I find asking for help really HARD....

[inthedumps]

Sorry this may be long.

6 months ago we moved out of London because we had had our first child and could no longer live in a 1 bedroom flat and couldn't afford anywhere else locally. This was also around the time of the London bombings and my DH just wanted to leave ASAP. We decided to move to Oxford, close enough to London to maintain friendships but far away enough to have quality of life...

Since we moved it has gone completely tits up and I have ended feeling really awful and filled with absolute utter dispair. I have had to cope with a very active toddler, on my own, with no friends, no family, trying to work 3 days a week in a stressful job, and a DH with his own issues. Even our once very happy marriage is now going wrong.

My parents went on and on about how if we moved to be near them then they would always be on hand to help, I wouldn't have to pay for childcare (my mum has a big issues about paying for childcare - and working mothers too, come to think of it...). So conceding defeat, we have decided to move back home and try and start a new life (again). We have no jobs, nothing, we are just upping and leaving here, mainly because i have been feeling so awful.

Now it comes to it, and the move is imminent (next week) my parents have back tracked on all of their so-called promises and will not offer help eith DS, or much else really. My mum has backed out of helping with childcare for when I find work as she 'may have other things on and don't want to tie up my time'. She won't even care for him while i try and help my DH with the move. As the thread title says, I find asking for help really HARD, yet whenever I do pluck up the courage to ask my parents, they only very GRUDGINGLY agree, which I think is worse than just saying no. It just makes me feel bad and guilty and it is just easier to crack on and do it myself.

I feel completely abandonned and unsupported. Since we left London I have given everything up for supposed 'quality of life' yet I have ended up with no friends, no job, a dysfuntional relationship and have had to give up all of the things which I enjoy. I am really now at the end of my tether and I don't know how to get out of this hole. I just want to go away (by myself) and hide for a long time. If I hear my mum say 'motherhood is so hard' one more time, I will bloody scream.

sorry to hear that your parents seem to have shafted you by going back on their promises. could either you and/or DH go back to your Oxford jobs and plan your next move more carefully and leisurely? It does take time to settle anywhere, IMHO 6 months is too soon to expect to be settled in, especially when you are busy with children, so don't have oodles of spare time to pursue a social life/own interests etc.

why do you feel it has gone tits up?

Sorry to hear that things are so hard at the moment. As MTS says you seem to have made the last move very quickly and now you are moving very quickly again. Do you not feel that whatever problems exist at the moment - no friends, active toddler etc - will not just follow you to a new location? Especially now that your parents have reneged on the childcare issue? Do you HAVE to move now? Is it possible that even at this late stage you can cancel and at least one of you remain in your existing jobs? You haven't really said why everything has gone "tits up" - have you not managed to stay in touch with friends as planned? Re having no friends in Oxford, have you joined and M&T groups, NCT, swimming - which will help with keeping your toddler active, you sane, and maybe make some friends.

We have already given up our jobs and flat so there really is no going back. My DH thinks this will be the 'new start' we need, but i agree with you when you say that a lot of the issues will just follow us. We have tried to stay in contact with old friends from London, but most of them are childless, so don't get that we have to plan things, they always do everything spontaneously so we miss out. My antenatal friends can't really face travelling to London on their precious days off (which I completely understand). We do still see people, but rarely so it has to be all happy and smiles as I know I won't see them again for months, so I'd hate to ruin it by feeling miserable and moaning the whole time.

I should have made more effort with the toddler groups, etc, but when you're feeling down, it is really hard making a big effort. I know thats no excuse but its how I feel.

I feel it has gone 'tits up' because i have lost myself somewhere in between having my DS, leaving London and feeling miserable for 6 months. This is not me. I am normally happy, confident, chatty and enthusiastic about EVERYTHING. Yet I couldn't say I'm any of those things any more and I don't know how I will ever get back to being that person.

is there anyway you could move back to London area? How was social life with the childless friends once you had your baby? Just wondering whether it is just the move from London that has made things difficult socially, or whether it was inevitable once you had a child that you would fall off the social radar to a certain extent. I do sympathise - it can be terribly awkward socially being the first of your friends to have a baby, then the ante-natal class/postnatal friendships can be a bit false and shallow, as you are often mainly brought together purely because of having children around the same age. I think the only way to make new friends is just try out lots of groups, evening classes or book group or something for yourself and by yourself, and MN (or other site meets) - the more people you come into contact with, the more chance you have of finding a kindred spirit.

