Do I make my 13 year old see her Dad or has he gone too far now?

[mylunchwasdull]

Would appreciate your thoughts on this as can't think clearly on what is the best thing to do.

I have been split up from him since she was 2 - she is now almost 14. It was an amicable split really and he has had her every other weekend since. He pays maintenance on time every month and is not in the slightest bit violent or aggressive. He lives with the woman he met very shortly after we split, so a 12 year relationship.

Anyway.. those are the good points! Here are the bad...

1. For many years now our DD has slept on the sofa for the weekend when she is with him. His girlfriend has 2 kids and one has only recently left home, freeing up a bed. He 'couldn't be bothered' to get a sofa type/temporary bed. So, aged 8 or 9, she would still be up at midnight when he went to bed.

1. He doesn't get out of bed until lunch time. Him and his girlfriend lay in bed until then, then he comes downstairs, makes a tray of food for them both and goes back upstairs where him and the g/f watch a dvd. He has done this for years now...leaving DD on her own , bored until at least 12/1pm. I have always ensured she packs books/laptop/kindle / toys over the years. This is every weekend more or less.

1. He very rarely does anything with her, never takes her out. Maybe once every 3 or 4 months at a push to a Hungry Horse pub for dinner or to go shopping with him and his g/f. She is constantly bored.

1. The comments over the years about me.... which brings me to the final straw [ I think! ] ... DD has told me many times that his girlfriend calls me a 'stupid cow' and other derogatory comments. This makes my DD feel awkward and upset.His girlfriend once said that i mouthed ' fuck off' to her across the street once. This is laughably untrue. I am pleasant, friendly if i see them and have no interest in either of them. Ive always, always promoted good relations between my ex and DD - calling him constantly to nag him to call her or attend a school play or to tell her 'well done' for a good school report.

Last week DD bumped into her dad and his g/f in town and mentioned that i was thinking about letting her have one more piercing in her ears and she said ' Mum doesn't really like it though so i'm having to try and get round her ... ' His g/f then said ' she wont let you? What a wanker she is ... '

DD came home and told me this so I called my ex. I was cool and polite but made it clear that this was unacceptable to me and that if they wished to call me a wanker would they please do it between themselves. He got very defesnsive, swearing at me and calling DD a liar and that the g/f never said this.

I replaced the handset as he was screaming at me to piss off and saying he wasnt putting up with DDs tale telling a moment longer. his gf then rang me ten minutes later... she said yes, she HAD called me a wanker and she was sorry but she just 'sometimes says these things' and 'doesn't think'... I said I appreciated the call to clarify, that i hoped this was the end of it and that they were to stop calling me names in front of dd.

The upshot is that my ex is not speaking to our DD. Childishly ignoring her really- no call, no text, blanked her for 40 minutes the other day when they were both at his other daughter's house.... He is VERY stubborn and ALWAYS sides with his g/f... he wont be cross with the g/f for calling me a wanker- he will be cross that DD told me.

DD is upset and says she no longer wishes to see him or spend the night there. Do I agree to this? Does this ratchet it all up? Do i make her go as usual?

WWYD?

OldMinnieC This isn't in any way an admonishment for raising your similar problem here but please start your own thread as there are numerous responders who will gladly give you the benefit of their experiences with same age dc and contact with controlling indifferent parents.

Thanks all

I don't actually have much to do with him as it is - like I said, he is inoffensive and certainly has no interest in talking with me over and above the basics. No unpleasantness, just ... it's been a long time now and neither of us has an axe to grind. We have only fallen out when I point out to him that he is lazy and selfish. He says DD is a drama queen and loves to tell a good tale. She IS a drama queen but I have never given that any attention, that's for sure We used to be friends but his gf was very opposed to this so for the past 8 or so years it has been business - ish on the whole.

glass - well, she knows now that I have been kicking him up the arse for years as I have told her. Just said ' I have been encouraging him for years to be a little more active with you and now that you're 13, it's difficult for me to continue doing so and you wouldn't want me to do it anyway would you? I think it's time for you to make your own mind up. '

I have been very clear with her though that he is her father and although I back her and understand her feelings, I will not allow her to say anything derogatory about him or his girlfriend as that's not how we are going to do things. I also said she would be sending him a fathers day card as normal and that she was to be open to any efforts made by him. She agreed to that anyway. I see little point in her stooping to his levels and no point in making things any worse.

Sorry to hear your difficulties minnie sounds like a nightmare.

blackcurrants - thank you. We often talk about self esteem and what she should accept in future relationships and what sort of things are non negotiable so she certainly isn't daft.

pies - hmmm - re the change in my life! I'll have her hanging round me every weekend... I shan't be embracing any changes Luckily my parents love having her and she stays with her sister too... so not too much change!

Izzy, thank you and to you (and everyone, especially OP) - apologies. I didn't intend my post to be so long or to attempt to hijack, it was a very long winded way of saying that I empathise with the OP's dilemma because I'm on the same road towards the same destination. I warmed (for want of a better word) to my subject a bit too much and rambled/ranted on much longer than I'd intended.

oldminnie - you were just fine. And give it a few years and your son will be more than able to make his choices and be listened to

Think you've done exactly the right thing, OP, and I hope he does see what a twat he has been and steps up with the odd cinema treat or whatever. Just mind those flying pigs!

