Marriage really struggling - would really appreciate some advice and support

[BeechHedge]

I have been with DH 13 yrs, married 9, have DS1 5 and DS2 3.

We have been having a difficult time roughly since DS2 was born, or a bit before. Things are still up & down, but I think the trend is downward.

I've seen how fantastically supportive people can be on here, and I'd really appreciate some thoughts on our situation.

There is no DV or unfaithfulness. I recently read up a bit on EA - maybe a bit of this going on, but I think might be in a cycle of mutual unhelpfulness here rather than a full-blown EA issue from one of us.

DH

• has said he didn't really want the kids and they have caused him to not be able to lead the life he wants. (yes - I know it's a classic bad sign ). He's said this three times over recent months - each time the words are out his mouth he's already explaining that that's not really what he means - but it's certainly an element of how he is feeling
• is obsessed with his sporting hobby, will spend both weekend days, bank holidays, family holiday days doing it when possible. It's a weather-dependent thing so not feasible all the time - but for example in March & April he was out almost every weekend. He gets in a very black mood when the weather thwarts him too much, or he performs badly. He would almost always choose this sport over spending family time
• doesn't pull his weight with domestic chores etc. Knows this but just says, essentially, sorry but that's how it is. Perceives my asking him to do stuff as nagging / some kind of macho battle for who is doing more domestically.
• is good with the kids, they get on well - but he doesn't pull his weight with childcare (especially the mundane bits)

I

• have let us get in to the situation where DH is not pulling weight domestically
• actually don't mind the time spent on the hobby (which he clearly gets lots of enjoyment from and is an interesting, healthy pursuit) - but I do mind that he spends time away from the family doing this AND then does not fully engage with family life when he is around. (Also do resent the assumption that I'll cover the childcare / family stuff any time his hobby beckons - the assumption rather than the doing of it)

• found life quite difficult after DS2 - maybe a bit of PND but definitely just exhausted and felt a bit de-selfed and angry. DS2 was terrible sleeper for first two years - DH does no night-time parenting. Definite resentment over this, which is now in past. But it was a very difficult sleep-deprived time.

Situation is also more complex...

We run a business together - led by DH and in his professional area of expertise. I left a fairly high-flying career after DS1 born. Now work in the business ~3.5 days/week. Find it very difficult to work with DH. In my work role I am clearly a major disappointment to him. Business is young, growing, very hard work, in some ways successful but longer term outlook still very uncertain. We have taken only a nominal salary for last two years. We get WTC etc due to low income - also did have ample savings to allow us to live like this, but now have all savings invested in business. We have several employees and ongoing contracts - so if we fail / close the business it's all going to be quite messy. If we can get through the early years, business could be nicely successful and a real achievement and provide us a decent income. All this obviously rather stressful. Have recently tried working from home more, rather than office with DH. This has improved things.

DH has been depressed in the past, does have difficulties with low moods. He may well be depressed now. I have asked him in the past to seek help from GP - he has thrown this back at me as uncaring / passing the buck. I don't think I'm particularly good at supporting him when he is depressed - can just never seem to say the right thing.

We moved across the country just after DS1 was born. I have built up a good support network of friends (mostly other mothers that I've got to know). DH less so. Neither of us has 'old' friends or close family nearby. Actually, I've started to lose touch with old friends - the ones that I thought I'd stay in touch with over a lifetime - because I've found it difficult to have our difficulties 'on show' to them.

I haven't yet talked to my Mum about reality of how things are. I don't know how to bring it up.

Feels like it's just so difficult with strained marriage, everything riding on really hard-work and uncertain business. Is there any hope? What can / should I do?

I have namechanged. This post is very long but slightly cathartic to write down.

Bump.

There you are!

I'm really sorry as I have no answers for you at all, but your post totally resonates with how I'm feeling at the moment (although I'm 38 weeks pg
with DC2). Even down to the almost identical sounding hobby! So hope you get some helpful replies and maybe they'll help me too. Don't want to hijack your post though x

Ok. So given my proviso on the other thread, I would say:

Having tiny children is exhausting, setting up your own business is exhausting: both partners should be cutting each other a huge amount of slack but often don't. It often turns into a competition, although thsi doesn't sound like that's what's happening with you.

Having a DH who seems not to encourage you is exhausting.

What point are you at? Have you talked about the problems? Do you fight?

The two things that I would be most concerned about are: firstly, him committing time to the family. I don't think this has to be all of you together, but time he spends with all of you or some of you. Things aren't the same as they were before DCs. It seems so obvious to me but some people resist it very strongly.

And secondly you getting leisure time equal to his. This is simple fairness.

How would he respond to these?

Everything you describe here sounds like essentially the hard graft that can be family life. I'm not dismissing this at all, but just wondered what the straw is that has broken your back to it all?

Would you consider leaving the children with your mum and having a holiday just the two of you to re-connect with each other and target the issues in your marriage?

I have to say though, the hobby would DRIVE ME WILD, i really do not understand why men (and less commonly) women think that this sort of thing is OK when you have a family. It is not ok when the hobby takes priority over family time it is self centred and gives the message tht he would rather be doing something else - this infuriates me that women accept this (obviously you are not, but generally it makes me

Bump

Bump

What happened there? I wrote a huge post and lost it. Mind if I give you the summary?

Overall: when you still have such young children life is hideously tough. I think this sounds like a marriage that can and should survive.

