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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Dh behaving like he is single??

52 replies

Windandsand · 23/06/2012 20:41

Tonight we went to a barbecue and dh spent the entire evening chatting to his friend - didn't even see him as they sat in a private part of the garden- they are business associates. Dcs fell asleep and dh drive us home, then left me to put the dcs to bed whilst he sat on the loo. Then he said he was going out to watch the football with some mates and left. Is this normal? Feel very lonely and let down - I did say he was being unfair but he just said I was being a bitch and I knew he wanted to watch the football. Am I? He said I should be more supportive and I was trying to spoil his night.

I realise we argue all the time now, even the dcs under 5 tell us to stop. He says it's my fault and I need to be nicer. He is always at work, or out after work getting home after midnight and too tired to even take ds to football. We used to be happy but now I feel like we are on opposing teams. Am worried what will happen to us.

OP posts:
Windandsand · 24/06/2012 04:04

Nanny plum, he has never got up in the night nor in the morning with the dcs even on holiday. He is too tired. He won't even take d.s. to football as its on too early for him and he wil be over the limit to drive. The one time he took ds to school he got lost and ended up on the motorway. Ds told me, not him.

Looking at his phone , is nothing incriminating on it.

We seem to have lost the way a lot. And don't like the way we bicker in front of dcs. He often drags them into it- mummy is s grumpy mummy, daddy was late working last night so he is tired!!! I hate this kind if crap. I want to say to ds, no, daddy was out on the lash, and cant be arsed to get up, that's why he doesn't want to take you to football.

OP posts:
LurkingAndLearningForNow · 24/06/2012 04:22

Wait..He lost your child who ended up on the roads and he DDN'T EVEN TELL YOU?! Shock

Windandsand · 24/06/2012 04:28

He was in the car and couldn't remember where the school was. He got on the motorway by accident. He didn't tell me as he knew it made him look bad. It did.

OP posts:
gatheringlilacs · 24/06/2012 04:30

I think he's behaving unacceptably.

His behaviour isn't uncommon. Sadly. Basically, there is a power imbalance in your relationship: you are limited in your capacity to move freely, go out on a him, etc. because of the children - you are far too responsible to just walk out and leave them, and, bceause you are physically there with them, it slides into you being responsible for fixing childcare for when you are not there and, from that, to all the time with the children being your responsibility unless otherwise negotiated and stated in advance.

also there is a financial imbalance. your work at home is not visibly waged. In our current society it thus can become invisible - you're not working! (so strange, that, because I'll bet it bloody feels like work) - and the family income appears to come solely from his work.

All of this is crap. Men gain hugely from having children. They gain the respect of their peers (probably shouldn't be this way - but it certainly seems to be so) in a way that women just don't. They are perceived as trustworthy and responsible () - and all this often translates into promotions and business deals and increase in status and income.

They also gain a stability and base of affection (from partner and children) which is, ironically, often facilitated by the woman's work. Again, this has benefits in terms of wealth, health and confidence.

given all this, it is utterly bizarre that some men will still, instead of acknowledging that this is a partnership, with many benefits, and something to put work into cherishing and protecting will, instead, rfer back to veryold-fashioned conceptions of what marriage and partenrships are, and exploit the potential power imbalances.

I have a theory about this: we tend to privatise that relatinship between man and woman. It becomes up to the woman to stop that exploitation. She's supposed to get tough with Mr. Entitled, rustle up some challenges to his behaviour. Or leave.

And, of course, this may work.

But ... I reckon that when Mr. Entitled starts exploiting the differences between himself and his partner, he is actually covertly referring to wider social models - to nasty old-fashioned discourses about what a man has rights to as "Head of the family". And he is referring to wider society, in which it can be hard to be a woman raising children on her own (the thing that can stop a woman resorting to the Ultimate Sanction at the first sign of Crap Behaviour) - which can involve cultural sanctions (Did the woman leave for a good enough reason; is a woman desirable after having had children; women's lesser earning power; and more).

given this, I don't think it is just a question of the individual woman dealing with her partner. I think there is a whole question about why it is that more people don't actually step in and tell the man to pull his socks up.

Why is that?

I do think that mn is quite rare in being one of the places you really will hear that this sort of behaviour is unacceptable.

It's a guess, but OP, the fact that you are not sure if it's OK or not says a lot about what you see and hear around you.

As for what to do .... Well, given that your friends, families and acquaintance are probably not going to take your dh to one side, I guess you are left with the individual approach. We on here can tell you that he's not treating you with enough equality and respect. Will that build your confidence?

After that, you probably are left with challenging him. for that , you will need confidence, and belief that you have the right to better. You do have the right to better.

LurkingAndLearningForNow · 24/06/2012 04:30

Not telling you raises a huge red flag..What else hasn't he told you about? :( I really feel for you hun.

Why doesn't he know where his son's school is? Confused

gatheringlilacs · 24/06/2012 04:56

OK. That wasn't very helpful.

