men and anger

[Iforgotmyusername]

My oh has definite anger problems - he hasn't hit me but has come close. Lots of losing of temper and verbal abuse though. It just strikes me how many other threads contain the same - ie talk about men who have anger problems. I wondered if I was imagining it or if other women also find that many men appear to find it very hard to control rage.

I used to be married to one!

I see it loads on mn,but I also see posters who say 'they need anger management',like its the answer!

Some men, not all men. And some women too.

My DP is the same and tbh, i am starting to question whether i can live with this as i am getting older.

Also i just think that i don't need this stress in my life, especially now my children (not his) are of an age where they are nearly fully independant.

The ironic thing is that if i was a client of mine i would be advising them to give an ultimatium, in regards to their oh changing.

They don't have an anger management problem if they aren't like it with other people. If its just with their partners then I'd say it was more about control :(

I used to be married to a person who took pride in having a scary temper, apparently his family took pains not to upset him in case he got angry....

Personally I would never ever put up with someone with a 'temper' ever again.

My only advice for anyone living with someone with a violent angry temper is leave, at some point you will become the target.

My ex had a temper and came close to hit me a few times. Until he did hit me.

Raising a fist to me right now would make me leave.

These men CAN control rage. Only, they choose not to when they know they would be punished.

My ex managed not to hit me in front of the police station, just hurtle abuse in a low voice, and seemed very meek in the divorce hearing. Just outside he had been threatening me and my dad with death.

It's not anger management they need.

If he only has problems holding his temper when he is with you and is fine in other scenarios e.g. work then its about power and control. As men are physically stronger, an angry man is more powerful....and women withdraw from provoking it.
Then as the woman's needs havent been met or her voice heard, she uses other methods to get what she needs (silences, sarcasm, passive agression) and thus the dance continues......

I dont agree thats its only men who have anger problems; its that the manifestation of that anger is more likely to be physical violence, verbal aggression and attempts to dominate. And angry men dont go for women who stand up to them.

Its the triangle of power. We all need some power in our lives- either you get it from your own actions or you get it over other people. That applies to men and women equally.

Bear in mind that this site is primarily used by heterosexual women, so there's some observation bias in effect. In my personal life, I haven't found that men are any more likely to lose their temper than women.

I think you need to keep in mind that this is a web forum where the vast majority of posters are women. Hence I think it's easy to get a unbalanced view of male / female behaviours.

40% of DV cases are female on male but obviously that isn't reflected on the MN boards.

Saying that 'many men find it hard to control rage' is really a bit off imo. It doesn't surprise me though.

I am not sure what your point is, OP

do some men have a problem with anger ?

yes

should you have a relationship with such a man ?

no

should you expose your children to the damaging lessons that a female appeasing an angry male would give them ?

no

does it also sometimes happen when the genders are switched ?

yes

Is this thread a diversionary tactic to take your mind off the fact that your h an abusive twat and you need to pull the rug from under him, OP?

Or are you seeking to normalise his abnormal behaviour?

It really doesn't matter whether men and/or women are able to control their rage.

What matters is that no-one should feel constrained to live with an individual who doesn't show their respect and consideration for others in a meaningful manner.

I simply asked a question. I was curious. Sometimes just posting here makes me feel got at. There seems to be an assumption here that everyone knows lots of other couples well enough to know what goes on within their relationships and that therefore simple questions are treated almost aggressively.

OP, are you living in a difficult situation ?

you will get a lot of support and understanding if you are

however, if you prefer to post ambiguous OP's and then get a bit stabby when people ask why, this may not end up being your best move

AnyFucker, I'm not sure why you find the OP so offensive? Maybe you should devise some kind of Relationship Thread Charter that posters can refer to when starting a thread! Or maybe people are allowed to write what the fuck they like on a public forum and you can either choose to read it and show some imagination or even compassion in your response or you could just not bother responding!

'this may not be your best move' ??? Seriously, you sound like you're threatening her.

Oh and how is she getting 'stabby', i think you should look closer to home!!

Goldenbear, yes it's a public forum

quite

Actually, men are more generally permitted to express anger than women are. A man expressing anger is quite often percieved as strong, righteous, powerful, someone to be respected, whereas a woman expressing anger gets called a hysterical bitch.

OP, does your partner become angry and aggressive with other people, or just with you? If it's the latter, then it's not anger management he needs, it's to be dumped, because he's perfectly in control of his anger, he just feels entitled to unleash it on you, because he considers you somewhere between a child and a pet who has to be punished and put in your place.

