I'm so unhappy in my marriage but would like another baby

[ChaosCentral]

Have namechanged and bit of a long one-sorry.

Together 20 years. Married 14 years. One DS through choice.

Lots of ups and downs in our relationship. A couple of times in the past (before we were married), I said I wanted time apart as I wasn't happy but DH talked me round. As I've grown older and also since being at home with DS and not working, I've realised what a tosser DH is. I think he is EA, he also turns twists things and tells me it's me who over-reacting. I'm not a walkover and don't let him get away with it but I'm so tired of reacting to him and of the bickering.

We argue and bicker over everything-parenting/me working again/housework/choosing things for the house/finances/what to eat/when to eat-it drives me fucking mental. Everday day is a battle. DS is being affected by it. If we argue over directions in the car for instance, we will start getting upset or will start shouting. He loses his temper and shouts a lot. There's much more bickering than laughter. I worry that DS will grow up and behave like his dad towards women. We argue a lot over how to parent DS and how to deal with him. DH says "DS is driving a wedge between us". I say "It's the way you react to DS that is driving a wedge between us".

I've begun to realise that I don't love DH anymore. I don't want to have sex with him (even though he is always pestering me) and I don't enjoy being with him. He truly drains me and saps my energy. I care for him but feel nothing for him. I can't even bear him to touch me tbh.

I've felt miserable for quite a while now but have also realised that I really want another baby. DH does not and says I am too old (43-he's probably right).

I just feel so trapped-I have to stay with DH if we do have another baby but he makes me so bloody miserable. It goes round and round in my head every day. I imagine myself living on my own with DS and it terrifies me. I literally have no friends who are divorced. I have no income and I wouldn't have another child. I'm just rambling now...

Even if you do have sex get pregnant this does not mean you have to stay with him. You do have a choice here .

How come you are not working, given your financial difficulties?

Think about 5, 10 years time. You need to face up to some hard decisions now to be happy then

Wow.

I'm sorry OP I can see how minimising the extent of your son's mistreatment is...actually I can't see that at all, 'he doesn't thump him' so? Where's the line? Hitting but not hard enough to break a bone or cause your son to lose his hearing is ok but hitting harder than that is not ok? Your DS being goaded with pokes and being hit around the head, not cuff let's at least be honest about the terminology, is for what purpose? To make your son miserable, frustrated, lash out so he can be really hit? Or is it to keep him in his place? Poking is not a discipline. Nor is a 'cuffing'. Your son is 8 years old.

I agree with Izzy I think you need to evaluate.

I have a lot of sympathy with your OP but I could not allow a need for another child and fear of the future to dictate the level of harm I let my son be subjected to.

You have options that allow you to have another child without staying with this man. But I do think counselling would be the way forward with this.
I don't think you will find it easy to turn the problem around to others by questioning if they know the fear of separating after 20years - they do, many of them, many more have separated sooner but it will always be hard. Even the spouses in the most amicable of divorces don't skip away with nary a scratch. It has to be weighed up...with what you've written the scales for me tip firmly in the leave for your child camp.
I also agree with SGB - do you get knocked? Barged into accidentally, little things, bit rough in bed, bit rough taking things, throws rather than passes things or is it EA alone? You are at a point where you argue with him about making your son bleed (a 'light' by normal standards brush with a metal clip won't cause bleeding there was more than acceptable force there) but not actually stopping him getting enjoyment from watching you squirm while he purposely does something he knows your 8 year old child hates. You need to get to a place where you can recognise how wrong that is. He isn't showing you or his child any respect at all and far from avoiding things that make you unhappy is deliberately doing them to prove he is right and you wont stop him. Not good.

HoleyGhost, we don't have financial difficulties. I am just not working at the moment. I want to start working again but DH is not that supportive. He wouldn't mind me getting a job as long as "I could keep on top of things at home". This is one of the things that causes arguments between us. I've told him I'm not prepared to stay at home for the next twenty years to load and unload the dishwasher/washing machine etc. I know I need to work, for my own sanity if nothing else. I am in the process of sorting out my CV.

