does it matter WHY he is too busy to see the kids?

[bejeezusWC]

Stbxh left about a month ago, we were seperate for about 1.5 years before he left the house. He was EA and an alcoholic, together for 12 years. 2 dcs @ 7 yo and 18 mo.

He never did spend enough time with them when we were together/ he lived hete. Always too busy 'studying' but staying out over night, and clearly had enough time for drinking and socializing. His default position was with his mates

He has been good about seeing the kids since he left. Hasn't had them over night yet as he is in a bedsit looking for somewhere suitable and affordable. So visits have been for couple of hours at a time and usually involves me cooking for everyone. Trying to make it ad painless as possible for kids so its ok. He is taking them to school couple of mornings a week. Has let them down once so far- didn't show up or phone

He hasn't seem them since last Sunday. U phoned him yesterday to ask if he is seeing them today. He said he is too busy studying for exams and organising his befsit. So he will come at 5pm for an hour. Ok.

But he didn't disconnect his call......and I listened for half hour. He was with a girl, getting ready to go out, choosing outfit. Then went on a car journey, sounded as if they went to her place. Really comfortable conversation between them. Not a NEW romance. I always suspected he wasn't faithful. Lots of evidence, but nothing damning.

So, I phoned him back and said he couldn't come at 5pm for 1 hour

Am so mad, kids are not his priority

Am I being petty and jealous? How to handle this?

No you're not being petty or jealous, you're understandably hurt for yourself and on behalf of your children. BUT having said that, if I were you, I would now wait for at least a couple of days to process my feelings and get them out of the way before having a discussion with him about formalising the contact arrangements.

If he has other commitments/priorities then now is probably the time to start formalising things for the long haul. EG, one day every weekend for X hours, or EOW plus one night in the week or one school run every wednesday... etc. Whatever works between you all, for the benefit of the kids. In the long run you need to be able to plan, the kids need to know where they stand, and he needs to pin down when he will be doing his parenting.

I wouldn't want to have that conversation with my STBXH while I was furious, disappointed and upset though. Hence I'd be on here ranting and crying it out for 48 hours or so, gathering my wits and then sitting down for a sensible chat (with my suggestions all worked out in advance, so that they work for the kids first and foremost). :) your feelings are valid, but they won't be to him. So feel free to vent as much as needs be until you're in a place where you can talk just about the kids with him.

Thankyou choco

I don't know why I'm so upset. I don't want him back

I just want him to put his kids first. Instead if ANYTHING and EVERYTHING else.

I was happy to be accimodating and flexible about arrangements. But NOT if he can manage to find time to see some woman. If he can do that, then he can damn sure sort out time for kids

But, will it just be the kids that suffer for it? Now they won't see him today. 1 hour??? Just before bed?? He's a fucking idiot

Di feel gutted, that he is managing a rationship with someone se though

Good advice about calming down before I speak to him. He is not reasonable though. I doubt VERY much that he will commit to set times of contact. Because he might 'be busy' !

I know no-one is listening, but Im going to have a little rant anyway. Otherwise I am likely to lamp an innocent bystander (for looking at me the wrong way or something)

I was very cool when he came to take dd1 to school this morning-mostly because I am still really angry and I couldnt trust myself to speak/ couldnt be arsed to put on a nice face/ just too frigging tired...because I do 99.99999999% of child care and I was ill yesterday.....

i was upstairs, I heard him asking dd1 if she had money for her breakfast club. She came to ask me---i said, I expect daddy could give her some coins for breakfast (he doesnt pay maintenance). he barked that he only had £2. I said that would be plenty. He dropped the money on the floor whilst getting it out of his wallet (by accident, I presume) then barked at dd1 to pick it up. Jesus Christ!!! Why moan and resent giving your 7yo dd £2 for breakfast; then the equivalent of chucking it at her feet, so she had to scrabbe around on the floor for it!!! I lost it (inside) a bit, and told her not to bother getting down on the floor for the money, that I would find her some coins, if dad wanted to keep his money Grrrrrrr.....

