To ask if resentment over washing/cooking etc leads to divorce?

[Melanthe]

Had a discussion with four young, educated women last week and was shocked to discover they do the majority of the cleaning, washing and cooking. While they said their OHs 'contributed', they also said things fall apart if they had to work long hours for an extended period.

They all justified this by saying their partners didn't see the mess or do it to their standards. I argued that surely in 10 or 20 years they are likely to feel resentment over this arrangement and it will likely result in divorce/break up (also said if their partners respected them, they would pitch in more .) They doubted this, although said it might compound other problems.

So I've been wondering about this in the context of people's experiences - what do you think?

I think it's likely that at least some of them will feel resentment. I know I would/do.

Some people seem happy to take charge of the house work regardless of gender and like to own the responsibility so it isn't inevitable. For my part, I'd rather have it done and not meet my exacting standards than do it all myself and infantilize my husband.

My MIL does everything in the house but seem to see it as her role in life and if she is resentful she hides it very well.

I would say that, if these women have rationalised the situation and actively chosen to assume all the responsibility for the house because they have 'higher standards', it won't necessarily lead to resentment. It's when that kind of arrangement is imposed or exploited that friction happens. Ingratitude is the killer, not the tasks themselves.

Not necessarily - it depends on the overall division of effort between the couple. I don't think how one task (or even a few tasks) are organised should lead to resentment, it's the organisation of all tasks, and who gets to decide that organisation, that will determine how they feel about it.

So if a couple decide between them that he will cut the grass and sort out the car, while she deals with the cooking and cleaning, and they both end up with similar amount of leisure time, then they'll probably be fine about it.

But if she hates cooking and he'd choose to spend every spare minute in the garden or under the car, and she's had her "share" of the chores dumped on her because he won't get off his arse to do something he dislikes, then yes she'll grown to resent it.

So it's about much more than who does what!

Personally I do virtually all the cooking and all the cleaning. But DH does tons of other work to keep the household going, much of it stuff that I would dislike having to do. We each work to our strengths, and I'd say we do similar amounts of things we consider to be chores, and have similar amount of time at the end of the day or at the weekend to do things we enjoy. So neither of us resents the other.

Reverse situation for me, my STBXH did a lot of the housework while I was trying to build up my own business. He started to resent that I didn't do enough and felt taken for granted even though I was always very grateful to him and tried to do as much as I could. He never told me how he felt just used it as one of many excuses to walk out.

Now I do everything and manage well as I have no choice!

As a divorce lawyer I see this reason cropping up fairly frequently.

DH and I have worked out a system which works which is that he's always worked FT, often v long hours, I've only worked PT for donkey's years so I do all the domestic stuff, cooking, shopping, cleaning, organising holidays etc.

It works for us but of course if both are working FT then either you share the domestic stuff equally or you pay someone to do most of it for you.

"Ingratitude is the killer, not the tasks themselves."
One of them said pretty much that, that if the OH comes home and says 'thanks for cooking the dinner' then its showing gratitude and its all ok. My response was actions speak louder then words and it have been better if he did the dishes

I still don't really understand it - although I get the appeal of having my meals cooked and washing done. Perhaps I need a girlfriend.

It was one of the deal breakers in my marriage. He was willing to live in a pig sty and I wasn't. I was fed up staying up to the small hours tidying up, washing up, cleaning, organising with absolutely no help whatsoever. My children were young and had special needs (they still do), my son was poo smearing at the time, that I almost had a nervous breakdown. We divorced and I am so much happier doing my own chores and have more leisure time as a lone parent than when I did when I was married. It can lead to resentment where the man just pretends he can't see dirt and obviously has more leisure time.

Resentment usually creeps in when children come along IMO. Keeping on top of housework seems easy when it's just two adults but when there's a tiny baby involved and the skivvy wife is usually taken up for most of the day with childcare then it starts to become obvious how little the man does. Add tiredness and stress to the mix and it can completely explode.

