In desperate need of advice

[pixiecalledfrog]

I was putting my eldest ds (4) to bed and he wanted me to tickle him. I started to tickle him and he said he wanted me to 'tickle his bits'. Obviously I said no cos they are private, and other people aren't allowed to touch his bits. He then said 'but I like it, Daddy tickles them, and it's ok to touch bits if I want people to touch them'

Told dh the conversation word for word and he was mortified, not over the top drama and denial, but stunned and lost for words, and very upset.
Have never ever had reason to suspect dh of anything, and I really believe that if did ever touch ds then he accidentally brushed ds bits during tickling, but I'm really worried that someone else may have touched my ds.

Was on holiday last week with dh's dsis and her family, could one of them done something? The way ds rationalised someone else touching him seems way beyond a 4 yo capabilities, has someone else put it into his head?

I feel sick and shakey, what odd I do?

Did your dh say he hadn't?? Even accidentally??

It does sound like he is repeating something he was told... But would he have heard this at nursery or school??? ( wracking brain for something plausible - sorry)

I think you need to have a talk with your DS tomorrow and ask him who told him "it's ok to touch bits if I want people to touch them." Just make it a lighthearted conversation, don't make out you're concerned.

Dh said that he'd never ever done anything like that and even when cleaning him he was careful to be as brief as possible. I believe him.

I was tampered with as a very small child and I don't know by whom, so at the back of my head there is always an alarm bell ringing about everyone, dh, dm, db etc. but I always ignore it as I 've never seen any evidence of anything untowards concerning my DC's and I know that my own experiences have left me overly suspicious.

I'm having trouble knowing if this is one of my irrational suspicions gone crazy, or if I'm behaving as any normal parent would in persuing something that needs investigation.

I know I need to be careful not to put ideas into ds's head, and also not to scare him by being intense.

Feel like my chest is going to explode, having panic attack. Am I being way over the top about this?

I'm no expert, but no, I don't think you're being over the top. You are being a responsible parent, and yes if it were me, I would investigate further.

Hope it does turn out to be ok though.

No, your worries are valid, particularly given your own experiences.

Do you think you could sit down with your DS tomorrow and say "You know you said last night DS that it's ok to touch bits as long as you want people to touch them?" "I was just wondering, did someone tell you that or is it something you thought up all on your own?"

And see what he says.

I'm afraid that if he so clearly said without any prompting from you ''but I like it, Daddy tickles them, and it's ok to touch bits if I want people to touch them' then you have your answer. It's not anyone else

Thanks Cailin, I will try that, but he often claims to have done/said/thought things that are actually other people's experiences and ideas, so I expect he will say he thought of it himself.

Forty, ds's versions of everyday events are so mixed up anyway. He often mixes up people and events so I really can't be sure of anything. I'm not discounting anything either.

His choice of words suggests that he's repeating what someone else has told him, or something he's heard and got hold of the wrong end of the stick.

When you were on holiday last week was he socialisingwith older children out of your sight/earshot? Does he attend nursery/pre-school?

Please try not to panic. Your ds is coming to the age of magical thinking where the lines between fact and fiction can become blurred.

On holiday he was the oldest child there. He goes to pre-school and went to nursery 2days a week until a couple of months ago, so plenty of contact with other children.

If this turns out to be a misunderstanding i Feel like there could be real damage to my marriage anyway. How does someone get over being accused of touching their dc? I will be forever suspicious of dh whatever the outcome, cos how can you ever be really sure?

From what you've said, you haven't 'accused' your dh of behaving inappropriately with ds and in that respect there's nothing for him to 'get over'.

Trust your instincts. If you've hitherto had no reason to be suspicious of your dh in relation to his dc, don't let your imagination rush to judge him.

We put our faith in those we love and cherish but we can never be as certain of others as we are of ourselves. Many have discovered this to their cost but countless others have had their faith rewarded.

A 4 year old's thinking can be muddled; wait until later today when you can calmly and talk to ds without putting any words into his mouth. Hopefully, you'll find that there's an innocent explanation for what he told you last night.

When you talk to your ds avoid giving him an either/or question and pick a moment when ds is sitting quietly and is partly distracted by a book or toy.

Casually say 'did someone tell you that it was ok for people to touch your bits if you want them to?' and wait for a response before framing further questions such as 'who touches your bits?', 'when do they touch your bits', 'can you show me how they touch your bits?'.

Keep it brief; no more than a few minutes and don't show any anxiety at his responses as he may feel that he's duty bound to tell you what he thinks you want to hear.

