your son is very unsettled and I'm sorry that you are so concerned.

I find your OP worrying though. You seem to see things how you want to see them.

You want to be totally without blame and your son to be totally happy and unscathed.

Your son says he's glad you are apart because of all the shouting that went on - but you deny that there was any shouting.

You state any anxieties he has are 'imaginary'.

You say your son is fine and settled with you and not with your wife. I think he is actually more likely to 'act out' with the parent he feels most safe and comfortable with.

You state he is 'happy' yet he has been through some traumatic events and changes and some behaviours suggest otherwise. Kids can be unhappy when parents split, you need to try and accept that. It doesn't mean permanent unhappiness and doesn't mean you (or ex) have failed him.

I think you need to be more open minded and less quick to blame others (ie your ex). There is nothing wrong with admitting that you are not perfect and that your son might be hurting or upset because of what he's been through.

Try to calm down and think rationally about this - and to put your son first, not your feelings about what counselling may or may not lead to or represent.

My take is that if she's struggling then a therapist might help your son deal with her. My DHs mum had a really tough time after she threw his dad out and didn't handle DH very well. MIL saw problems in her child (though the problem was her) but therapy would still have benefited him.

You've every right to hear about the sessions so build a relationship with the therapist. Oh and realise it's not a competition!

I am a psychologist (in training) so unsurprisingly my view is you have nothing to fear from therapy for your son. As others have suggested, educate yourself about what is involved, and I expect it won't seem so bad.

Why are the anxieties imaginary? It sounds like they are very real for your son and your ex. There seems to be so much animosity between you and your ex and my guess is, this is at the root of your sons behavioural problems. As you say, it's going to be difficult to sort this one out if your ex refuses to speak to you. Is there any other way you can change the dynamics?

I'd like to hear your exPs side of things TBH. 'Why will mummy not let me watch cBeebies' comment suggests he likes being with you because you spoil him more than your exP.

Sorry - bit of a x-post with Harecare. I don't know what to suggest; perhaps is there a mutual friend who can mediate and put your side of things across if she is unwilling to discuss? Or could you and she go to a relationship counsellor to resolve this? You will have to work together to work out what to do regards your DS and address everything all the other posters have mentioned; united front, primarily (druggery) vs secondary (excitement) carer imbalance.

I think therapy might help him if you have had a messy split TBH. He sounds stuck in the middle and, as Harecare also said, trying to manipulate you to his own ends.

It's only a year, give it time. I think this post is not really about your child to be honest

Your real problem is the communication between you two

Do you try to be nice to your ex at handover ?

If she initiated the split why is she not speaking to you ?

In addition to what others said, surely you don't expect her to do exactly what you do.
That's the good points of having two parents. Doing different things.

At the moment you are his "pal" and the fun parent. She is probably the rule enforcing parent.

As far as I can tell, she may need to work on her disciplining, but your DS seems to be playing you two against each other and you are joining the game. Particularly if one of your complaints is that she doesn't let him watch CBeebies in the morning and you do.

By the way as the primary carer she has every right to put her son into therapy and don't threaten to waste court time to try an prevent her !

what is imaginery is that he is upset by the situation.

Don't fool yourself. Even if he said that it's better that you are separated.

Bouncy, I had a similar situation in our family with my stepson. I'll share my story and hope it reassures you. DSS is very clever and dominant in his personality and his Mum (especially given her profession) was at her wits end with his rudeness and moods so she started taking him to a child psychologist without telling my DH (because they, at the time, were too arsey to speak to each other). This was when DSS was about 8. DH went mad when he found out. In the end nothing really happened - DSS was declared 'normal', not medicated or anything and grew out of being horrid in his own time. My DH was really quite silly about it and I believe it was more about the control issue than anything else. Talk to the pyschologist and spend your money on mediation not court!

It is very common for children to be exceptionally well-behaved at school or in front of relatives they don't see that much (i.e. when on public display, by which I mean not in their usual home environment) and then raise merry hell in their own homes. Mine are the same: my house is where they can cry, be a bit cheeky, say nasty things, talk through problems, and if there's ever a tantrum, it's alway here at home, usually directed at me, their mother. This is not because I'm a bad mum, quite the opposite, I'm very firm and have good boundaries, and I'm a safe space from which to kick off and explore the world, including the dark side.

I'm not saying your child is the same, who knows? But clearly there's still massive tension between you and your wife, and it's no co-incidence that your child kicked off at handover time, i.e. the time you two were meeting and the vibes were at their worst, and it's quite immaterial he wanted to stay with you (in a few years, he may refuse to come to you and want to stay with mum, children can often be like this). He is clearly desperately torn and still very upset, and the fact he's 'good' with you doesn't paper over this and I wonder why you can't see that all can't be great in his world right now.

I can't believe you think baking with your new partner is good evidence he's fine with it all, I'm actually speechless. After years of shouting between his natural parents, and them splitting up? I'm sure he's not fine at all and is quite confused, but with good boundaries and lots of tolerance and calmness all round (not running to court), he'll be fine.

