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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Is this wrong

35 replies

changer111 · 07/06/2012 22:29

Sorry I've name changed for this.
Brief history: I left very absuive ex a year ago. Currently going through court re contact.
Amongst other things I was also concerned about him inappropriately touching DS who's 3.
Anyway he was very vocal in court about sleeping with his 13 year old other son and that it is basically his right to do that. Btw he sleeps naked.

Just some persepctive needed really. Is this a normal thing, for a father to sleep naked with a 13 year old?
Thankyou

OP posts:
Kaluki · 07/06/2012 22:34

No no no no no!!!!!
As the mother of a nearly 13 year old son I find this just absolutely wrong in every way.

claudedebussy · 07/06/2012 22:35

no, not normal at all.

WhereMyMilk · 07/06/2012 22:37

Absolutely not!

We're not that bashful and DC often wander in when am in shower etc so they do see us naked-but sleeping with them like that-no.

izzyizin · 07/06/2012 22:38

In Western society it is not considered normal for a father to sleep naked with his 13 yr old ds.

In fact, some may form the opinion that a father who chooses to act in this manner is a pervert in need of professional help to set appropriate boundaries for himself.

Original poster
changer111 · 07/06/2012 22:49

Thanks everyone. I've spoken to two friends about it and they think the same... just wanted more perspective I guess as its hard to see things clearly when you're in the middle x

OP posts:
MushroomSoup · 07/06/2012 23:18

So, so wrong on so, so many levels.
What was the reaction in the court?

bouncyagain · 07/06/2012 23:27

A male perspective! I normally sleep naked, but when my DS is with me, I sleep in boxer shorts. OP - it def sounds pervy.

bogeyface · 07/06/2012 23:35

If he didnt mention that he sleeps naked, I hope your solicitor did!

Original poster
changer111 · 07/06/2012 23:41

Nothing was said in court about it, no reaction :(. But ex was also coming out with some pretty awful other stuff as well and wasn't challenged about alot of that either. He was representing himself so I'm hoping this is because the judge didn't want to sway his behaviour which was pretty bad tbh.

However the judge wouldn't make a decision on contact and has adjourned making a decision twice now which apparently is very rare. My solicitor thinks that the judge is really troubled by it all so I'm hoping that all the stuff he was coming out with will be taken into account despite the seemingly non event impression the judge was giving during the fact find hearing.
It so hard to know with family courts and they just don't seem to get abusive men.

Thanks so much for your replies

OP posts:
Original poster
changer111 · 07/06/2012 23:46

bogeyface I mentioned that he sleeps naked in my pre hearing statement as he told DS numerous times during supervised contact (supported contact) that he and other son and DS would all be sleeping together. So it is out there. But the barrister didn't mention it on the day...wish he had, but ex was so entitled about it and I don't think barrister expected him to say that or half the other stuff he came out with and so had no prepared answer...

OP posts:
bogeyface · 07/06/2012 23:57

I wonder if the judge has reserved judgement because your hearing has opened up a whole can of worms about your ex's other DC and the judge is taking advice on how to proceed, or is informing SS (dont know how these things work, sorry!)

Either way, it sounds like he has dug himself a hole and is wallpapering it whilst he is down there. His mouth is working for you, so I think they are all letting him get on with it to see what else he admits to.

I am sure it will be fine xx

solidgoldbrass · 08/06/2012 00:05

I think bogeyface may be right, and there are some legal complications to be sorted out as this man is clearly barking mad and not safe to have unsupervised contact with DC but they have to work out how to proceed in order to protect both your DS and the man's older child from him.

shouldigetout · 08/06/2012 00:23

Nothing to add here other than support as this must be so horribly stressful for you. Hang in there.

Original poster
changer111 · 08/06/2012 08:19

Thankyou Bogey and SGB.. Hope you are right.
The judge kept telling him to stop talking as he was damaging his case or that he was making my barristers points for him.

OP posts:
solidgoldbrass · 08/06/2012 08:21

Hold that thought OP: he is wrecking his own case and probably talking himself into a prison sentence for child abuse. At least you aren't having to contend with the sort of abuser who does stuff like that in private and claims in court that you are making it all up out of spite.