Some women do genuinely enjoy taking over the housework, and if both partners are genuinely happy with the situation then it can work well. But I think even a lot of women who appear to be ok with doing everything are actually not and have just accepted the situation with the endless stupid excuses of "he doesn't know to do it," "he doesn't see mess" etc. The marriage doesn't end because of the lack of contribution from the man per se it ends because the power dynamic ends up skewed where the woman feels more like a mother to her partner than a lover and affection dies. Again I think that becomes more true when you have children and you realise that while you are moaning about your messy children you could also moan in the same way about your husband. Your husband should be a true partner, someone who makes your life easier rather than harder. If you suddenly realise you would be happier on your own, why stay?

Great post Cailin. I was going to say much the same - that it sounds like they don't currently have children, and that is when the big changes would come and many women would finally have "had enough"! But you've said it much better than I would have.

I like your explanation as well Cailin.

They don't have children, bar one who has a nanny which takes on a fair bit of the work.

I think a big part of it is what your expectations are when you first get into a relationship/move in/get married. So many people don't seem to communicate at the early stages and that is one way resentment can build up.

There's also the issue of how a 'task' is measured, be it in how long it will take to do, how often it needs to be done or how hard the task is to do. So is hoovering daily equal to mowing the lawn once a week, or cooking the evening meal every night equal to repainting the living room every year?
I think perhaps women do more day to day tasks which can grind you down, where men maybe do one off big jobs, that can easily be forgotten about.

I'm glad to have stumbled upon this thread, dp and myself have been having serious TALKS about exactly this-

I spend my days off doing all the house work and all he does is takes out the bins and occasionally mows the lawns.

After nearly a year of living here and realising that he hasn't hoovered once, I broke down in tears, hot angry tears- he is 47 and I am 30, both without dc's and I can't live like this any more.

I think it could end our relationship if it keeps going like this, he has asked that today be a clean sheet (no pun intended) and I have agreed in a kind of disillusioned/ I'll beleive it when I see it kind of way.

Really quite excited at the prospect of maybe splitting up- I know that sounds weird but the resentment has turned to poison in my mind and I think i will be happier without him now.

He is getting a chance to prove that he is not a boy but Im sceptical.

SO yes I think the resentment is very likely to cause divorce.

That's sad snap :( Is there more going on besides the cleaning issues? I'm just wondering, if he does shape up on that front, do you think you'll still not really want to be with him?

:( Snap. That's what I'm worried about for my friends. It doesn't sound like a pleasant way to live.

That sounds rubbish Snap. Is it only the division of housework that's bothering you? It does sound as if there might be more behind your anger. If you don't want to be with him now, you don''t have to wait around for him to fuck up again, you can leave the relationship whenever you want to.

snap I totally get where you're coming from. The tasks in our house are split in a very similar way and it really gets to me.
I might be able to accept it if DH brought a lot of other positives to the relationship e.g. affection, support etc. But as he doesn't I'm really questioning what future there is for us.

This is one of the straws that broke the camels back in my relationship and yes justtryingtodomybest, he also didn't bring much to the table except himself so to speak. I think he's what's referred to as a "Mans Man". I ended up saying bollock to that (doesn't know how to show support or affection).

We now live apart but after an already booked holiday at the end of the month with our kids (from previous relationships) I'm probably going to wave byebye.

I guess resentment over housework ultimately is a symptom of a larger problem - one of lack of respect/support :(

Personally I think I owe it to my children that they grow up seeing both parents mutually support each other, even in housework.

I dunno, I'm not sure it is always just that, Melanthe.

Trying to find the right words to explain what I mean though...

I think what I mean is that some men would think that respect and support meant giving the "little woman" a new vacuum cleaner for Christmas (well, it helps her do her cleaning, right?), or making patronising comments about how tasty the potatoes were occasionally, while it would never occur to them that the hoovering/cooking/whatever doesn't actually have to be the wife's job and they could (shock) do some themselves!

I think it's important to be partners, and to see each other as equal partners, rather than one automatically defaulting to the "status" jobs (paid work, occasional big tasks, rewarded with free time) and one getting all the drudgery and no breaks.

