Ds asking why xh left......

[davidtennantsmistress]

Ds1 is 6 and going thru the whole 'love and family' things at school. His dad walked out when he was 18 months old, so he's nev really known a life with xh. Anyhow, he's been getting upset lately & asking why I've changed my name to maiden name, why I don't kiss xh's picture and he keeps asking me to, even though I have a dp, and am happy with, plus ds2.

Anyhow over the w.e ds1 asked why his dad left, I did miss a thing there to say ds left me not you, but at the time I was shocked he asked and had just had a ruck with dp. Anyhow I said he'd need to ask is dad... He did and got a reply of 'cos I did', the truth is he was a manipulative abusive bully who had been having an affair with a trainee of his, however this I refuse I tell ds. Ds keeps being told by myself, my parents and family that he's loved and we all love him and that daddy loves him just mummy and dady don't love each other anymore.

Poor ds also got upset as he doesn't see his dad everyday, to which xh said you do every other weekend and ds said no I don't, I'm just so sad for ds and not sure how to help, I could strangle xh sometimes but to be quie frank he's the least of my concerns.

Will it get asker for ds?

It'll get easier as long as you keep telling him the age-appropriate truth and make DS see that he isn't missing out. I don't personally think it's wrong to explain that his father wasn't very nice to you. If you gloss over that aspect and are too even-handed/charitable he will imagine an idealised dad and be very suspicious about you. Logic goes.... 'Dad is a perfect man. Mum doesn't love him . Therefore something must be wrong about Mum'. Find ways also that he can get more adult male role-models in his life for example by enrolling him at things like sports clubs or beaver scouts. With some well-behaved adult males in his life, he will eventually compare his dad to them and be better able to spot the flaws.

I don't know, I'm going through the same with my ds. I have given him answers, real ones and made it clear that they are my side of the story and his dad can tell him his side, then he can make up his mind, explained why I think it might be hard to get answers from daddy when he gave his crappy reply and generally explained to him that this is a long process and he will feel bad about it but that we will work through his feelings a bit at a time. He hasn't had a breakdown for a couple of weeks but when he does it is ok and we'll talk it out.

Thanks, he does do beavers lthough thats all women lol my dad is a v strong influence, always had plenty of time with him, and dad sort of took him in as his own iykwim, dp is also very hands on and strong role model with him, ds for his part does or is starting to idolise xh, which is frustrating for both dp and I as we do everything and xh does quite literally nothing. Perhaps by trying to protect ds from the truth it's backfiring?

Offered, ours seems to be every few months but getting worse each time, do I tell him his daddy wasn't kind and pushed me about? I'm struggling that he should know this, ESP as things with xh are very volatile ATM, however not sure why I protect xh as currently he can't bring himself to be civil to either myself or dp, whom he ignores completely.

I haven't protected ds from my version of events and he still says "I love daddy so much, he is my world, if I didn't have him I would kill myself". He only sees his dad for 1 1/2 hours a week, I think he doesn't really know his dad isn't like my DH and his dad (my dad isn't really significant).

That's the trouble he ds thinks he's missing out I think, but in truth he's not, as dp does far more with and for him. It's jut so hrd, I thought I'd rised him secure and settled but so far he's not seeming to be happy at all, and is really testing us with behaviour.

I've told DD (4.9) that her daddy isn't with us because he fell in love with someone else and lives with her now. I've made it clear that this is not about her and that he still loves her very much. He would also support this (which maybe helps) perspective. I leave out all the lies, tears and anger - at least when I speak to her.

Honestly, she seems completely ok with this and it's also true. Could you do something similar? Or do you feel your DS is less likely to feel comfortable with this kind of explanation?

Mine asked why we couldnt all live together I said because I don't love daddy and I don't want to live with him and he feels the same. He then asked if I liked daddy and I said no but that is how I feel about him and it is because he did some very mean things to me which made me feel very sad and it has nothing to do with your relationship with him. I love you and I know you love your dad a lot and I will support you with that because I love you. He asked why we didn't live together anymore I explained that daddy had started to love someone else and used to disappear for days and when he came home one day we had an argument and daddy pushed me down on the floor and grabbed him and took him away and I called the police and they told daddy to leave and he went to live with Jo.

