is it, am I or is he?? Abusive relationship???

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Party this weekend.

Asked H to look over shopping list (sandwiches and stuff) incase there wasn't anything he liked (he has real ishoos with food and wanted a BBQ for this weekend - BBQ for 40 in the rain?? - and is annoyed that we are now spending money on food he doesn't like)

H sits at computer next to me, gets out phone, starts txting, (Carry on, I am listenning)

Rolly eyes and huffs and puffs start, plus atmosphere, as 'rolls' are seen at top of list (Why you trying to impress people we don't need to impress...our friends...just get bread)

Showed other ideas for making easy weekend. I am starting to feel crushed (stoopid I know - crushed over sandwich fillings FFS!) We are supposed to be working on our relationship so told him I didn't feel he was being supportive - just wanted to get some nice food for the party.

Mr Shouty enter stage left...told, in no uncertain terms just how supportive he is, esp as I do stupid things like painting - he hasn't said a WORD about that and been v. v. supportive about it even tho it was stopid, before the party this weekend.

I am trying to walk away (not always successfully and here's the tricky bit for me, as I am prone to argue back and be spiteful too...so I think, maybe, I am just as bad and maybe, I am an abusive person too )

He has always had a short and firey temper and always been shouty - often had me in tears even in the early days. He has moved on to name calling a LOT and recently latched onto the B word as he found out I really HATE it (used to use whore and selfish, but they don't bother me so much)

Has been physically intimidating, but only shoving me with his body IYSWIM, and stopping me from leaving the house a few times when DC2 was a baby, and the odd body barge and finger in the face shouty person.

I do shout back (tho less frequently now, as I want this to stop/change)

He has physically gone for me before and once tried to choke me with his arm. Really thought he was going to break me that time - DC2 was old enough to pop on the floor as H dragged me across the room I was leaving, in order to do what he wanted me to do, which was go to my parents for the weekend and leave him the house. Didn't want to drive 70+ miles on motorway with no sleep (DC2 was teething mercilessly!) so was still at home when he got back from work and he went megga nuts...as I hadn't called him to let him know me and the kids would be in his house - anyone would think we were lodgers... Got the dcs to go out of the house, told them to goto neighbour/friend, but dc1 was so embarressed they walked the block and called police. All over by time the bussies got there - I am no shrinking violet and fought back and got away - went to look for kids and neighbours thought that was why police were there.

This was the first time he took responsibility for his actions, but only because I made him. And now he holds this against me, how I made him 'grovel' in order to stay in the relationship...

He really is awful. You are right - he is trying to break you.

Interesting that you started it off with a really minor thing (the bread rolls) and ended up almost as an afterthought telling us that he'd choked you. Have you downplayed that incident in your mind? Has he persuaded you that you were really in the wrong there?

I think you should leave him. You say he's taken responsibility for his actions, but he hasn't. He says you made him grovel. He's not accepting any responsibility.

Things will get worse than this, believe me. You should leave him now, while you can.

There is loads of stuff like this.

I know it's messed up and it's really bad with children in the middle of it.

They adore him (most of the time) and he's really fun with them (most of the time).

Friends have questioned the way he speaks to me and eldest dc and his sister once really told him off about it. One set of friends - even the man- said they were suprised how he spoke to me at one gathering. One friend asked me if everything was ok the other day.

H puts most of it down to me not working so I don't have anything important to worry about and obsess about small things.

Also it's my fault he suffers from depression and over eating - as I am a shite wife and partner. More sex would obviously make it better, but I know that's a crock of shite rubbish as have been there and tried that before. had sex last weekend to try and get things a bit better - we've been seperate rooms for about last 5 years and not very affectionate. I find it difficult to be intimate with someone who, on the one hand calls me a stupid fucking bitch, a lot of the time, rarely talks to me or says hello or goodbye, occassionally kisses me and thinks that foreplay is grabbing various bits of my body when I'm busy doing something else and makes lewd comments infront of the teenaged dc.