So, he launched into me, about how I always give him a 'shit face' when he comes round to see the kids and treat him like 'a slave'!!!!! WTF?! rant rant rant

So anyway...now he has refused to take dd1 to school anymore!!!!

why didnt I keep my petty mouth shut about the money?
why is he such a cunt?

poor dds

I think you can put visits on hold for a while on the strength of that little performance. It's not good for your children to be playing second-fiddle to whatever else is going on in his life but, then again, it never was. But to behave like that in your home, shouting, swearing, and throwing money at children .... sorry, but that is a line crossed and I think you should tell him that he can resume contact only when he gets his new place.

really cogit???

see...i have been chastising myself for going off on (in a very small way-i didnt rant or shout or swear) one about the money. He didnt throw it at her on purpose-i fully believe he dropped the money by accident. But I would have got down and picked it up and apologised to dd if that had been me...not instructed her to pick it up off the floor

so, you concede that he is being really unreasonable. I get so angry and confused when things like this happen. But it reminds me why I am divorcing him; so I dont have to endure it day in day out and pretend like everything is ok

do you think its unfair on the kids to suspend access though? they love him

If he's an alcoholic, he probably feels pretty shit in the mornings (well, all the time but particularly in the morning). I'm not excusing his behaviour but this may account for why he went off on one this morning.

You need to disengage, and that will be spectacularly difficult to do whilst he's still coming inside your house. Refusing to take dd1 to school is an act of utter pettiness but one that will at least save you from having to invite him in - I hope ever.

It's very, very important dd1 doesn't feel it's her fault her dad is no longer taking her to school. Not sure how you best achieve it but largely I think the sooner you get this wanker out of your daily life, the better.

tribot he hadnt been drinking yesterday-i can tell when he has. He can go months without a drink

I get the feeling he was acting up because he knows I heard him with the 'other women'. When I phoned to tell him 1 hour at 5pm yesterday wasnt ok-he asked me stupid questions in a really defensive/aggressive manner-hard to explain-but i know him and I know he realised that he hadnt cut the call, and i had heard him

Put it this way. If a random stranger had come into your home, dropping/throwing money on the floor, being horrible to your children and calling you names like 'shit face', ranting and arguing ... would you think that was reasonable or acceptable? Or would you be telling them to leave and not come back? The trouble with living with someone that behaves badly all the time is that you start to think it's normal. It really isn't.

OMG, I would fing kill anyone that even spoke to my children like that, even their dad (who I'm happily married to)! That is disgusting behavior, poor little thing, good for you not actually lamping the cun!

I'd just go down the official route with this waste of space, get a solicitor to send him a letter stating day(s) and times. He is a prick, if he was my ex prick I'd have fed it to him years ago grrrrr......

Well, it looks like the nice cooperative version of him, where you cook him meals and let him turn up when he likes (for one hour, how pathetic) is out the window. You need to get formal arrangements in place for him to see your children, and for him to pick them up at the door.

The cooperative version only existed as it made life easy for him, but there's no reason to be spoken to like that in your own home. Hope you are able to work something out, but he sounds quite nasty.

Grrrrr.shelley its good for me, to see other people reacting with anger

cogit it is so true about it 'becoming normal' I keep rationalising it-thinking he is their dad-some times parents snap at their children (i do!) but he hasnt seen her for a week!! I am only snapping when i have had them up to here

he really could be nicer for the 30 minutes or so that he is seeing her twice a week huh?

the other thing i do-is I think 'its just his manner', 'he doesnt mean any nastiness' by it...but she sees other people not behaving like that doesnt she...he surely doesnt talk to other people (besides us) like that

Days of not drinking as as hard the morning after, if not harder, for an alcoholic bejeezus. And going for months between drinks is the pattern of the 'dry drunk'. I wouldn't be certain you can tell when he's been drinking. But in any case, he had absolutely no right to behave as he did - I was highlighting that it probably had nothing to do with your comment about the 2 quid.

Maybe you should talk to Alanon? If just to get some more information on why he is acting as he does, and that it is not acceptible .
Don't let him in your house, arrange proper contact times, and keep a record of what happens (does he turn up, does he try to rearrange, how is he, is he late and so on).

Anyone could be pleasant and civil for 30 minutes. Anyone at all. Your children's father should be delighted to be with them. Over-compensating for his absence if anything. Not treating the whole thing as something to be endured, a bit of an inconvenience or acting like a moron. My DS's Dad sees him every couple of weeks at our place (we all get on well) and my biggest 'complaint' is that he tends to spoil him.

I'm glad you're seeing him for what he is. It may just be his manner but it isn't a pleasant one.

thanks -yes I think 'dry drunk' describes him really well

I have been to a few Al-Anon meetings. They were a turning point for me--i would love to get back to some meetings-nut just cant maange the time/chilcare. I work and have 2 children-1 is 18 months old

There was a really good on-line forum-i will look that out again-that saw me through some very dark times. I thought I didnt ned it any more. I dont want him and his problems to define me for ever more

Agreed. He's being a total prick resenting giving two pounds to his own daughter!!!!!! And sulking and taking it out on her by not taking her to school...

