To not want to leave newborn DD with my ex?

[snowdropsinmay]

This could be long, sorry.

I am 33 weeks pregnant with DD, first baby. DH and I split up 2 weeks ago now, I don't really want to go into it but it wasn't a nice situation, and I know it's early days but I have no plans to go back.

SO DH is now obviously worried about how custody arrangements are going to work, his suggestion is that while I am on maternity leave ( one year) I have DD in the week during the day, and he has her overnight Friday and through to Sunday evening. He wants to start this arrangement as soon as shee's born from the word go. I haven't agreed to anything yet, but I have told him I don't feel comfortable being seperated from her so quickly for so long. His response is that he's her dad and he deserves an equal amount of time with her.

For other reasons I'm not sure I'm comfortable leaving DD alone with DH as it is, and for such long periods of time so soon seems just horrific to me. Or am I being completely selfish not letting him 'share' DD? I don't know anymore.

Thank you

No it would be far too soon. The first priority after birth is that you get peaceful, uninterrupted time to bond and get to know your baby. If you bf (and you could argue it would be best for DD) then she will need to be with you for first 6 months - she could go for may be an hour between feeds. Overnights are not practical with such a small baby unless you ff. I'd say about 18mths age for overnight would be realistic as long as she knows him really well by then.

Why are you not comfortable leaving DD alone with her dad in any case?

Is he off his trolley or, far more likely, is he a controlling git who's trying his damndest to get at you?

Presumably you intend to breast feed your pfb and you will need a considerable period of time to establish a routine so that she can be left with other relatives/trusted individuals for an hour or 2 while you catch up on sleep/chores.

If you've told him to take a hike, tell him to turn it into a walk around the globe by which time your pfb may be weaned and be able to spend longer period of time away from your boobs.

If he threatens to go to Court over contact, encourage him to show others what an unreasonable twat he is.

Jeez, some men take the and you've got one on your hands, honey. What happens if she's born on a Friday? Does he waltz off with her for the weekend? What an arse!

Stand firm. Maybe I'm reading between the lines but it would seem appropriate to me, for the first few months at least, that he gets to see pfb when it suits you and in your presence in a place of your choosing such as the park/cafe or a contact centre - and very definitely not in your new home.

Whether you are planning to breastfeed or not it is still very important that your baby be given the time to bond with you, the main caregiver. Whole weekends from the get go are not appropriate. There's stacks of literature you could google about early bonding and so on to back that up. Of course if you are planning to breastfeed it makes it all a moot point anyway what is he expecting you to do pack your breasts in with the change bag for the weekend?

Is there anything to what izzyizin has wondered about him trying to control you?

There's something worrying about your post. You do know that, father or not, you're not obliged to have him present at the birth or to have him visit you/pfb until such time as you feel able to see him?

Sorry can I just add, I am not trying to minimise the importance of his bonding with his daughter for both of them, but from all I've read little and often is better if you are not the primary caregiver in this sort of situation and it can be built up to full weekends when the baby is older.

In fact, if you do not put his name on the birth certificate then he has no parental rights.

He would have to apply to the court to get parental rights - at which time you could get a proper contact agreement stipulated. All of that would take time.

And it may well be that your X would decide not to bother.

Perhaps he is worried you are going to marginalise him? be thankful he wants to be involved, you just need to find common ground. He's trying to do all the right things, but lets face it, he's a bloke and doesn't know what giving birth, first few months entails.

My concern would be the possessive attitude he is taking. Your DD will be far too young to be separated from you. Wy does he need her on her own? Why cant he visit during the day and share parenting? That is what he would do if you were together. The tone of the OP sounds worry.

And as for the diminishment by saying he's a man he doesnt get it blah blah and you should be grateful for his interest - no, just no

Worried or not he has got to be insane to think that a newborn can go without its mother for overnight visits. Is he usually a total moron or it is just on this issue? Of course the baby cannot stay with him for weekends. Tell him he is a complete cretin.

Its totallyunrealistic for him to think that this would be OK.
The time that he thins he 'deserves' with her isnt really relevant,it is about what your DD deserves, and while that is a relationship with both her parents as long as that is safe, a newborn doesnt need an arrangement of half a week with one parent and half with another,

How are you planning on feeding your DD? It probably shouldnt be relevant, but if you BF that will limit the options a bit for her to be away from you.