I can empathise with a lot of what you say. I too have moved around a lot and now find it hard to put down roots anywhere. I too have parents who won't be tied to anything but their own pleasures and who tell me regualrly that motherhood is hard, whilst not offering to do anything to help. I chose to give up working when I had my first child but now bitterly regret I did not keep something going as I feel trapped and unable to return to work.

I don't know enough about your situation, but as an outisder, the way I see it, is that you should make your relationship with your dh your priority. Wherever you end up living, whatever you end up doing for a work and childcare, your dh is your stability and the 2 of you are your child's centre of their universe.

Is there anything you can do to cement your relationship together?

Sorry, so clumsily expressed: I have 4 children shouting around me. You and your dh are the centre of your ds's universe.

That's better.

Things were great in London as all my friends turned into clucky aunties, begging to babysit and help out. Our house was the social centre of our 'gang' as people would just drop by for coffee and end up staying all day etc.

I would have really liked to have thrown myself into groups etc here, but felt guilty trying to do stuff on my own, especially as DH seemed to just wanted us to stay at home being a 'family'. So over time the momentum was lost. I think once I realised I was feeling really miserable it was too late to try and sort the mess out. I just wanted to get out of here... which is what we're doing. But I just have a feeling it'll all happen again and I just want to get out of this hole.

me and DH are going to go to Relate when we move as we do definitely have issues to sort out which is damaging our relationship. He is used to me being the leader in our relationship, making the decisions and the effort with friends etc. Now I feel this way, I really need him to take control and he literally doesn't know how. Thats why I feel unsupported because i feel there is literally no one here ot help me out and gee me up a bit. I have lost my role.

In the dumps,

I am an expat wife and have moved countries five times in the past nine years, to places where I don't speak the language and don't know a soul. My parents are thousands of miles away. I know exactly how you feel. I moved to London a year ago, again with no friends/family here. You need to give yourself some time to mourn your loss and wallow in self-pity, then try to move on. i know its hard to make an effort with toddler group. i move every two years and am so sick of making new friends everytime. But I try as hard as I can, because I don't want to drown in self-pity any longer than I have to. Give yourself time to whine a bit! It will get easier.
I will try to be back tomorrow with more tips; kids screaming at the mo.

inthedumps,
I can relate to how you feel,it's not just the move, but also how your life has changed since you've become a mother.
When my DS twins were younger I remember turning to DH and saying,"I feel like someones come along and stolen my life from me."It did take me a long time to adjust, even though I didn't give up work(I dropped to doing 3 days).My life was just nothing like it was before.I too had parents who offered no help, despite promises made before my DS's where born and I too felt abandoned.In fact it was such an issue to me I think it contributed to my PND and I brought it up when I had councelling. So,it might be of help to you to bring these feelings up when you and DH go to relate.
Sorry I can't offer much advise, but give things time.As your child gets a bit older you'll start getting your life back.
Mine are now 7yo and so easy I can hardly believe it.

Thanks for all the replies. This is really the first time i have really said anywhere and to anyone how I really feel. I am so used to being the strong one, organising everything, that I think everyone (including my DH and parents) think that I just manage and get on with my life fairly ok. I feel like it would be shattering their illusions of me to tell the truth, that i'm really struggling. Especially to my parents. I really don't know how to say, 'I really need your help right now.' I wish they could just see that I'm really having a hard time and offer help from the kindness of their hearts, rather than making me practically beg for it.