I just don't know if it's him, me or probably, the both of us.

I don't know whether to stay, play a long game, leave...what.

I don't want my girls to grow up and think it's normal to be treated like this or my boy to think he should treat his partner like this...really don't know what to do.

Oh for god's sake, will you just read your posts?

I'm sorry, but this is making me really angry. What do you mean, should you play the long game? This man is physically, verbally and emotionally abusive. The only thing I'd be hoping for long-term is for him to fall over a cliff. Actually, that would be a very short-term goal.

Why on earth do you stay with him?

Know what to do now - have seen the time and must go to bed and sleep.

The thing is reading a lot of the stuff about abusive relationships and abusers - I could easily be identified as an abusive person from some of the things I've done, plus what I've typed here is only my version of life as it is. He would have a very different version.

Things have got a lot better of late - the choking thing was over 2 years ago, but I just don't believe this 'better' will last and everytime I go, phew, it's over and now we can get on with being the happy, contented couple we ought to be, it blows up over something stupid. Not physically, not often. The bussies came to us for a second visit at the end of last year and I nearly asked them if these sort of things ever got better. Couldn't bring myself to ask. They just told me how upset H was (course he would be - I told him if he ever touched me with anything less than affection, I'd divorce, he must have been v. v. worried, normally I am a woman of my word - but then I woosed out.

He's been in floods of tears this evening after we had words. I was horrid and told him to chat to his solicitor girly mate before he was crying - I'm not quite that nasty...), whose coming this weekend, about getting a divorce.

Difficult thing is he's not a total bastard all the time, sometimes he's really lovely and he appears to be trying to embrace change and do more progressive things, but then there are always glimmers of the old shouty man.

I don't trust him in some ways - most rlaxed I was in last couple of weeks was when he went away for work and I didn't hear from him for 2 days, even to say g'night to the smalls...bliss

Isn't the answer in the last para of your last post?

Do you honestly want your children thinking this is normal and then recreating the same relationship in their own adult lives?

Speak to a RL friend and get help to get out of this relationship now. For your sake as well as your children's.

In some ways ur right.

I will make a list of +++ and - - -.

Stay

Kids like him

Good financial provider (will pay bills, but constantly tell me we/he has no money)

Starting over is scary - I have done it before (so is it moi?)
I have no job currently
I am yet to figure out if divorce or staying will cause more damage to the chn - sorry but statistics show, blah blah blah...
If we live together I can moderate some things for the chn - if they were weekend visits I couldn't
Who knows - it might get better.......??(once upon a time I think we were happy, but I was much more acquiescent then...)
The weight of expectation from others - we have everything you could possibly ask for, children, house, financial stability, careers, posessions, lifestyle...WTF is wrong with you (me) many would say...knuckle down and make lemonade

Sariska - no I don't.

Have also read a lot about what can happen to chn when their parents are not emotionally available to them ie they don't learn relationships and have shite ones themselves.

It is tough tho and would all be my fault. And I think him and his family would fight like hell...I have history of PND...

We have been on the brink of divorce a few times, just feel so stupid not knowing what to do. Have spoken to one of my family about it - not given the whole detail, I just find it excruciatingly embarrassing that two grown-ups can act the way we do.

Then I think, oh, it's not so bad really, it's not like I've wound up in hospital or anything, it's only a bit of shouting and name calling, a bit of a spirited and 'passionate' (he always uses that word) argument...ho hum ho hum... he could be an UTTER bastard and not pay any money into the joint bank account or snort it all up his nose...

Plus I did get married in a church and make a promise. Sounds trashy I know, but my parents have managed to be married for 40+ years.

G'night.

God (or whoever) bless.

He got married in church and made a promise to you too. To love and to cherish you. And instead hes abusing you. Please speak to a friend and get some help to leave. Marriage vows arent just for the woman to keep.

Leave.Him.Now.