I wouldn't be looking for a therapist in this situation, but your wife is so you have to suck it up. You sound like a lovely dad, I would focus on continuing to provide a stable and reassuring environment and calm down any contact between you and your former wife. Even if she is anxious, so what? She's his mother and your question should be: how can I help my son to cope with the life he has including his mother? Not apportioning her as the 'bad' one who 'makes' him have tantrums.

Actually, seeing a child psychologist sounds like an excellent idea for a little boy who has sat there crying while he watched his parents fight.

If the psychologist is good, he or she can be of great help. Just listen to your son and see how it goes before overreacting. If your son is unhappy about seeing the psychologist, then talk to your ex, by all means.

bouncy - don't let it slip - get some advice and get a Prohibited Steps / Specific issues order ASAP so such referrals can only be made either with agreement of both parents or on the GP's clear advice.

Your not the first person (of either sex) to have their ex go down this road. IMHO they are usually projecting their own anxieties and issues on the child.

You have PR (I assum) so you have every right to a significant say on this matter and you have every right to be heard.

By challenging this unilateral unconsulted course of action you are not preventing your child from getting help (a charge that will no doubt be levelled at you at some stage) - you are trying to ensurethat appropriate action is taken - basically being a great parent.

If DS was a teenager it might seem quite reasonable that he was kicking off and seethingly angry that the two people who should have his well-being foremost in their minds decided to split with bad feeling and totally f* up his life.

So possibly 4 year olds can be allowed to kick off too.

I think DCs pick up intonations (if that is the right word) in comments and certainly facial expressions which show disapproval or annoyance. So I hope that you can put on an agreeable and supportive front when discussing things concerning your ex. He might get alot from the psychologists meetings (someone to speak honestly to?) so you could encourage him and tell him to talk about anything he wants with him/her.

Surely no anxiety can be 'imaginary'. Anxieties are a personal thing. No matter how irrational a worry may seem to others, if it's something you are worried about then it is an anxiety.

Wow projecting much yourself there mykidsrock?

If by challenging the exp's decision to send their child for therapy you think OP is trying to ensure that "appropriate action" is taken ("basically being a great parent") then what is the appropriate action the OP should be looking for?

What alternative appropriate action for a child upset by witnessing the breakdown of their parents' relationship would be more appropriate than therapy?

What Weezo said. It's just about control and winning, very sad. Makes me want to do some slapping (of adults) when I see my DSCs all strung out at handover. And the older they get, the more aware of it they become.

Aren't all anxieties 'imaginary'? I think you need to support your ex's decision here. She is obviously worried about your DS and I can understand why. If he witnessed a lot of shouting and arguing he will be upset and damaged by this. The fact that he prefers you apart is very sad, and says a lot about what he has experienced.

The fact that he kicks off for your ex is almost certainly because he feels safer with her, she's his mum! It doesn't mean she's doing anything wrong, on the contrary she is trying to find a positive solution and to help him.

I can understand that you feel powerless, but you've got to suck it up and do what you can to help your son. The absolute best thing you can do is make sure that you are positive and friendly at handovers. If there is tension, your son will pick up on it and it will make him anxious, without knowing why.

You need to be the bigger person and put your own feelings to one side for your son's sake.

So your very young son witnessed horrible arguments between the two of you and even says he is glad you live apart but you think his anxieties are imaginary, etc.? Are you working under the illusion that now he is out of the situation, he is all over it? The way you talk about your ex shows that you're clearly not over it, yet you expect him to be? Just because he is a child doesn't mean his emotions don't work as deeply as an adult; indeed, precisely because his feelings are so young and tender, they are actually much more deeply-felt than an adults'. Do you think he's forgotten all the nastiness and is over it? My son had a balloon that burst at the weekend and he keeps going over to the place where it burst and wailing 'ba-oo!' - if a toddler is still upset over the memory of something so small, then how on earth do you think a 4 year old is so quickly recovered from what to him will have been massive trauma and upheaval. Why do so many people think/expect that children can get over things quickly and easily when adults don't and can't?!

I actually think your ex is behaving very well and totally in your son's interests. If only MORE children received therapy after their parents split up! It is a fact, as other mention, that children act out most with the parent they feel most secure about and such tantrums are clearly a manifestation of the upset and pain he has longering within him that he just doesn't know how to process. Love and kids tv are not enough. Bravo to your exdp for wanting to help him through this. I know people in their 40s who are still scarred from their parents splitting up in the 1970s!

It really does come across that you are very bitter and angry towards your ex and seems to me like you are using this issue of therapy as a focus for all that. If you really love your son, you would be pleased that he is getting help to sort his hurt feelings out. Unless you've got some daft idea in your head that males shouldn't do therapy or something.

This is not about her not listening to your wishes (something you clearly haven't got over yet, even whilst you can't see that you son might not have got over things), this is about helping your son. Therapy could really help heal him and transform his self and life and at worst, it'll just be a waste of time and money, no harm done to your son. The fact is, he IS getting this counselling, so you need to get on board. If you tell him you don't hold with it, or he picks up on that, it's sabotaging his chance at healing. Think of his needs. If you do decide to try to ban it through the courts, think on: how good a parent are you going to look, wanting to halt a process that is helping your child?!