PurplePidjin · 08/06/2012 08:27

dp wears boxers if 4yo dnephew is even in the same house (comes to stay sometimes) and dnephew has never seen the inside of our bedroom!!

Ex housemates son used to stay alternate weekends, housemate slept on the sofa once his ds reached 10 - and wore clothes in bed before that!

Let ex talk himself into trouble and out of your life, less work for you and your solicitor!:o

Imnotaslimjim · 08/06/2012 08:30

That is wrong on so many levels, and very very weird!!

My dad is a naturist and is naked a lot and my DC are completely unconcerned, but even he would wear something in bed if he was sharing!

I'd just leave him to it though, he seems to be twining his own rope to hang himself!

Original poster
changer111 · 08/06/2012 08:35

I know.. I was expecting him to put a real 'act' on in court and was really shocked by just how much he was coming out with in front of the judge. Either just so entitled or stupid or both

He also repeatedly said that he would rather never see DS again if he had to do any supervised contact as he was a man and wasn't gonna prove nothing'

OP posts:
KirstyWirsty · 08/06/2012 08:37

I sleep naked .. my DD7 climbs into bed with me of a weekend morning .. I've never thought anything of it??

JumpingThroughHoops · 08/06/2012 09:18

There comes a time when nudity around children is inappropriate. The child will set those boundaries when they become body conscious.

Original poster
changer111 · 08/06/2012 09:49

Thanks for all the different perspectives, its really appreciated.

I guess his attititde in court was very much that he could do what he wanted. The children were possesions if that makes sense and his rights trumped anything that they did or didn't want. Also my question was bourne from his touching DS in what I considered an inappropriate way when he was really young so that combined with him insisting its his right to sleep with his 13 year old other child just adds to my concern if that makes sense. I'm fairly sure that the 13 year old will be made to feel bad/stupid for not wanting to sleep naked with his dad as that is what ex does. He also used to insist of wiping the other child's bum when he was 9 which again I found Confused

The whole is or isn't it seems a really grey area but what I am sure of is that he will emotionally and physically (hitting) abuse DS in any way he can and that was quite obvious in court, well to me, just hope the judge saw that too. The judge did make the point though that ex found it impossible to put DS's needs before his own..

He also told DS during supported contact that DS's name wasn't his name and when asked in court about this he said that he would call DS what he liked whether DS liked it or not. He also was telling people at the contact center that the other son's mother was dead (she isn't and the son lives with her) and saw nothing wrong with this... Confused..
Oh and he said to the judge that if he wanted to kill me he would have done it as he would have been able to get away with it as we lived in the middle of nowhere and it would have been 'easy'.

I dunno, I feel like I'm in a nightmare and I wonder what he actually has to do before it is a cut and dried case..

OP posts:
worldgonecrazy · 08/06/2012 10:02

We cosleep with DD (2.5) sometimes. When we do we wear clothes, when she isn't in with us, we sleep naked. We don't have a problem with nudity around her, though she is of that age where she is fascinated by other people's "pee pees", it just doesn't feel appropriate to sleep naked with her now.

It was different when she was very young and we were breastfeeding. Top-half nudity just made things easier.

At 13 your ex's other son is probably in the throes of puberty, i.e. becoming a sexually aware and active young man. It is definitely not normal for him to be sleeping naked with another male family member. Even if it is completely innocent it puts the young man at risk of bullying, should his school mates ever find out.

Keep letting him dig that hole - hopefully you will get his man completely out of your life very soon.

MushroomSoup · 08/06/2012 10:03

If I were you I wouldn't be worrying. The judge is going to see right through all of his self justified crap.

bogeyface · 08/06/2012 10:17

Ever heard the phrase "Your mouth is working for the prosecution"? This is your ex.

He sounds unhinged and you should be v v grateful that he decided to represent himself. His arrogance and stupidity will be his undoing and karma has seen fit to make sure that not only is your DS being protected but his big brother too.

Thinking of you.

Keep us updated x

Lizzabadger · 08/06/2012 10:21

He is hanging himself. Sit back and let him. Stupid as well as abusive.

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