However, there are some men who are abusive and aggressive to other people as well as to their partners; funnily enough these are the ones who are more likely to be 'curable' ie to be able to learn not to assault their partners. Because the man with poor impulse control, who is always in trouble for fighting, can't keep a job because he loses his temper and attacks colleagues or management... this is the man who can be taught strategies to control his feelings and to find solutions to disagreement that don't involve throwing things and hitting people. Whereas the man who only abuses his female partner is in perfect control of himself, he just considers his partner his possession and therefore mistreats her because it makes him feel good to do so.

AnyFucker, I have read the same words from the OP as you. She had posted this in the Relationships section, your words are belittling and show a real lack of compassion- public forum or no public forum!

Goldenbear, I must have missed your sterling and irreproachable advice to the OP

is it typed in invisible ink ?

AF, she wasn't asking for advise, she seems to be asking for affirmation on her feelings about this- not knowing the personal stuff of other peoples' relationships.

'advice' not 'advise'

Have you read all of the same words, Goldenbear?

I believe that the OP's apparent snippiness is more properly directed at me for expressing my curiousity as to why she has posed this particular question hot on the heels of her other thread about the parlous state of her relationship with her controlling and abusive partner: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1489299-can-you-save-a-marriage-on-your-own

Although it may not be considered by some to be 'good form' to provide such a link, I make no apology for doing so on this occasion and trust that it will become apparent my concern is that the OP may be seeking reassurance that her partner's inability to control his anger is in some way to be considered acceptable or par for the course for the male of the species.

It seems to me that the OP is being controlled by her not very 'd' partner while her youngest dc is emulating his example and that this state of affairs is very far from being within normal parameters.

give her what you think she needs then, GB and stop haranguing other posters

it's about as helpful to Op as you appear to think I am

that would make you look a bit hypocritical though, so feel free to carry on

The OP might have been better placed in Feminism rather than Relationships if you're wanting to discuss theory, but no matter.

My theory is that boys/men are often socialised that anger is the only acceptable emotion, hence any other feelings, frustration, upset, often come out as an outward display of anger - anger is seen as "manly" and aggression is seen as normal. If you look at toys and programmes marketed at boys, it's all guns, fighting, superheroes defeating the bad guys, fast/aggressive driving, generally proving you're "more man" by using your superior strength or intellect to "win" and this idea that if you are defeated that not only makes you weak, it means you're less manly.

Conversely, girls and women are socialised not to show anger as it's seen as unladylike (however old-fashioned we may think the term) and tends to be written off as cattiness/bitchiness, it's more acceptable for women and girls to show other emotions (such as crying in public) than to be angry. So your feelings of frustration, anger, etc are more likely to come out as tears than an actual expression of your feelings. Again, if you look at products and TV shows marketed at girls they are all about passiveness, looking pretty, waiting for a man to come and rescue you, being best friends forever, caring for things (babies, smaller children, animals)

Added to this, much of society is set up to be misogynist, women are often presented/thought of as men's "property" in various subtle ways and/or objectified generally. Sex is thought of as something women hold the key to and men have to "get". So we fall back on the conditioning from society/our childhoods, men use their superior manly strength and intellect to get what they want (as this is the way they are taught to get things) and get aggressive when things don't go their way. Women find that they slip into the passive role, try to avoid confrontation and tap into their "naturally caring side" in order to try and "tame" the man into being a good husband, and all the pieces fit, you end up in an abuse situation.

Of course this is massively oversimplified and men and women aren't quite so one dimensional, but these patterns of socialisation are present in society and they do support an abusive model of relationships, which is why violence is gendered (even though it can happen the other way around) and also why it is so common.

If you are in a relationship with an angry man, you are in danger. That isn't oversimplified - it will be true sooner or later.

Ah - izzyizin you make a very good point about it seeming acceptable, I don't know if this was clear in my post but I wanted to say I don't think it is in any way acceptable, inevitable or any of those things.

There are men who have absorbed the "angry" conditioning and men who haven't. I was meaning just to make a point that the men = angry, women = passive conditioning fit together perfectly to support abusive relationships, the only way to break this cycle is to find a man who doesn't have the angry conditioning. It's not something you can undo, persuade someone out of or fix. Because it's so supported in society as well it is extremely difficult and unlikely that a man like this will seek change for himself, or if he does, to follow it through to completion.