Is there such thing as 'mild' emotional abuse?

[Gaslighted]

Or is he just hard hard, work? Been together for 16 years, I was 19 he was 37 (dogdy) my first serious relationship and have two youngish children. I always thought DP was hard work but the gaps I between the outbursts are becoming smaller and I discovered EA on line - so many of the symptoms match (but not all).
Because I feel like I should have seen this before I had children, I feel like its my bed and I have to lie in it. At least until the children are older.
Sometimes he is lovely, relaxed and fun. Then the rug goes and I am a fat, selfish person who can't be trusted with anything.
I cannot be bulled however, my childhood was good and my parents have a normal relationship so I don't believe anything he says about me- I know it's his issue and I don't want my children to come from a broken home.
What to do? I can't be the only one who will put up with it and not be broken?
So many doubts.
I wonder if he is being like this so that I will leave and he still gets to look like the good guy.
Sorry for rambling, this is my first time and I have no idea where to go with this, its cathartic to get it written down.

Hmm...I wonder if you did not see this before you had the children because he didn't do it then? This was true in my case...the further the relationship is along, ie you have invested more, and it is harder to leave; the more they feel able to abuse. Mine wanted to be out, but did not want to be the bad guy. He had signed up for online dating, but was stalking me online...I think he was hoping he would find something as an excuse for leaving me. He didn't, but just upped the ante until he became a truly foul human being, and I couldn't stand it any longer, and got him to leave. What does he say about his abuse? I don't think this is low level btw. It shows a marked lack of respect IMO.

My experience has been that while I was in it, I accepted it as my 'normal' as it was all I knew, and I certainly couldn't discuss our relationship with anyone. So when I looked at the EA/DA signs I thought maybe, rather than yes, that's it. But the more I detached myself from him, the more clear it was that he was ticking all of the boxes. And now, I've been separated 10mths (but only living apart for 7) I can see it was an incredibly abusive relationship, and had been for years.

As for staying for the children... they were the thing that made me leave. The thought of my girls thinking the way he treats women being normal, and choosing such a man themselves terrified me. I had to show them that was not the case.

Take care, keep thinking and reading and posting on here. It made the most massive difference to me. Do you have a friend or other relative you can confide in? Sometimes when you see the shock on another persons face as you describe your marriage... well, it's sobering.

You were 19 and he was 37? so he was interested in a woman half his age for what reason? More malleable and now you are older you are not a teenager any more and less likely to put up with even "mild" EA.
how old is he now? What did he think was going to happen, you would stay a wonderfully innocent and easily influenced child?
i think you have alot of thinking to do really. How long as this difference been noticable.

MN is the most objective place to discuss and examine the incidents that are worrying you. It is safe and full of wisdom and experience. You can be truthfull in a way here that sometimes in life is harder.

He sounds like a miserable bugger that is trying to manipulate your behaviour with a few bully-boy tactics but failing because you're not the type that is easily manipulated. I don't think the part about beds and lying in them applies in long-term relationships. You only get one shot at life and it's a shame to be saddled with a moron just because you made a bad choice at 19. I know for a fact that children do not benefit from living in a household where mum and dad are either behaving badly or treading on eggshells waiting for the next outburst. It's very damaging. If you left, who honestly would think he was the good guy? He can't be that good an actor.

He always says I am over-reacting and a drama queen if I ever confront him. He quite often denies things he has said (oh, for a record button in life). When I showed him a list of EA symptoms he agreed that he had some of them but 'so does everyone to a certain extent'. The ex wife was a bi(£# (of course). The children have got to an age where they see it and will say 'you are being a baby daddy, not mummy'.
Even as I write this I feel sad:-(
Even I can see why he picked the 19 year old and swept her off her feet. The point is I suppose is it's over 16 years, if this was all in a year I would be out of there.

Tryingtobecoolandtough- I have never really told anyone what he says to me. I am ashamed of picking him.
On a lighter note I recently read 'fifty shades' and spent the whole time thinking 'no, don't do it' -Christian Grey classic EA

I've said this before about the "making your bed and lying in it" thing, but I'm going to say it again, so there.

If you made your bed and there was a nasty lump in the middle of it, or all the covers were askew, you wouldn't really just lie on it like that and think damn, this is uncomfortable, but I have to put up with it. You'd remake the bed, or at a pinch, sleep on the sofa. But in this case, anyway, you made a perfectly decent bed, then someone came and pulled it all out of shape. What's so wrong about remaking it?

Its like they have all read the same book I was 22 to his 36, and a very young 22 as well.

When you feel you want to, or the next time it kicks off, post. You'll be amazed at the responses.

I jokingly said in a post about how we all had to greet him when he got in from work. Literally, we had to drop what we were doing (kids too, tv off, computer or book down) and focus on him completely, the minute he walked through the door. I didn't realise that was insane until the responses were 'WTAF?'

Sorry if I'm doing 'all about me' but your experience sounds so similar unmumsnetty hug

Best advice I was given OP was "detach and watch", even if you think it's not right then it isn't.