Which is so easy for me to say, but much much more difficult for you to undertake. This situation will not improve. At least not without a great deal of effort on his part. This man has already placed hands on you. I know you have made a church sanctioned promise to him. He has already broken his vow of promising to honour you. You will be of no assistance to your dc if you are in hospital or worse....
My thoughts are with you...xx

This man is not good enough for you. The only way you are 'abusive' is in response to him, fighting your tiny corner. This is horrible to read op, your dc are aware, your friends and neighbours too...most posters say no-one would believe them...not in your case.

If you really think he could improve, make him leave and work on it - a much stronger commitment than weeping and wailing in my book.

He is abusive. No it's not you You 'don't know whether to stay, play a long game, leave or what?' The answer to that would be LEAVE. It's not going to get any better, you can kid yourself but it really isn't (and I'm a glass half full person) Whatever you are feeling now, no matter what you have to go through, it will be better for you get out of the situation you are in. There are no binds. It's your life and your dc's and you are whittling it away with him. He will turn on the dc's soon enough - please don't wait around to see.

Do you think your children will look back on the time that they had to run out of the house and call the police fondly?

You have a responsibility to those children, you are their mother for god's sake. And yet you are continuing to allow them to live in a house where they see verbal and physical violence. How on earth could that be good for them?

Its him. He is abusive. There is no doubt about this. You are simply trying to survive in this house.

Your posts say so much about how twisted your perception of reality is. Of COURSE he's abusive. Of COURSE it's him. But you're not sure because although he's hurt you physically he's done much worse to you verbally and emotionally. If you start making steps to get out then in a year's time you will look back on your OP and shake your head and wonder how you could have doubted yourself.

He's NOT a good dad. He's already broken his vows. Your children are suffering by living in this atmosphere 7 days a week, soaking up a very twisted blueprint for marriage. He already is an utter bastard, just a different flavour. Of course he's nice some of the time. Noone is stupid enough to be such a bastard all the time because that would really set you free. He's giving you just enough humanity to give you hope and keep you there.

He is abusive.
Leave.

You can do it: you are strong enough (look at everything you put up with on a daily basis!), and there is a plenty of help out there if you ask for it.

You and your children deserve better than this.

Go.

Dear lord.

You're even asking?

He is 100% prime time abusive. And no, it's not you. You are clearly treading on eggshells unless he's physically absent.

He's clever though,I'll give him that. See how even the party thing was twisted...he wanted the BBQ,but you're spending too much money on it.

As for your +list......the kids like him because he's their dad. Until they are older,they are like puppies, you can mistreat them as much as you want and their love for you is still unconditional. But they will realise when they're older, and they won't thank you for keeping them in a powderkeg relationship and they will askyou why you stayed.

Its not you, its him. He is textbook abuser; that well worn script is being played out yet again in your marriage.

What do you get out of this relationship now?

What are you both teaching your children about relationships here?. Two words suffice - damaging lessons. He has done a number on you to date and continues to do so.

Your children are seeing their mother being abused by their Dad; he is patently not a good dad if he treats the mother of his children like this. Your children also will not thank you for staying with him and could well go onto wonder why you put him before them. Children love any parent no matter how abusive they are. Being brought up in such an environment will be far more damaging to them longer term than you divorcing your abusive H.

Get out whilst you can; he will destroy you in the end emotionally if not physically. The nice/nasty cycle is all part and parcel of abuse but it is a continuous cycle.

Do call Womens Aid and seek proper legal advice; there is help out there for you. You have to take the first and often the most hardest step to reach out for it.

You and your children deserve better.

Choking you and dragging you across the floor is assault. The rest is immaterial. The only person responsible for committing an assault you'll find is the attacker, not the victim. If a random stranger entered your home and attacked you, you would call the police, not wonder if they'd had a hard upbringing or if you had brought it upon yourself. Protect yourself and protect your children. Leave this abuser.