My ultimate belief is that the privatisation and individualisation of difficulties such as this are ultimately unhelpful to women.

But given that we've not reached the Promised Land yet, you may, indeed, have to take an individualised approach.

Some ideas:

  1. Stop minimising his behaviour. It makes you feel bad. That is a good enough reason for him to stop, and change, frankly. But, just in case you don't think that's enough, you've run some of the situation past your peers on mn, and quite a few of us think he's out of order. So recognise that it is out of order.
  1. Be loving of yourself, and respectful of yourself. Embrace what you are owed as a person, and as partner, mother, etc.
this is hard, because his bahviour is chiefly having the effect of eroding all that. Also, there will be a little soundtrack inside your head telling you that it is all your fault for not "handling" him well, perhaps not having chosen the right life-partner; maybe wondering if all those sneaky discourses that say you don't work, are a bit demanding, etc. have a point. None of this is true. As said in previous post - your dp gets a lot out of this relationship - provided by you. You are doing a lot. And doing it well. How competent at this you are!! And as a person, you just do have a right to be treated with respect and cherished.
  1. Really appreciate what you do. And thus the cards you are holding.
  1. Accept that this is crunch time. There really is a power struggle going on in your reationship. You are losing. It's going to stop. Now.
  1. Believe this.
  1. Have a think about what you want. Many people are not clear about their agenda. Many people are too "nice" to have an agenda. Consequently, they end p following the agenda of others.
Make sure you have a little list in your head of what you need changing, and to what. It doesn't have to be fully itemised. It can be quite vague. but you need to have an idea.
  1. Have the "discussion". Really believe in how pissed off you are; how much right you have to be pissed off; that you are worth actually, really leaving this relationship for - if it comes to that. but also make it darned clear that it is his bahviour that is at fault, he is being utterly foolish and childish and refusing to do some fairly minimal things that are, currently, putting all his wonderful benefits in jeopardy.

You really do have to believe it, I'm afraid. I think long training in privilege has meant that a lot of men just do not take complaints seriously; they really have to believe it.

In an ideal world, all you would have to say is: "This is making me unhappy. Let's change the way we're operating to something that makes both of us as happy as we can be." and he'd be ther, with you, trying to work out a way you can all live best together.

Sadly, it sounds as though you're a little beyond that. but probably not at the divorce stage yet. So it is worth having that very serious discussion.

gatheringlilacs · 24/06/2012 05:00

I really, really don't like the fact that he ridiculed your sanity when you suggested he might be having an affair, either, to be honest.

I'm not suggesting he is having an affair but there was nothing illogical in your reasoning.

He really should have been apologising for having been bahving in a way to make that plausible, rather than calling you mad and irrational.

HotDAMNlifeisgood · 24/06/2012 08:22

Whitworm have you read the links at the start of the EA thread?

OP's DP is taking the piss. WTF can't he see it?

Wrong question. The right question would be "WTF can't she see that he chooses to behave this way?". He is perfectly content with his behaviour, and has no incentive to change it. Hoping and praying another person will start treating us better is pointless. Accepting that they are treating us badly, and that we cannot change their behaviour, is the first step out.

My DP says I am a miserable cunt when I kick off when he comes home 2 hrs late from the pub. Seriously how do I get him to stop calling me that word??

You can't: only he can do that. His lips, under his control only. There is nothing you can do to control his actions. You can only control your own. So: what are you going to do?

He called you a miserable cunt. You know that this is abuse, right?

RandomMess · 24/06/2012 08:30

SadAngrySad

My marriage is far from perfect neither of us behave like this though.

Lizzabadger · 24/06/2012 08:35

He sounds dreadful and I doubt he will change.
Do you really want to be with someone like this?

bleedingheart · 24/06/2012 08:48

Does he do anything with the children?
I agree that you should have a babysitter but so that you can go out with friends or to take up a hobby.
I cannot believe how entitled and selfish he is! I don't understand why people like this have wives and children. Going on late night piss ups every other night? Is he 18? Pathetic.

Finallygotaroundtoit · 24/06/2012 08:49

Please don't take up the suggestion to get in a stranger to babysit or to do controlled crying [shudder]

Both are distressing things for dcs who have emotional stability and parents who love each other. For yours it could be disastrous.

Your kids are suffering as well

Pedigree · 24/06/2012 08:58

Your words ring a bell for me, I agree that he is wrong in the eay that he is approaching the situation, totally wrong, but as some other person said above. You have to make space to nurture yout iwn relationship.

You need to sort the children first, you cannot expect him to become an involved parent if you allow the children to push him to the side by giving up and taking over from him when he is trying to get involved. Let the children cry, and let your dh sort it. If you intervene, you are reinforcing the idea to dad and children that he is not good enough to do the job. You are not allowing your h to understand the responsibility and work involved in bringing up children, and you are not allowing your children the opportunity to steenghten the bond with their father.