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agree completely with Pruni about Oxford (I was a student there). It seemed to have very little to offer for families, so much there seemed based around student and cultural life.

dont know if this has been mentioned but why not visit gp
you may be suffering a bit from depression as you have had to deal with different things too quickly iykwim re housemoves etc

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Bloody hell, poor you, I'd be stressed in your situation too, anyone would be. Blimey, you're MOVING your whole life based on some promises from your mother and now she's reneging on them? NO wonder you're pissed off! Right, how old is your child? You need a playgroup at the very least, a nursery/au pair/mothers help if you can. What are your finances like? Could you do that? If not, you need to meet some local mums and consider swaps a way down the line so you get a break. Will you be able to find jobs? What could you do for childcare if your mum won't help at all, or will that negate the move/job? Sorry, will read the rest of your thread now and see if you've answered these questions! I do sympathise.

OK, have read rest but have to go in a sec. When I had ds (now 8yo) I felt I lost myself too, new parenthood can do that to you. Childless friends maybe clucky but they won't understand what you're going through, really, howwver hard they try. It sounds to me as if this isn't just about where you are physically, it's about new parenthood and shock and not having any support, it's normal imo to feel this way given your circs. Will come back to this later/tomorrow, poor you, I do feel for you.

I don't know if there is such a thing, but I feel as if I have got post-natal depression 18 months on! When my DS was a baby, we had such fun as there was so much to do in London - from baby swimming classes, to picnicking in front of the London Eye, to kite-flying on Blackheath and lots of places to go and see. Nothing had to even cost anything really. I have such amazing memories of being a new mum. I do agree that Oxford is not child friendly. It is all about the students, and you're right about the pushchair access - most shops I just think, I won't bother as i can't get upstairs etc.

I did go to the GP about 4 months ago and started crying (went about my DS not sleeping). The GP just looked at me like I was a mad woman and he really did not know what to say and soon packed me on my way with some advice about sleeping routines - I think he missed the point completely. I am a nurse and one of the other GP's in the practice is a colleague in a different setting so I have been wary about going back as I wouldn't want him to know any of the details as I appear very together at work. Although this isn't an issue now I guess as I have left. I have started to take St John's Wort anyway.

I really want to confront my parents about their lack of help and support, but I just don't know how to deal with it. We had a bit of a run-in just before we left London as they hadn't showed any interest in me / us or made any effort since DS was born, always expecting us to visit them, travelling 4 hours with a baby, messing up his routine, etc. They were so upset about it all and hadn't realised that I was cross with them. They have made some effort but the basics haven't changed. Am I asking too much? Maybe I am just expecting too much of them.

Perhaps your focusing too much on the non existant help from your parents.Their attitude sounds very simular to that of my parents.
I'm an only child, my DS's are my parents only grandchildren and stll they have better things to do than spend time with them.
I really think it's quite negative to dwell on, why they are like they are, it could begin to make you quite ill.
I tried for years to get any help out of my parents and in the end just had to face the fact they were not interested enough. Just think, well it's their loss, stuff them,and just get on with doing things the best way you can,between you and your DH.Perhaps, things will pick up for you when you move back to London, you seem to have had a good time with your child there before.
Keep taking the St Johns Wort, it sometimes takes a while to start working, but it does work according to my DH.

Hi inthedumps. I am not at all in such a hard position as you are, what with moving to a new place with no friends/family etc, but I am relating so much to things you are saying. I am a single mum and I hate asking for help too, and it's something that even a mum with a partner HAS to do.

I absolutely agree that becoming a mother means a HUGE loss (and I think we probably feel it more keenly if we are the only one of our group of friends with children, as I am too, because you become isolated & feel much more alone.) I think we possibly feel it as keenly as a bereavement - we are completely losing a life that we will never get back again. I can't get my head around the fact that in order to do anything for myself, I have to rely on someone else. V to read about your parents' attitude to your ds. My parents have done a huge amount for me and are absolutely besotted with dd, but I still often feel uneasy asking them for help. They lead such busy lives themselves, they never actually offer (nor do any of my friends) and when I ask, "I was wondering..." my mum initially says "Yers..." in a sort of "here we go again" way which makes me feel utterly crp. And it is even harder when you're feeling really sht and REALLY need help - I remember once I was getting desperate for some self time (to sleep!) which is when i feel most guilty about asking for help for some reason, and I finally plucked up the courage to ring my mum, but I wound up inviting myself & dd round instead of asking for babysitting, because of that tone in her voice! i got off the phone in tears.
My mum is also one to frequently say : "Well, that's motherhood!" grrr. As if we need telling.