I also think a lot of it is about unspoken assumptions - does the man (or the woman) assume the man is more important? Is there an assumption that the working or full-time partner (or the man) has a right to more free time? Does he assume the floor will "get cleaned" by someone else, if he just ignores it? Does she assume he is expecting her to? Do other people (such as parents) assume it is her job and look down on her (but not him) if the house is dirty? Does he assume it's OK to go out to play football all Saturday without checking first, even if this will leave her with the dirty house and children to look after? In some cases, where there are strong assumptions maybe going back to people's own childhoods, I do think it honestly has never occurred to some people to question these things. In other cases, for sure, it just suits one partner very well not to think about them!

I thought the link between division of domestic labour and happiness was fairly well established now. Men who do their fair share have more sex and are less likely to get divorced. People (of both sexes) like to feel valued and respected. Who feels respected by cleaning the toothpaste spatters off the mirror? Who is overcome by lust for someone who consistently leaves smelly socks on the floor? Who feels greater love for a partner who can't use the washing machine?

Being in a relationship should reduce the housework burden for both parties. 'Helping' isn't enough. Doing 20% of the housework might mean 20% less for the other person, but if you are generating another 50% by your mere presence, then you are actually creating 30% extra work for your partner.

Some men expect endless praise for doing the dishes while failing to take into account the fact that their clothes magically appear fresh and laundered in the wardrobe and the shopping fairy knows exactly what to deliver every thursday. Do they extend the same thanks to their wives/gfs for this I wonder?

I think some people feel that fulfilling the domestic role is a sort of demonstration of love, but it doesn't create love on its own. Many a hardworking domestic goddess has been dumped for a less domestically capable but more desired partner.

he's always worked FT, often v long hours, I've only worked PT for donkey's years so I do all the domestic stuff, cooking, shopping, cleaning, organising holidays etc.

The problems arise I would think when one half of the couple doesn't go out to work and the other does, but the former still expects the latter to do 50% of the housework.

Ingratitude and futher critique of my cooking when abusive H did fuck all himself created huge resentment from me. He did wash up but cursed me whilst doing so just loud enough that I could hear it and also pulled me up constatly on the way I stacked the dishes in the sink ( one fine day I threw the lot onto the patio and said 'there, we don't have to worry about the way the plates are stacked now do we' ) - he then said I was a crazy bitch, NO, actually mate you drive me to it.

I do most of the cooking now for lovely DP, washing up is shared in the household. No one complains and he comments on it, eg that was lovely thanks. Funny how I enjoy the cooking for DP.

whilst married I was constantly pissed off over housework
living on my own I am frequently delighted by just how little effort it takes to keep the place spick and span, keep up with the washing etc.

So yes, he may have helped but that amounted to less than the extra work that he generated.
I might add that for most of our relationship I earned considerably more than he did.

And there was always the 'shall I wash up for you'
'I've done the hoovering for you'

when I complained about his phrasing he modified it to 'shall I wash up for us'

Forgot to add, DP is very pleasant, affectionate and caring so I'm happy to do things for him as he does things for me.

Inigo has got it spot on with "I also think a lot of it is about unspoken assumptions Is there an assumption that the man has a right to more free time? Does he assume the floor will "get cleaned" by someone else, if he just ignores it? Do other people (such as parents) assume it is her job and look down on her (but not him) if the house is dirty?"

Our flash point came when we had another baby 15 years after the youngest of 4. We'd got into the habit of both doing our own thing and suddenly one of us (ie me) was tied. Things have got steadily worse from then.

The fairies replace the toilet roll, wash the clothes, replace the food in the freezer and look after DD. I work 5 days a week. I take DD to school and pick her up, and I look after her all day every Saturday and Sunday. DH works odd hours and virtually every weekend. He spends his days off from work on his own watching the TV. I spend my days off from work grocery shopping, cleaning, doing laundry, and watching DD. I never get any free time, while he has it in bucketloads. I am seriously looking at walking out. I lived on my own with DD for 3 months and really enjoyed it. Nobody else making a mess.