I am divorced because my ex didn't do the switch properly between singlelife and parenthood. I often felt like you do now, but looking back, i wish I had not been so precious about Leaving Ds with babysitters, now that I have to use babysitters because there is no dad around, I can see that Ds would have been fine and perhaps things could have been a bit different.

I think you both need to go to relate but you shouldn't approach coinseling as the victim, his behaviour is unacceptable, but you also need to change if you want the things to improve.

Remember that most marriages tgat end up in divorce, do when there are young children around. It is natural, you have too much work and need more help and he is feeling he is not getting any positive attention from you. The good news is that things will get better in the future when the children are older and less demanding, you just need to ensure your marriage survive this difficult phase.

LurcioLovesFrankie · 24/06/2012 09:04

Whiteworm - you say your friends are shocked at your husband for using the c word, and quite rightly so. But then you go on to say their husbands wouldn't dare. Can you maybe think about this another way - the way you phrase it suggests that secretly they'd like to but the power balance in their relationships is such that they refrain. How about considering this possibility - their husbands are genuinely nice men who wouldn't even think about their wives in these terms because they love and respect them? I know this might not be comfortable because it brings you face to face with the possibility that your husband is happy to call you this because he is not a nice man and does not love or respect you (in fact, I think it's more than a possibility, it's a certainty). But hang on to the fact that it's not to do with you - you come across as a lovely person - it's do do with him and he sounds like a shit.

Pedigree · 24/06/2012 09:06

FinallyGot around, I would choose controlled crying and babysitters for the sake of giving the marriage a chance. Anytime.

At the end of the day, she will need to resolve the situaion now, or when she is a single parent. Frankly, you can't parent effectively singlehandedly if you are not having any rest/time to yourself.

LurkingAndLearningForNow · 24/06/2012 09:12

Agree Pedigree

Romilly70 · 24/06/2012 09:21

what Pedigree has said really resonates with me.
Our DS is 20months and it is really tough on our relationship, but looking back it is not as bad as it was last year when he was waking constantly and I was a sleep deprived "zombie".

My relationship with DP is at times EA, have posted on that thread and found the links useful.

Nothing is black and white, OP i am not condoning your DH's behaviour but one thing he said about being tired is true, although his lack of consideration is more stressful.
Also, i wish i had been a bit less pfb about using childcare for DS, as now i really need it, i am struggling to find a nursery place for him, when i need the mental space away from him (& admittedly) DP, just for me.

Basically from a chatting amongst friends in RL, it would appear that once you are a mum, because it is instinctive to put your DC's first, we get screwed over by their father's, certain of whom have no compunction in putting their needs (for leisure, sleep, etc) first.
I guess we could learn a bit from them about trying to put our needs first ocassionally....

Finallygotaroundtoit · 24/06/2012 09:32

So make the kids suffer to appease a selfish man?

I think the problems go deeper and he is using the kids as an excuse.

I think Op has got an inkling that even if she 'puts him first' Hmm - it won't be enough

Pedigree · 24/06/2012 09:48

They will suffer more if he walks out.

RandomMess · 24/06/2012 09:59

I would prioritise sorting out your dcs sleep first, not using controlled crying but there are other methods to get them to sleep through. How old are they?

I'd start a seperate thread on this in the appropriate section so you've got some support whilst you do it.

Once they sleep much better at night then yes book a babysitter - for you to go out with friends if need be.

Work on yourself and then address your relationship when you are more incontrol of your freedom and believe in yourself worth.

I would also start writing down his unacceptable behaviour so you have it there in black and white. Can you muster the strenght to refuse to engange in arguing with him in front of the dc? "I'm not discussing this now" and walking off?

LurcioLovesFrankie · 24/06/2012 10:01

I disagree, Pedigree. Growing up watching one parent emotionally abuse the other is a poisonous and miserable existence, and totally undermines the children's view of what relationships should be like, leaving them open to growing up prepared to put up with this sort of shit from their husband or turning out to be the shit themselves, because that's all they've seen modelled. I have watched this happen to close family members (and when I say turn out to be the shit, that's an understatement - rellie in question has been diagnosed as psycopathic by the criminal psychologist who deals with him as part of the terms of his probabtion: it's possible he might have turned out that way anyway, but would have had a better chance if his mother had been better supported in leaving her git of a husband rather than being told by religious elders that marriage was sacred). Better a happy single mother than a miserable married mother and utter git of a husband.

LurcioLovesFrankie · 24/06/2012 10:03

www.jackyfleming.co.uk/pages/cards06.html Temper!

clam · 24/06/2012 11:02

"Looking at his phone , is nothing incriminating on it."
Can I suggest looking for a second phone then?

And this 'business associate.' Male or female?

ExpatAl · 24/06/2012 11:14

I don't think, Clam, you can assume he's having an affair just because he's distanced himself from his family. It sounds like a bit of a car crash. OP, do you think if you got a grip on your ds that things might calm down? At age six, I would have thought you could go out from time to time leaving him with a babysitter. But do you want to?

janelikesjam · 24/06/2012 11:22

And more hugs

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