Just as an aside: MN boards abound with stories of MILs who 'insist' on having their DGC for overnight visits as soon as possible post-birth. It's not just men who sometimes have an unrealistic idea (or indeed memory) of what it's like post-partum.

Plus the XP may think that he can bully the op into formula feeding even if she'd prefer to BF, so in his eyes that may not be a problem :(

Perosnally I would not want an unpleasant XP to have my PFB for such a long time immediately post-partum, op. I don't think he actually has any 'right' to demand it in fact - you are the main caregiver and on paper he has no rights at all as yet (he won't at all unless you choose to involve him, I believe).

Good luck - it sounds like a hard situation.....

Pickgo unless the full legal divorce proceedings are complete before the birth is registered I am not sure that is true. I believe that if they are actually married (OP refers to H not P) then the law assumes him to be the father automatically.

OP of course YANBU - he is being very U, and if he uses the word "deserve" again tell him that such a selfish attitude is completely inapropriate for any parent. If he can't put his daughter's needs ahead of his own, he is demonstrating that he is unfit to take responsibility for her. She does need a positive relationship with her dad, but she won't be capable of developing that for months - at first she just needs stability, familiarity, milk and sleep - and having her shuttling between two different homes and carers will be detrimental to this.

However, do keep the lines of communication open on this. The sleep deprivation of being with a newborn can be horrendous, and whilst it would be far too early for her dad to take her when she's only a week or two old, you might find it a blessing for him to have her for an overnight (just one, not the whole weekend at first) sooner than you think.

This can only be once you've got BF well established enough to be able to express the additional milk for him to give her (it took ages before I could express more than an ounce!) and also she needs to be capable of taking the milk from a teat (which can take some babies a long time to learn). You'd also need to ensure that he can provide a sleeping environment and routine where he is living that is as close as possible to what you can provide at your home.

However, do NOT let him into your home to care for her there - you have the right for your personal space to be yours, not invaded by him.

Pickgo - I don't think that was particularly useful. They are married anyway, so is more or less irrelevant. Plus, the hold has a right to have a relationship with her father and OP isn't suggesting no contact due to x, y or z.

OP it would be a 'no' from me too. Is he out of his mind?!

For me, I would offer daily contact for an hour or so... Perhaps he could take her out for a walk or something, not too far from home. Little and often contact would be far more beneficial for his bond with his daughter anyway.

Overnights would be an absolute no no until I felt comfortable about leaving her (I left my DC's overnight with grandparents when they were about 7 months).

*daughter not hold, stupid phone

Ah sorry, I missed the 'H' bit!

I agree that overnight visits so soon are definitely not the way to go but i don't think theres enough info on the exp to suggest he is bullying anyone into anything. I think you need to sit down and discuss access. Also all the talk of not putting him on the birth cirtificate is quite shocking seeing as the op was with the guy for however long and decided to have a baby with him.

However i completely agree that him having the baby overnight from week 1 is a crazy thing for him to suggest and the fact that the op already can't bear the thought of being away from her unborn baby just proves how strong the bond between mother and child is.

Obviously the reasons for your split haven't been mentioned but providing you are on good terms perhaps he can come round after work a few days a week and spend some time with you and baby at the weekend as he obviously wants to be involved and form his own bond with the baby, which he has every right to do.

your "other reasons" are imporant here eg are you comfortable having ex in you hosue at all?
if not then he can see her in park or conact centre for short times. for first six weeks or more you not going to want to have he leave your side for too long anyway. tho another person taking her out in buggy for half hour is not unreasonable.

o couse is insane to suggest taking her for weekends from day she born. clealry hehasnt met many newborns but then no many of us ahve til we ahve our own...

is there any member s of his family you trust?

I agree with HeadsShoulders: it is about your babies needs not what either parent deserves and what she will need is to spend most of her time with you (her primary caregiver) for the first few weeks and months. Her needs will change over time and developmentally when establishing strong, secure bonds with others can come to the fore.

I would also suggest that you think now about what contact arrangements you think would work best in the future once you have finished ML and returned to work. I would be very hesitant of setting a prescidence (sorry can't spell) where you have Monday to Friday (the stressful running to childcare, to work, back from work, tea, bath, bed, and collapse in a heap time) and your XH has every Friday to Sunday to have relaxed fun with the baby. If you do this type of contact during ML, then your XH could argue in court that this routine has already been established and you may find you do not get weekends with your daughter (jsut a thought).