But, I have to say, she's sort of right, that is the way it is and if we're gonna survive, we somehow have to get to the final stage which is acceptance. I've got to the place i think where i can grit my teeth and just ask, and just focus on each day at a time, fully enter into what I'm doing with dd at any given time, etc, but i do now and again take a nose dive and just despair of the whole thing and sometimes i think it would be easier if i just moved myself & dd & lived by the sea just the 2 of us and not rely on anyone, ever! If I had no choice, perhaps it would be easier!

In terms of practical advice for you, I would say (and I need to take this advice for myself too!) - you say you have had to give up all the things you enjoy. Try making a clear list of what all those things were, and then write down practical ways in which you could resurrect them. I don't know what sort of things you are talking about, I am assuming you mean more practical things here, not vague things like "freedom" etc!

We're moving to Devon to be near both of our families (although closest to mine).

I know I have to let it go about my parents, but i have never asked anything of them and never needed their help before. I moved out at 17 (my choice) and got a job and put myself through college, uni and even bought my own place and everything in London. i have always been very independent and proud that I did this. My brothers stayed at home FOREVER and blagged free rent etc, even going to uni in the home town so they could live at home and blag off my folks. Even when I was 16, I worked and paid them a small rent! In the end I thought, bugger this, I'll pay a bit more and have my own place!

Now I feel like I finally need their help and support, but its not available.

Hi again inthedumps. Are you sure about moving? I lived in London and then moved to Devon and after 3 years moved back to a city. I was going to post something like 'oh, I felt very like you do, cried a lot, mourned my old life, etc and it's a perfectly normal reaction to new parenthood and then I remembered that I WAS depressed after having ds! I went to my GP who suggested St Johns Wort, which I took, and eventually I got better. But I have read somewhere that some pnd is a perfectly understandable reaction to new parenthood and I can go with that. I think it was hard, for me, to accept that it wasn't just me any more, that someone else relied on me totally. It's hard even to get time to think sometimes isn't it?

Can you just hold fire on moving for a little bit, say a couple of weeks? Because it might create more problems than it'll solve. Tbh, one of the, not sure I'd call it a symptom, but anyway, one of the things I kept saying about a year after my ds was born was "I HAVE to get out of London, I just have to" and I didn't realise it then but it wasn't really London, I was just blaming that, it was my new life/parenthood/my marriage at the time (we're amicably divorced now!) and I was looking for something to blame so London was it.

Anyway, I think IF the main reason for moving was because your parents offered to help then pause, don't do it yet, really. If there were other things then maybe you should still go. My experience of Devon is that it can be very small town and lonely and isolating and I wonder if it might not be the best place for you right now.

I also know what it's like to be disappointed by your parents and to want them to do more than they do: when I had ds my mum went and adopted a baby of her own so was no help whatsoever as she was in the same boat as me. But you can't change parents into what you want them to be, I'm trying to accept that now.

Can your partner have your child while you just take a day out to think and decide what's important to you?

Another thing, if you're knackered it affects everything IMO, you just can't think straight and it's very easy to get everything out of proportion and to find life tough, because it is without sleep. They use sleep deprivation as torture don't forget! So I think you need to sort out the sleeping before you even begin to think about tackling other issues - you will feel a lot better about everything if you get some decent sleep.

You also need some mum friends. I struggled on with my ds for 18 months with NO mum friends and it's only when I look back that I see how isolated and lonely I was really. The days seemed to go on for ever. (he's 8 now! And there was no mumsnet then, more's the pity) Are any of your childless friends capable of looking after your baby for a few hours while you sleep? I know they won't get it fully, but you say some of them were nice and clucky and kind to you, so ask them to help you, they might be more willing to help than your parents.

It's hard getting used to being a parent I think, well, I certainly found it so anyway and you do need to meet some people who know what it's like I think. When I finally got around to going to a playgroup with ds it was wonderful to finally meet some nice people with children.

Anyway, you're not alone, you've found mumsnet and lots of us sympathise and hope we can help.