NicNocJnr, the treatment of our son is an issue here, I'm not denying that. DS loves and adores his dad and they spend a lot of time together. I wouldn't agree that he is being physically abused. He has never been thumped or hit hard. DH is one of those men that tease children which I see as abuse and cuffs, yes, "cuffs" him lightly, NOT hits. I always step in when he cuffs him as I've said, I don't agree with it. A light smack on the bottom(when it is warranted-with a warning beforehand) is ALL I would condone but this actually rarely happens. Maybe once every six months from me. Maybe once every three months from DH. I'm not perfect but I'm a good mum and I spend a lot of time talking things through with DS and explaining things, use of "time out" etc.

The issue is that DH doesn't agree with how I want us to parent and just ignores me. He can't be bothered to talk about it or read any parenting books, go on courses (as I've suggested). I've told him he will have problems with DS when he's older but nothing works. The parenting thing is just one of the problems contributing to the deterioration in our marriage. I don't have any respect for him and I don't think I want to be with him.

I am seeing a counsellor and she has said that is a "controlling" man. I suppose if I was a weaker character then we could rub along but I don't take any shit. The downside is that this has drained me emotionally. I just feel like I can't battle anymore. I just want to be with someone who is easy and have an easygoing relationship with lots of laughter. Something that is sadly missing in our relationship.

DH's positives are:-

He gets along with everyone in a social situation;
He has worked hard to give us a beautiful home and we are financially secure;
He is very complimentary about me and still tells me he loves me etc. (I can't bring myself to say it back, the words just won't come out)

...That's all I can think of really and it's not a lot is it?

Abusers are often very plausible and charming to those in the outside world, it is only behind closed doors that their true nature emerges.

You're caught up with an abusive marraige - fgs do not bring another child into this.

I would put it to you as well that your long term relationship with your son is in serious jeopardy. This is because when he is an adult he will likely despise you for putting his abusive dad before him for his entire childhood. Put you and your son first.

You have a choice re your H - your poor 8 year old son in this dysfunctional abusive mess that his parents are creating around him does not. You're complicit in this too and will be so long as you remain within this abusive marriage.

Your DS would love his dad anyway, children love their parents no matter how abusive or rubbish they are. They always want and seek their approval.

Your son is learning many many damaging lessons about relationships from the two of you, lessons that he could well carry over into his own adult relationships if you do not leave your H now.

Were you yourself hit as a child?.

What do you get out of this relationship now?.

Just for the record, hitting so as to leave a mark is an offence (no offence if no mark). So, if that was photographed, it would be considered illegal, and I also know hitting on the head is considered worse than a smack on the bottom from the perspective of ss.

It's not all about that, but it is symptomatic of an unhappy household in which there is lots of arguing and not much love going around, lots of conflict and not much laughter.

I think your desire to have a child is just a natural response to the impending menopause and lots of people have it, but realistically, you don't even like your husband so it would be a crazy thing to do.

I don't get your argument you don't know other divorced people really, you could cope with one 8 year old on your own, and who cares if other people are happy or not, it is yours and his happiness that you need to concern yourself with, I bet there will be a good few divorces over the next few years anyway with the divorce rate at 50%!

keep talking to your counsellor

"He wouldn't mind me getting a job as long as "I could keep on top of things at home" - read this again and see what it means - he just wants you at home as a "wife" nothng more - no identity for yourself.

your son is 8. you dont need to be at home all day cleaning the house.

in five years time where will you be?

ladyintheradiator, I would describe a "cuff" as a gentle swipe with an open palm. Not a slap, hit or punch. Certainly nothing that would cause pain. But, repeating myself, I DO NOT agree with DH doing this around DS's head.