I don't think there is a specific age when children are capable of making a really big decision like this about a parent - but she sounds like a very sensible 13 year old who has coped with a fair bit and the best thing about your decision to keep the contact going is that she knows what she is like, and what she will be choosing to avoid. She won't be wondering and building him up in her head.

Ignoring a child is just twatty behaviour, IMO, and he doesn't deserve her time. Having said that, though, if he does step up and ring her with an invite out to tea or whatever, i would very strongly encourage her to go and keep the relationship going, just on terms that she finds more acceptable.

mummytime - no need for her to talk to anyone at school. She'd think I'd gone mad if i suggested it plus it gives the whole thing an importance that is really not required.

Unfortunately for me she never stops talking. Until I tell her to

Some schools have counsellors, my kids school does (not a teacher) and its a great person to chat to without seeming to take sides. Like the normal MN recommendation of counselling.

Mylunch

It sounds as if both of you are handling this very well. I totally agree with not allowing your daughter to call them names etc it will maintain a level of respect and also show that your daughter hasn't stooped to his level.

Personally I'm not sure about the Father's day card. If it were me I'd leave it up to her; if she chose to send one it'll show her maturity and if she chose not to send one maybe it would resonate with her father?

Wishing you both the best :)

You reap what you sow.

You spend years being disinterested in your kid, you can hardly be surprised when the kid eventually returns the favour.

I think you need to step back out of their relationship now and let her decide how much she can be bothered with him.

If ypur daughter does not see him will he withdraw maintenence?

annie - no, not at all. He really isn't a bastard or anything - just rather selfish and lazy unless given a bloody good prod. He is tight as fuck when it comes to money [ always 'skint' when it comes to me requesting a payment towards her £500 school trip abroad ] yet has just returned for a 3 week holiday in the Caribbean.... Always very 'shirty' when asked for an increase in maintenance [ twice in 12 years and still I know he is paying under what he should ] BUT he does pay, without fail, so I have to balance it all out.

He won't 'do' anything. Nothing malicious and no threats - after all, that would take effort wouldn't it?

I felt a bit down last night thinking about all of this tbh

Not surprised you felt down. It's horrible when the other parent of your fabulous, lovely child is so bloody useless. And exhausting always being the only one who actually takes any responsibility.

He's an arse.

(Not very constructive, I know. )

Ha- thanks. And the really GREAT thing is... I have two of these twats to deal with My children have different fathers - the other one is a whole different ball game!

However, we crack on don't we?

In this case it does sound as if your daughter is being sensible and doesn't want to continue to go every week. Would every two weeks or once a month be an option. If not I wouldn't make her go if she doesn't want to. Sounds like she's put up with a lot from him and his partner. Doesn't sound very fair to me the way she is being treated.

Just wanted to add, at 13, firstly bravo to your DD who sounds great but bless her having such a dull time and still continuing to go...she seems miles more mature than her DF.

Secondly, again at 13, her social life will be starting to expand more so that giving up every other weekend to do something she really doesn;t want to do will soon become a real hindrance to her when there are shops to be visited, movies to see and sleepovers to stay awake til 4am sleep at. I think the time has come where she should be able to have more of a say in whose house she spends her weekends at, irrespective of the crappy time she seems to be having at her DFs.

Much as I cannot stand the 'sounding off' to step-kids about the ex (their parent), I actually think your EPs OH did a good thing in ringing you back up to explain the 'Wanker' situation. She, at least, seems bothered a little about your DD. Is there any way you could have a conversation with her? As she has kids of her own too, she may well understand the need for a teenager to have more freedom of choice and activity at the weekends?

I'd ler her choose.
If he calls her up and wants to see her, then encourage her to go as best you can. Otherwise I'd leave it.
Sounds like you're a fantastic parent to her.

Exactly. Cracking on is all you can do. I try (though don't always succeed) not to get really cross every time ex falls short of the mark, yet again, because if I did I'd just be constantly furious, and to no avail.

Your daughter sounds lovely and he sounds like a lazy selfish git. It won't be her missing out, it'll be him. Boo hoo for him when he realises it in years to come. Though if he's anything like my son's father it's always someone else's fault anyway, of course. (He can probably find some paranoid, mental argument for holding me responsible for the global banking crisis and civil unrest in Syria (if he's been off Call of Duty long enough to hear about them). Luckily I stopped caring/listening years ago.)

It's crap that he's not a better father but great that she recognises she's worth more than his paltry efforts at parenting. And that's thanks to you.

She only goes to him every other weekend as it is, not a weekly thing.

Yes, when his g/f rang me I said that I appreciated her calling. As to forgiving her... umm, no. I'm not bitter or angry but this woman called me a wanker for no good reason. And for that reason, bar a polite 'hello', I won't be talking to her any more than I have to.

I always think it's strange that some women (especially mothers) see their partners being crap fathers to their children with someone else and it doesn't make them sick.

Does she treat your DD the same as she treats her own children? Or does she look after her own and expect him to look after your DD?

(I meant it seems especially strange if mothers allow it, not that mothers are more likely to do it, to clarify.)

well, her own children are 19 and 18 I think so all by the by now. Her daughter had a baby at 15 and was always ' a handful' .... I parent very differently to how she has/does- although I really couldn't give a toss how she parents really.

She is 'fine' with my DD- although has called me names before, said derogatory things about me and then the 'fucking wanker' comment last week. So I m not overly impressed really!