Phone NSPCC you don't have to give your name and they give good advice on this...like Izzy say could be blurred...And common thing as ds might just discovered he has thickly bits on his body? Go with your 'gut' instinct too!

My ds was hit a lot by his df at that age and ds has memories from 3.8 yrs and didn't have language to say until 6 yrs old...but because ds was asked leading questions the evidence could never be used!

I advise you to draw pictures with ds not questions and see what happens? Keep pictures too! Ds drew one and I threw it out not realising!

I'd advise you to go straight to the nspcc for guidance as you are too close to the situation.

They should have up to date protocol for tackling this, has someone done something, has he seen something between you and your dh accidentally, has he discovered something about himself or, worst of all and I don't even want to type it, if he is being abused is "daddy" the name of the abuser.

Because of the variables, the age, the outside contact I would strongly urge asking for professional help.

I suggest that you keep this in perspective. You're not expected to question your ds as if you're a trained psychologist or have extensive experience in the field of child sexual abuse.

You know your ds better than anyone. Ask him a couple of casual questions in a child/parent appropropriate manner, and make contact with the NSPCC if your fears are not allayed by his answers.

Please don't let your imagination run away with you as this could very well be a case of him being misinformed by another child, or of him having misunderstood something he's been told by another child or adult.

It really could be that noone has done this to him. He likes it... And a common theme for kids when you say no is to claim that daddy or mummy let's me. Is the phrase he came out with completely out of character for him? Perhaps he was just remembering something he was told at preschool - 'don't do that unless they want you to' probably said quite often to prevent over zealous kissing and cuddling by other children etc but perhaps part of a general personal safety chat?? I think your dh must feel awful but he should also be able to understand that your are being a patent to your son

Could it be that he does like it?

I have a 4yo DS who has HFA (autism) and he thinks it's totally hilarious having his willy dried after bath time. I don't for a second think there is anything untoward going on (primarily because of his condition, DS spends pretty much every single waking moment in my presence )

That's not to say I think you are over reacting, you have (for your own sanity) ensure your child's safety, just saying that there is a massive chance this is nothing but an innocent statement.

I think you need to try to keep calm, hard I know. Personally I would accept at least for how trust your dh and your instincts, I would ask a couple do general casual questions and if you are not satisfied with his answers then call the nspcc for guidance. Your dh must understand that you are being a good mother. I have a 4 year old ds myself I hope everything turns out well and there is a innocent explanation.

I agree on speaking to the NSPCC. my friend's son was abused for yrs by a family member and she suspected nothing. when it all came out she sent her DD (who is still unaware of situation) to speak to someone to accertain if she had been affected too. as far as we know she had not but they were pleased my friend had not tried to get it out of her as it gave her DD's answers more credence.

It could all turn out to be nothing, but for you own sanity you must check it out.

Hi, phoned NSPCC and out HV and they have both put our fears to rest.

When we told them what ds said they both asked if he was the type to play us (me and dh) off against each other. He often says 'well mummy lets me' and similar things when he's told he can 't have/do something, but cos of the nature of his request I didn't see that this was one of those times. Both HV and NSPCC said they had heard stuff like this before, and that it wasn't unusual for him to ask for this sort of thing.

HV also asked us to explain how we have dealt with conversations about bodies and privacy, and it seems that the language I've been using needs altering. If he tries to touch my breasts I always say 'no, we don't touch people's bits without permission', so he came to the conclusion that he can give permission and be tickled. I need to change it to just 'some bits are private' and leave it at that.

Tonight at bed time he asked for the same thing, dh and I were both there, and we asked where he got the idea from, and if anyone had told him it was ok to do that. He said he thought of it himself cos our younger ds (18 months) does it!

So thanks for the advice, not going to worry about 2 little boys grabbing in the bath or anything like that. Totally trust that nobody has been interfering with ds.

Thanks again.x

Thanks for the update - I'm so pleased that your fears have been eased. I had a hunch it might be something around that playing each other off each other issue - happy to hear everything is okay

Sometimes it helps to remember that a child doesnt associate sexuality with their 'bits'.

I can completely understand why you're panicking OP. Others have much better advice than I can give. But I just wanted to post to say that children do say some completely bizarre things at that age. My DP's DD is also 4. This morning she got in bed with me and her dad and whispered to him, "daddy, what is that girl's name lying next to you?". A nuts question because I've known her nearly half her life and I see her nearly every day.

He said "who do you think it is." And straight away she said "madonnawhore!".

I only mention it because it's a good example of how chlidren's brains can work in very odd ways and this might well be something your DS has picked up somewhere else and is regurgitating.