No, DH does not "cuff" or hit me. He has got angry and talked to me through gritted teeth or called me names. I have challenged him and said that he is being abusive and I do not want him to do it. I have to say, I am not entirely without blame-on another occasion, when he smacked DS on the bottom without any warning, I lost it and smacked DH really hard on his arm. He complained that I had hurt him. I said "how do you like being hit without any warning?". He doesn't see it as the same thing. He's said before "I wouldn't hit an adult" so I've said "So, as a 40something adult, you would hit (ie smack) an 8 year old?" He doesn't get it.

I am really at all the talk of abuse. Are you seriously telling me that the rest of the country NEVER "lightly" smacks their children. I don't agree with smacking if it's because the parent is angry ONLY as an addition to disciplining but as I've said, I VERY rarely do it (perhaps once or twice a year if that). In fact, I can't remember the last time I did it and probably now he's older, I won't anymore. I find Magic 123/Time Out/Losing treats a more effective method.

Attila, I don't agree my son will despise me. I'm the one who talks to him, knows his emotions and why he behaves in certain ways. I think that he and DH may have a difficult relationship though. He said to me the other day "sometimes I don't like daddy" so I can see it happening already. I told DH what he had said. I've warned him he is starting to damage their relationship.

I've also told DH "I don't want DS to talk to women the way you talk to me. It's not normal behaviour". That is a big fear.

What does more damage though? A broken family or staying with a slightly EA father? I don't know? Taking DS away from everything he knows and his dad who he loves. I don't want my DH to be a "weekend dad" but I want him to change. It's the only hope for our marriage.

I wasn't responding to the remark about a light smack, I've certainly smacked my two on a handful occasions when toddlers (not since they were able to reason, so about 4 really). I was responding to you saying that your household has lots of conflict in it and not much laughter, and that your husband swiping your son over the head and coming down hard on him is creating this unhappy atmosphere. It's not all about whether you thump/swipe your child, it's about whether you are creating a happy childhood for them, the picture you paint doesn't sound very nice which is why having another child seems quite a bizarre conclusion, except I think that is probably very much driven by hormones.

I think there are a number of issues here - the first is your longing for another baby, I do relate to that but it could be more about your need to feel useful and needed. Being a SAHM with just the household tasks to do can feel like a worthless and relentless job so doing something for you (job or studying) will be critical for you. It could make you feel happier and that could contribute to a more positive life for everyone. I am in a similar position and I feel utterly miserable without some outside interests.

secondly, the parenting of DS, I can't agree with any form of physical punishment on a child - your dh has to understand that and it has to stop. In a few years ds could be taller than you and if he hits back then you have a downward spiral. Getting your DH to understand this is important but I guess you have to demonstrate leadership first and agree never to smack ds.

Lastly - why does your DH have to agree to you working, have you implicitly agreed that housework is your sole domain? What happening when he retires, do you still have sole responsibility? I think this has to be resolved as it is a tenable..does working outside the home mean he has a "get out of household tasks" free card?

I'm glad you are seeing a counsellor, I think our 40's can be a time when you need to take stock of life and work out what is working and not.

Mumsy and startlife I'm relieved the conversation has moved on from my DS "being abused". FWIW, I'm going to tell DH that from now on, there is to be no more cuffing or smacking. If there is, it will be one of the issues I will be bringing up at the marriage counselling I am now going to arrange.

Yes, there is a lot of conflict and I think it's affecting DS's behaviour. He is quick to anger and shout. I asked him the other day why he was shouting at me and he said "well, you shout" :(

We do lots of nice things as a family, have days out, lovely holidays but there is always bickering. In the car, over directions, when we get there usually about what we are going to do first, what time we will eat. It's rare we have a day without bickering. There isn't a lot of laughter as DH isn't a jokey person. I am though and love a good laugh over something but when I'm with him, we are too busy bickering. He was away recently for nearly a month and I didn't miss him apart from the last two days when I suppose I felt a bit lonely. I used it as an opportunity to see how I would feel if I was a single parent. I liked it but of course, it was only short time. Being on my own for a year, two years or maybe forever is something that scares the living crap out of me.