Oh yes and just as annie said the comment about "made you bed and you need to lie in it" we can buy brand new one these days OP.

Thanks guys for the support - these men really are ALL the same, what created them? You made me laugh too, new bed!! Haha. I'm never getting a new bed again- from now on its hammocks all the way!
He was horrible yesterday, I'm on crutches from a sports injury and he was ranting about how I am ruining weekends because we can't do what he wants to do (go walking). I know the pattern, he will come home and act like nothing has happened, being surprised that I would be grumpy. So predictable.

I would love to be a fly on the wall and see what other people's relationships were like. Everyone seems to moan and that makes me doubt myself again.
From now on I will take some advice and post what he does, just to get some perspective.

A lot of this is because you are now an adult, not a child, therefore you no longer automatically defer to him. He's a fuckup who can't deal with women as human beings, and he's going to get better, not worse. It's possible that, rather than progressing to physical violence he will start shagging a younger woman and blame you for 'changing/letting yourself go' though it depends on whether he is still good looking/charming enough to pull a younger woman (if he's over 50, balding and tubby with no fashion sense he might start shagging a woman who is vulnerable and desperate instead.)
But don't wait around for him to do that, bin him off. Best of luck.

HI OP, I really agree with "detach and watch" suggestion, it can really open your eyes when you are not engaged energetically to "make things better" all the time. Meanwhile, you can bide your time and have to do anything until you decide to.

I don't think there is any real point in showing him a list of EA symptoms, unless he is suddenly going to have some kind of epiphany and really do the work to change - it doesn't sound like thats what happened anyway? What you see as his real reaction if you said that but not trying to get a particular outcome or response i.e. hoping he will say sorry, but just really "watching", neutrally, to see his reaction.

Maybe try it for a few weeks or months? It will save you alot of energy. And you may see things as they really are and be able to make your own decision.

Also the "detach and watch" thing will stop you reacting. I was told it was me that was abusive because I have always been rather feisty and could easily be blamed for being "mad" or "over reacting" because I was the one that ended up with the wobbly gob, if you see what I mean.

Will be watching this thread with interest, since I have been wondering the same sort of thing for a while. The "ruining weekends" comment sounds similar to things I have heard - oddly, though, I wouldn't have classed that as "horrible", would just have done an internal ... Perhaps my expectations need adjusting.

MissF

"I was told it was me that was abusive because I have always been rather feisty and could easily be blamed for being "mad" or "over reacting" because I was the one that ended up with the wobbly gob"

• that's me too. He is calmness personified but when the glazed look in his eye shows that he really doesn't care what I think or say, I lose it and look like a mad woman. I have not spoken to him for 2 days, not even hello or goodbye if I can help it because I know that I will blow up at him, there is such anger bubbling beneath the surface at the way I've been treated. I've resorted to email as its the only way for me to remain detached.

Even at school time he said "do you want me to collect the kids?" and I got myself in a flap saying "I don't want you to, I'm perfectly happy to do it. Do you want to pick them up as you're their father? If you do then offer, you are not doing me a favour" and I realised that this reading of the situation only makes perfect sense to me - to him its a pile of gibberish!

Yes DoingItforMyself. i was the same... Always blamed myself, went on ad's because surely it must be me having these "uncalled for" reactions. Surely I have PMT, going through the change etc. I look back and he never hardly raised his voice but said bloody wicked things that i would react badly to. Then because i would call him a pig he would tell me I WAS ABUSIVE! I sort of now know mostly that it was him. I almost did a poll or questionnaire to every one in my life at one stage asking them if is was a horrid person!

there is also a sort of shame attached to being abused that is hard to get over. As a woman i always want to smooth over and make things right BUT I have this anger.

Will give you a for instance where I thought it must be me again.

A while back I bought a couple of new loungers for the garden. Put them in my shed. During the day when he was off he used one. I came home and went and sat in the garden with him. I saw the wrapping just dumped by the wall, I asked him why and he said that I should have taken it off before putting it in the shed and he would maybe put it in the bind when he felt like it??????

Wow there was another argument of course. I told him he was inconsiderate and he told me i was making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Sounds familiar. If you do something annoying you are in the wrong, if they do something annoying you are nagging and making a mountain out of a mole hill.

I can never do anything right, the house is a mess, huffing at the pile of washing up etc. Once I have tidied and the kitchen is spotless, he comes in and dumps his lunch stuff, makes a snack leaving crumbs and butter everywhere and when I point it out he says "well its usually such a mess, whats the point in me trying to keep it tidy?" erm respect?!

Well at the end of the day OP and DoingIt there are other things that are obviously wrong far bigger and dare I say it what the OP put in her title, slow secretive sort of abusive behaviour that make us wonder why we get cross about crumbs or loungers. Its very very subtle.

They put the bullets in the gun and we end up firing them.

Then we wonder about our terrible behavour and so the cycle continues

I had a hysterectomy, mostly because I was continually told I was mad, and it must be my hormones. Then he made me cry with his nastiness every for two weeks immediately after and that was when I started to think it might not be me. Bit late.

*every day. Sorry.