1. have you considered working separately again? Who would leave the business and how?
2. get him to provide a calendar for the family and to write in his commitments - tell him you will provide childcare dealing with what he writes in the calendar but a) at least 48 hours notice needed and b) he has to look at what else is written in there, and take that into account in terms of providing childcare himself, not just insert his stuff over the top. Then make sure you write lots of stuff in yourself (not to be nasty, just the stuff you would do anyway). And make sure it includes stuff for you as well as family things.
3. Can he start including the eldest in his hobby? If not, ask him when that will happen and say how much you're looking forward to the day you can do it together/he takes the kids while you have time to yourself.
4. Depression - talk to Rethink. I'm not kidding. It is very very tiring having a partner with mental health issues. But I agree with him that it's a poor idea to medicalise what he's saying. For dh i never say 'why not call the GP' or, worse, 'have you taken your medication?' A few things that I find more helpful are 'tell me what's on your mind' and 'that's hard to hear'. Ask him what it's helpful to hear when he's depressed as you are finding it tough and want to help. He may even be able to give you almost literally a script for those times.

Thanks all.

I think the crux of the problem is actually how differently we deal with the stressful situation.

For example, I generally interpret it overall much as folk say above - young kids are hard, starting a business is hard, not surprising that life is therefore hard. But I tend to come at this optimistically - eg my family are supportive (though 400 miles away), there's lots of small things in life to take pleasure in, we can make the most of getting through stuff even though it's hard work, at the end of the day our worst case scenario finance/business wise is not THAT bad as we are both well educated, my parents have some £ and would not let the kids go hungry etc etc.

However, he's more moody / depressive and withdraws in to himself. He's very angry (emotionally, not physically) at life sometimes, and that can manifest itself as anger at me. He won't address fact that he is 'in the wrong' on domestic weight-pulling.

So it always seems to go very wrong when we try and discuss/address the issues. I feel like I've put a lot of effort in to reading up / learning about better parenting, better relationships etc, but he dismisses that kind of support as 'not interested'. I was prompted to post tonight as I got to stage today where I plucked up courage to decide that I had to talk to him about going for some marriage counselling for us, and for him to discuss depression with GP. I rehearsed how I'd talk to him about this. I picked my moment, did my best to bring this up in a sensitive, sensible way. He stormed out of room.

AnyFucker - what do you think?

'I had to talk to him about going for some marriage counselling for us, and for him to discuss depression with GP'

Try bringing up the problem first and talking about that, rather than going straight for the solution? Or does he avoid that too?

Thanks Joan - that's really helpful advice.

There are some particular issues with the hobby that means not realistic to involve kids until maybe older teens, and also can be very 'last minute' - but I think we can definitely work on ideas along the lines you suggest.

Working separately - we've initiated this by deciding that I'll work from home rather than office and to be fair to us this looks like it will help a lot. Me getting a separate, paid job is a potential - but atm my low-cost labour in the family business is pretty necessary. Financial footing of business will improve over time (that or will fail) - thus will be a more realistic option down the line. It would be a possibility now, but quite 'nuclear option' in some ways.

Depression advice - thanks. I'm really bad at saying the right thing.

We find it difficult to find a good time time to talk about the problem. Find this has to be dictated by when he wants to talk, not me. You're right that one interpretation tonight is my diving in with solution rather than being a listening ear.

Oh believe me, I frequently say the wrong thing despite having been at it for 8 years.

But if by 'wrong' you mean he gets angry, well, that's depression really, not you. I say again, call Rethink. You will be truly amazed at what its like talking to someone who actually understands. They have a helpline and can sometimes do 1:1 support at a place that suits you.

'low-cost labour'

The only thing is, it's not low-cost if the cost is your marriage.

Seriously, what does this man add to your life and the lives of your children? He doesn't pull his weight domestically, he is never around at family time, he doesn't engage with the family, he is angry and moody and frankly a bit whingey. What does he bring to the pot? It sounds like he just detracts.

It sounds like an extremely difficult situation for which there are no easy answers. Young children are stressful for a lot of people. And I also know quite a few people who have had or have issues with their partners hobbies taking up too much time.

But the working together thing does sound as if it is adding quite a huge amoung of more stress. I agree with the person who said to look into the possibily of not working together. Maybe some counselling would help to sort out the areas where you can change things. And work out the areas which are causing you the most stress.

Oh and you are a disappointment to him in business? Wtf? Jeez he sounds like a right bloody charmer.

Joan is this the right place? www.rethink.org/

(Am a bit scared by the 'serious mental illness' strapline (have family experience of sectioned schizophrenic relative, and DH situation oh-so-different from that) )

Abigail - if it was that black and white I would not have married him, had DCs, still be with him.

But really, you are doing all the running around appeasing, picking up the pieces and generally keeping the family together and he seems to just be behaving badly.

He must have good qualities but you haven't mentioned one thing.

And as for the business, you are a disappointment yet good enough to be essential (but of course low paid). Where does he value you?

On the thing I said about 'low paid'. It is NOT the case the DH is somehow reaping financial rewards from my slave labour in the business (domestic drudgery aside ). We have both chosen to invest our time and money (joint savings and foregoing salary) in the business. We own it 50/50 and draw the same nominal salary. Thus I'm actually being paid more per hour than he is.

But not low-paid if the cost is our marriage - agree with poster who said that and have used same words myself before.

Fair enough. Personally though I don't think I could get past my partner thinking I am a disappointment (I am sure you are not). Who does he think he is?

His behaviour just screams entitlement to me.

He thinks you're his inferior and that you exist for his benefit. That's hard to live with.