The baby thing has always been there, we've gone round and round in circles for years. I've posted on this before. I worry that when DS grows up, he'll have his own life and I'll be divorced and I'll be on my own for the rest of my days. I always thought that if I had a daughter, she's be there for me and I've always wanted a girl for that mother-daughter relationship. I feel as well, that we are only "half a family" with just one child. I don't want to offend anyone with one child, I know that not true, it's just how I feel-incomplete. I just wish I could turn back the clock. I feel I've messed up. One of the issues was that the stresses a baby can bring didn't exactly help our relationship. DS was a handful and we argued a lot about how to deal with things.

DH doesn't have to agree to me working, we would talk it through together and see if it would work. He justs like things being in control at home but I'm so over it and I feel a bit weird having an 8 year old and still not working!

Well deliberate goading by poking and ''cuffing'' round the head are abuse yep.

And just throwing it out there I loved my dad too - he raped and abused me my whole life. Love is not a reliable guide in relationships like this and yes it is more harmful to stay than go. No I never hit or otherwise use physicality on my children - just don't do it. Because you don't hit. I don't want to get lost in quibbling the point about an open handed swipe to the head as not being hitting so whatever you feel it is - that, that's not ok. Hitting with objects- not ok. And agre with Attila - don't underestimate age, reflection and the phrase 'wasn't I important enough to you?' or 'why didn't you stop it?' there's a fair few varients. Not now but later on if he stays.

But you have said you're tired, emotionally drained by every day being a confrontation- this is where you need to focus because he can keep this up, he's not tired. You said you don't take any shit but that's not what's coming through from your posts. You need support. I hope your counsellor can help you get some of your emotional energy back and help you to the decision best for you and your son.

Sorry x-posted as had to take a phonecall while replying and took too long.

Focus on the end bit then.

have a look back on this childhood as your son will remem ber it -
he may think of it and look back as lviing in a broken damaged bickering home

when he goes on deert island discs how will he describe his childhood, growing up, the relationship between his mumand dad? what will eh remember?

greats days out with lots o love and laughter?

no - days in car lots of shouting bickering arguing

Off on a tangent here, but how would you get pregnant if you don't like sex with your husband and he repulses you????
I would guess that you feel emotionally all at sea and don't feel that close to DH or your son therefore want something to "mother" or "love".

(Get a kitten or a puppy ! )

I really don't think that even light phsical chatisement is suitable for an 8 year old. The atmosphere he is living in now is making him angry, in a few years time when the hormones kick in its all going to come out as pure aggression and heaven help you both!

If neither of you can be pleasant to one another what a frightful atmosphere for the 3 of you to live in. No-one can be happy.

Unless you and your DH can commit jointly to changing things I see no point .

By all means try couples counselling, but do not flog a dead horse if you are not both fully committed!

Why don't you want your dp to be a weekend dad? Is it because you're scared what he will do to him if you're not around to stop him?

I'm shocked you have to ask if it's more damaging to have a broken home or to live with an abuser

I'm going to be tough here, because you can see what's wrong but don't want to face it:

1. Your poor son is suffering, no wonder he is acting out. He has a father who 'cuffs' him and treats him poorly and a mother who would rather keep them both in a horrible situation because of her dream of another child who doesn't even exist yet. To be even meaner, it isn't impossible for you to get pg at 43, but it is more unlikely than likely, let's face it. You are making an imaginary child more important than your real, living one if you stay in this relationship. What if you can't have another one? Will it be worth putting Ds through more of this? Even if you do, is it worth it?

2. I think your desire for a 2nd child may well be transference; you actually want things to change for the better and for there to be more love and happiness in your life, which you have decided will be created by another pregnancy and baby. But all that would actually happen in reality is you being even more tied to this awful man whilst subjecting another child to his treatment and another unhappy, damaging childhood.