Right now, in order to survive, you've got your head down thinking "It's not that bad". It is that bad, and yes, it is him. I agree with talking to Women's Aid and a solicitor. Get information. You shouldn't have to live like this, and you shouldn't put your dcs through it either.

I understand that it's really hard to leave when he's nice sometimes. I kept thinking the abuse was just a bad habit and if we could break that habit, I'd get to bask in the loveliness that was the real "him". Ha.

As always recommended on here, read the Lundy Bancroft book "Why does he do that?" It shows that he doesn't have to be nasty all the time - just unleashing his temper sometimes is enough to keep everyone walking on eggshells and letting him have his way.

You are in survivor mode, anything vaguely resembling good behaviour is latched onto with hope. That is a rotten way to live.

Step back - think about it objectively. Think of it happening to your sister or your daughter - what would your advice be to them? If this was happening to your daughter I bet you would be trying to get her out of that situation as fast as possible.

You don't owe him anything at all - but you do owe yourself and your children. Neither you nor they deserve to live like this.

You think it might be you because you were in an abusive relationship before. Really, how likely is it that you are SO awful that you turned two perfectly nice men into vicious bastards? I mean, you do things like BUYING BREAD ROLLS FOR A BARBECUE, you ghastly selfish bitch-whore. No wonder all the men in your life want to choke you, right? Oh wait...

No, it's rather more likely that you aren't terribly good at spotting red flags at the start, and then stick with a relationship into the tied-down-with-children phase because you feel you should be working it out instead of running for the hills. That's why you've had more than one of the buggers. Not because you deserve them. Not because you "turn" them. But because you're far too nice to give them the heave-ho.

It's time to focus your niceness on yourself and DCs.

Thank you all for the support and wisdomy words.

Annie - last partner was just a womanising alcoholic, but he did tell me, when we split, he knew our dc woud be fine as I was a good mum...he wasn't all bad I just couldn't cope with his lifestyle and we were both really young. He has grown up a lot now, and although not what I'd describe as great material, isn't an utter sod (to me, but then I'm not his wife).

Nickname - I am a lot like that, just keep thinking - gosh, when we get through this and all abck to 'normal' everything will be fine again, once we've worked this out. Plus he keeps making all the right noises at the moment, just relapsing from time to time into Mr Shouty name caller. Hasn't pushed me around lately at all - but I do think once that line's crossed it's difficult to get back over it.

He couldn't be nicer this am. THAT's a change. He told me what he thought had gone wrong with us last night, that he really didn't mind what the party food was and he'd already said it was fine - I find this a bit confusing as sometimes yes means yes and sometimes yes means no...He was hurt that I thought he wasn't supportive and whatever I wanted was fine - I just needed to organise what I wanted. Thught I was making a big deal out of things and maybe was a bit stressed about the weekend.

Yes I am stressed about it. Would love a partner I could take that to and get reassurance (I know - a bit needy really).

Thought a lot about the chn love their parents anyway - and that's true.

Chitchat - I do spend a lot of time warning eldest about relationships and to check everything out objectively.

One of my friends grew up in a powder keg house. I've only known her as an adult, and she really didn't enjoy it much. All eggshells and accusations and shouting.

My relative thinks I should think seriously about leaving and see a solicitor.

I am thinking of the long game as I might even be able to get through the process of leaving calmly - he's not that happy and doesn't seem to enjoy things too much - by using the idea of disengaging.

Just feel so guilty, for all of us.

If we could cut straight to the morning discussion, without the shouting and name calling, maybe there'd be a chance...but I don't think he has the capacity to change to that extent.

He comes from a very confrontational family who seem to view arguing as a sport. His sister says horrid things to BIL and he says horrid things back (sounds like home). His mum and dad, although still married, argue and shout and name call and say really unkind and hurtful things to each other. He grew up in all this - I don't see how you can change what you were immersed in as a child, unless you make a HUGE effort, with support and counselling??

Thank you all so much for all support - don't know what I'll do yet, will just keep trying to figure it out. xx