(Posts copied from previous thread in AIBU)

OP please see this:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/legal_matters/1504011-Free-online-advice-session-to-help-with-your-separation-and-divorce-questions

His response is that he's her dad and he deserves an equal amount of time with her.

I think you should refuse to discuss residence and contact (it's no longer called custody/access) until you have recovered from the birth. He cannot force you into any contact arrangements - only a court can do that. If he is stupid enough to go to court with his completely mad proposal it will take months anyway.

Another poster suggested you contact your GP surgery and speak to a pro-breastfeeding health visitor to give you an idea of what you can expect in the first few months. That is a very good idea, and it may be that your ex will benefit from a meeting too.

However, in the next few weeks you need to concentrate on the fact that you will soon be a mother. Get the practicalities sorted out about where you will live, your finance etc. See a solicitor.

Tell your DH you will be happy to attend mediation when you feel ready to after the birth.

If the situation is causing you stress you are not required to see your ex or discuss matters with him.

I am reproducing below some information I put together for another thread in relationships:

Relationship Breakdown and Divorce ? Advice and Links

General

Read everything you can get your hands on. Get familiar with the language of family law and procedure and try to get an understanding of your rights BEFORE you see a solicitor.

Get word of mouth recommendations for family lawyers in your area if possible. If you have children at school, ask mums you are friendly with if they know of anyone who can make a recommendation in your area. These days there are few people who don?t know of anyone who has been through a divorce or separation ? there?s a lot of knowledge and support out there!

If there are children involved, their interests will always come first. It is the children?s right to maintain a meaningful relationship with the non-resident parent (NRP) ? not the other way around. Children are not possessions to be ?fairly? divided between separating parents. Parents have no rights, only responsibilities.

A divorce will not be granted where children are involved unless there are agreed arrangements for finance, and care of the children (?Statement of Arrangements for Children?). It is obviously quicker and cheaper if this can be agreed but if there is no agreement, the Court will make an Order (?Residence and Contact? regarding children, ?Financial Order? or ?Ancillary Relief? in the case of Finance)

Many family lawyers will offer the first half hour consultation free. Make use of this. Don?t just stick with the first lawyer you find ? shop around and find someone you feel comfortable with. You may be in for a long haul, so it helps if you can find a solicitor you?re happy with.

If you can?t find any local recommendations, always see a solicitor who specialises in Family Law. You can search by area here:
www.resolution.org.uk/

Some family law solicitors publish online feedback from clients ? Google solicitors to see if any recommendations or feedback exists.

Mediation

You will be encouraged to attend mediation. If there has been violence or emotional abuse, discuss this with your solicitor first. Always get legal advice, or at the very least make sure you are aware of your legal rights, before you begin mediation.

Married or Living Together?

This is a key question. If you are married, generally speaking you have greater protection when a relationship breaks down.
Legal Issues around marriage/cohabitation and relationship breakdown are explained here:

www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/relationships_e/relationships_living_together_marriage_and_civil_partnership_e/living_together_and_marriage_legal_differences.htm#Ending_a_relationship
static.advicenow.org.uk/files/benefits-and-livingtogether-2010-11-1161.pdf

DirectGov advice on divorce, separation and relationship breakdown:
www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Divorceseparationandrelationshipbreakdown/index.htm

Legal Rights are further explained here:

www.rightsofwomen.org.uk/legal.php#children_relationship_breakdown

I found these guides from law firms quite informative and easy to read ? there are others of course:
www.family-lawfirm.co.uk/uploaded/documents/Surviving-Family-Conflict-and-Divorce---2nd-edition.pdf

www.terry.co.uk/hindex.html

Finance

Before you see a family law solicitor, get hold of every single piece of financial information you can, and take copies. Wage slips, P60s, tax returns, employment contracts, pensions and other statements ? savings, current account and mortgages, deeds, rental leases, utility bills, council tax bills, credit statements. Are there joint assets such as a home, pensions, savings, shares?