Don't cook for him ever again. If he can't even be a loving father for an hour, maybe your DCs are better off not seeing him.
I would start keeping tabs on all those tantrums of his by the way.

Poor you

what shall i say to her? about him not taking her anymore?

how can i make that ok?

Just that he is unable to do it anymore as he has work/study commitments, I don't think that you need to really go into it much, you could always mention too that because he is so busy it may be that he can only see her on the same day each week. But there again this maybe left for later (ponders), what does everyone else think?

Understand why you don't want to be defined by his problem forever, bejeezus. But he's only been gone a month, even if emotionally you separated long before. The removal of the natural constraints of family life are almost certainly going to make his drinking worse, unless he's fully committed to his recovery (which I don't think he is). And unfortunately you do still have to have a relationship with him for the sake of your children. So I would look at it more like support for the victim of a crime. You've moved on, you're rebuilding your life, but the crime still happened - nothing changes the past and confronting it, acknowledging it, is the best way to move forward.

I think you tell her the truth which is that he doesn't want to take her any more because he's annoyed with you and behaving unreasonably. Whatever you say, make it clear that it's not her fault he's annoyed. I don't think children should be shielded at all costs and it's not bad-mouthing or disloyal. to tell the truth.

cogito thats kindof the point I am at...she needs to know the truth i think, so she is not confused by it...its not fair. But if she is lead to believe he is a 'great daddy'-just a 'bit busy' or whatever, then she is bound to think things are her fault isnt she.

Shes a good kid

And she heard the arguement this morning (well she was stood in the middle of it-so hard not too) she heard him say, hes not taking her anymore...so I will be having a conversation with her about it after school.

He is supposed to have them next Friday night (in my house), because I am going away-maybe they should go to my parents instead

I still feel like I want to facilitate him seeing them as much as I can...because they want to see him. But he neess to be facilitating it doesnt he?

Children want all kinds of things and we have to stand as gate-keeper on what things we allow them to experience or be exposed to. Worse than thinking it's all her fault would be to allow her to believe he is a fantastic man and the reason he doesn't see her is all your fault. A friend raised her two DDs alone and never really told them the truth about their absent dad because she thought it wasn't fair. So they assumed she'd 'driven him away', gave her a rough time for years, and it was only when they reached their late teens that they realised what an arse he was.

I think you should send a very clear message that this is your house now and in this house all people will treat each other with respect. As such he will not be in it next Friday. If he has a suitable alternative to facilitate contact: fine, if not they will go to their grandparents.

And you're quite right, that if she thinks she's heard an excuse, she's more likely to blame herself. I would give him the opportunity to calm down and confirm that he truly is going to be a petty fucker and refuse to take her to school any more, as the last thing she needs is to be told one thing and then another. But if he sticks to his guns, I would tell her that dad is angry with you and doesn't want to see you - maybe?

I understand exactly why you want to facilitate things. I did too for my DS because it broke my heart for his daddy not to bother due to things like having no car, or the weather being bad. I drove him around and collected him from places, packed lunches etc - right up until my STBXH clearly showed me how far he was willing to trample all over my boundaries. It was like a slap in the face. I may want my DS to have a good relationship with H, but that's irrelevant unless H is the one putting in the effort.

Since we formalised things with regular dates/times life is easier for all of us. It's not about whether it's convenient for the adults really, although it will be much better for you to know when you can expect a break, it's about the children knowing where they stand.

One tip though - if you agree a set weekly/bi-weekly or whatever date for him to see your DD's, make it out of your home (even if he takes them for tea in the local supermarket after school once a week) and make sure that you have a plan B. By which I mean, if he is 20minutes late or 30minutes late (whatever cut off point you choose) there is something else planned for your DD's. Just in the short term, until you know you can rely on him. It saves you from having to cancel your own plans at the last minute and the heartbreak of watching your DC wait at the window/school gate for daddy when he's a no-show. I pretty much know that my STBXH will show up now so I can make reasonable plans for his contact days, but I still give myself an hour each way to allow for him being late/returning early. It's not fair but I'd rather I was always on hand to be happy and excited to see DS whether his dad is or not.

we've already had 1 experience of waiting at the window--I didnt realise that expression was meant literally

It breaks my heart just writing this thread
I dont feel like I can actually do this...I feel so paralyzed with the guilt of giving my lovely dds, this fuckwit of a man for a dad

How do you formalize arrangements? I can see he will be completely unco-operative if I request any formalisation--in fact he has basically said he nees to play it by ear because he is 'busy'...and I have said I will accomodate that. I am so scared that if I am less accomodating, he will use me 'trying to control him' and 'treating him like a slave' as reason to not see dds...and it will be all my fault