3. Your posts make it clear that you want DH to change and get better and parenting and put more effort in, in order to make you and DS happier. It ain't going to happen. If DH gave a shit, or was capable of being the nicer husband and father you'd like him to be, he would already be that nice man. You can't change someone else, you can only change yourself. Whilst you argue with him about hurting your child and try to get him to read books, he continues to treat him badly. And what if he magically started being a better father? It wouldn't be like a magic wand that would erase the damage to your son that he has already done. When he grows up and remembers his childhood, he won't care that you tried to argue with his father about hitting him and treating him badly, he will just remember that you stayed and let him be abused. Do you think this will make him view you favourably? In cases like this, people often feel angrier towards the parent that stayed with a bad parent than the bad parent themself.

4. You have got embroiled in this dysfunctional dance between you and DH and are retreating into your baby fantasies and whilst you two go on indulging in all this crap, your son is being damaged and having a crap childhood. I say 'indulging' because it's become what you're putting all your attention into, instead of looking at what needs to be done. This man is treating both of you badly and unacceptably. However, by staying, you are allowing this and are culpable too. You are both, therefore, messing up your son and training him to be a future abuser himself. Break free from trying to change DH and trying to be right and leave. It is not going to get better and you are the only person who can get a good life for you and DS.

Sorry if I sound harsh, but another baby should be so low on the list of your priorities right now that it shouldn't even be on there.

Look, what Nicnoc, CestlaVie & Oxfordbags have so clearly said

Let me just tell you something from your DS point of view.

I grew up in a 'respectable'home where from when I was 8 I was witness to my elder sister receive regular 'cuffs' as you would call it.

Just cuffs you retort?! Well, those cuffs in our house soon turned into regular, unpredictable thumpings with a bamboo stick or fists once my sister hit puberty.

It only stopped when she left home and went to uni - she somehow managed to pass her exams to get there, inspite of the misery at home.

So, in case you think somehow that your homelife now wont possibly affect your DS, 25 yrs down the line, here is my situation:

1. my sister is 37, still single, as she admits that she shuns any relationship for fear of conflict in a domestic setting. she has had tons of therapy and a shit relationship with my parents.

2. I, middle child, in therapy for what I heard and saw, shit relationship with my parents, luckily, found married my childhood sweetheart and have a peaceful home, but I am sad inside everyday because of the flashbacks of my childhood I have had since having my own DCs

3. Younger brother is closet gay, parents dont know, is also shunning domestic life rleationships.

For goodness sake, protect that kid, forget about another - get hormone tablets

YOU are the adult he is looking to for protection, as he is clearly terrified of the bully in your home..

Wish you could see that. Please get info about leaving. Ring Citizens Advice or Womens Aid this afternoon to get advice and a plan in place

wishing you well

Sorry but are you mad? You want to bring anther child in the this bloody mess

Please don't go to marriage counselling. It isn't designed for abusive relationships and can make things worse.

Individual counselling for yourself is fine. But the only therapy your husband should be in is an abuse perpetrator's programme.

Read Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft, and the Freedom Programme materials online.

And please seriously consider leaving your husband, these people are very rarely truly willing to change (despite sometimes claiming it), and he is damaging you, but more importantly, your son. He will grow up thinking that this is a model of a normal relationship, and is likely to emulate it.

You cannot choose to go ahead and have baby with someone who has told you quite categorically that he does not want to have one. That is really all there is to it.

If you are saying that you would consider tricking him into getting you PG then that is always, always, ALWAYS wrong in my book, I don't care how much women think they can justify it - it's just an abhorrent thing to do. Especially if you can't even bear him to touch you - how are you going to pull that one off?

You sound completely miserable and the relationship has obviously run its course. Accept it, leave him, and move on. Forget the baby. It's not meant to be and it would make your life a million times more complicated.

get pregnant and end relationship immediately..seems fine on the face of it as you have invested so many years in this relationship and this is literally your last chance to have another child.

but, your dh doesn't want another child and it would be immoral to force him to pay more child support, to bring another child unwanted by a parent into the world and unfair to your son. he deserves your full love and attention

i'm sorry you're panicking as you're faced with the end of your marriage. there are always what ifs..if you feel in a couple of years time you need to mother more children..consider fostering.