CSA maintenance calculator:
www.csacalculator.dsdni.gov.uk/calc.asp
Handy tax credits calculator:
taxcredits.hmrc.gov.uk/Qualify/DIQHousehold.aspx
Handy 5 Minute benefit check, tax and housing benefit calculators:
www.moneysavingexpert.com/family/

Support for women:

www.maypole.org.uk/
www.womensaid.org.uk/
www.gingerbread.org.uk/
england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/families_and_relationships

(Re Shelter and all other advice websites - if you are not in England follow the links for the relevant advice eg Scotland, Wales)

Thank you so much for your advice. I have made appointments to see a solicitor and for the two of us to have a mediation session, hopefully we'll be able to sort at least some of this out calmly between us.

Izzyizin that's my main worry at this point, I don't think he would do that but then I don't know for sure. There has been violence over the past few weeks and so I wouldn't feel safe leaving DD with him alone as it is.

This is the first baby for both of us. I think DH is worried he's going to lose out on a proper relationship with DD, yes- both of us had little contact with our dads growing up so I think he's scared of history repeating itself. I want DD to have a relationship with him too but obviously that is only an option if it's safe, which I don't feel it is at the moment.

Irrespective of your concerns for your forthcoming pfb, get everything relating to his behaviour written down to aid your own memory and as much as you can documented by others such as your GP/midwife.

If he should become violent again, whether towards you physically or by threatening/shouting or similar, PLEASE dial 999 and get the police to remove him/calm him down and record the incident.

You cannot takes any chances with a newborn.

To my mind having him present would be an unacceptable risk as well as a source of unnecessary stress for you, but If you are planning to have him as your birth partner make sure that his unpredicability and the possibility that, whatever day she makes her entrance into the world, he may attempt to remove your baby from the ward/hospital, is recorded on your notes and known to those who attend you.

When you hold your pfb in your arms your maternal instinct will kick in and I have no doubt this will give you the impetus to kick him into orbit touch in no uncertain terms.

OK OP you also need to protect yourself as well as your DD as he is violent. Don't let him be present at the birth or in hospital. Disengage from conversations about contact and do it all through a solicitor. Entering into this kind of debate/arguing will be damaging to you and at 33 weeks pregnant you have enough to be thinking about.

I didn't think mediation was appropriate where there was violence (may be wrong). Olgaga has posted some excellent resources and advice there.

If he took this proposal to court he would be laughed out of it. He is very very very unlikely to get 50/50 contact with such a small baby especially as you are on maternity leave. Even with an older child, if you are primary carer then you will maintain that. I agree with izzyin, he is doing this to try and control you. In fact I would go so far as to say that as soon as the reality of sleepless nights, drudgery of changing nappies, clothes etc kicks in, he would be reneging on this "deal" (or passing it on to his mother, new girlfriend, sister etc).

I split with my H about 5 months ago, 15 weeks pg with no.2.

I did lots of research on the best thing for our newborn and DS who is nearly 2, to maintain contact and develop a relationship with both of us. The main thing that came across in almost all the literature I found was that for a baby and young toddler, the fundamental thing is stability of attachment and like it or not that means to their primary carer (you). In the early days your baby should spend the majority of her time with you, to promote secure attachment and positive psychological development. It's not in the baby's interests to spend days with you followed by days with dad.

The advice pretty much universally says to arrange (where possible) regular, short contact with the NRP. Ideally, a couple of hours at a time, as frequently as you can manage, but say 3 times a week would be a good starting point. The more often your DD sees your ex the better. But it's about quality and frequency, not about the length of time she is with him right now. In fact, she will likely bond better if she sees him when she is happy and contented and secure (fed, well rested, calm etc). If you can arrange for him to visit at times when this is likely to happen such as after a feed, and involve him in things like giving her a bath, settling her etc, then both you and your baby will build up a confidence in his bond with her so that longer periods happen naturally over time.

It's hard on the parents to arrange things this way but much, much better for the baby. Only you know whether your separation will allow you to work together in this way. Don't put yourself under undue stress to make things perfect though, the fact is they aren't perfect and that's ok. She will still thrive with love and attention, but she needs her mummy to be well, calm and supported as a priority.

Good luck. I'm due this week and I had a bit more time to get used to the situation when we split, but it's still bloody scary and hard. Do PM me if you need to chat at all, I'm happy to offer a sympathetic ear - and I know it's a bit of a rollercoaster coping with it all while pregnant too!!