My ds is secure, I see him as understandably upset and I think it is normal. I think he deserves proper answers and he seems better when he gets them but I'm not expecting him to never be upset. I think it is ongoing and it is good that he feels he can talk about it.

Thanks off, that's really helped, how old is our ds? Maybe ds needs to know more than he has credit for.

He just turned 7 two weeks ago, he ramped up his answer seeking around age 6. He has been very upset this year. He has a few friends with NRP fathers and reconstituted families which also helps. I'm worried about xp, who is an abuser and has BPD and think he is being emotionally abusive to ds and dd (it is all he knows how to do) but all I can do is help support ds to deal with it. It is heartbreaking but I have been through it and out the otherside and I know he can too.

Dd hasn't come to it yet, is about to turn 6 in sept but is a very different and closed emotionally child so am talking her through what I talk about with ds and hoping.

My Ex was abusive. I told my son (6.5) that there are nice ways of treating people and there are horrible ways of treating people.

I told him that his dad loves him very much, but that he didn't know how to love me, and thought that he had to control what I did, and that when I was happy he was sad. That he did things to make me sad and that I couldn't live like that anymore.

It's VITAL that we tell our sons that behaviour such as this results in fracture of the family. We need to show them that it's not acceptable to abuse their partners.

I've always been straight with my son, i didn't ever want him to think that he was missing something, that I had driven this man away from him. I was blamed by Ex for everything, when in fact the opposite was true, I was damned if I was going to allow the most feckless lazy and shit dad ever take ANY credit for anything. I'm not vindictive, this is the absolute truth. I've never had any help from his dad, and even when there was any involvement the Ex only did it to wind me up, like hyping DS up at bedtime.

Only just now we were talking about how I'd chosen not to attend a do on sunday afternoon as it was childfree and I didn't feel comfortable going to something without DS on this BH weekend. Somehow this Jubilee weekend feels all about family and friends not family OR friends.

If his dad were in the country, if he were a normal person then perhaps I'd have thought it OK for the pair to have Daddy/Son time, but knowing Ex, he'd have done bugger all anyway, just babysat . It's important not to re-write characters with a more kindly view. It's vital to remember the facts.

God it's so similar, ds has turned 6 this feb just gone, a few of his friends are in the same boat, but yes xh is slowly starting the same tricks with ds as he did with me, ds either returns conditioned to be quiet and sit in a corner, or so hyped up from the feeding of sweets and not going out even to the park that we can't do anything with him. Guess some tough months and conversations need to happen. Hopefully ds won't get too upset, but likewise in a way he must to come out the other end?

Dp is good on that front more than me, on teaching ds about partnerships etc when ds asks why he's doing the cooking and cleaning, anyhow, better run as have a boy to cuddle, thank you all for your help, these were conversations I think I'd hoped wouldn't happen but have.

Offred, if you think he is being abusive to your DC, you need to act. You are the only chance these kids have. I know that is shit, but we have to try to protect them.

What is it that makes you think that he IS being abusive to them? Is there anything concrete that has been said, or is this a suspicion based on your experiences with him?

There is an organisation called The Hampton Trust, they run Turnaround projects for DC from abusive relationships. Usually starts at 8yo, but it may be sooner than this. They will go where there they can to help children.

I have also explained all along about daddy having a sickness in his brain and ds has wanted to know more about it I have explained a lot about bpd. Explained to him that it isn't healthy to feel so desperate about loving his dad and wanting to please him and that sometimes people who love us don't always show their love in the right way and this can hurt us. That his dad lives him, I know he does because he has had plenty of opportunities where it would have been much easier for him to run off ad where the sickness in his brain would have made it hard for him to not run off but he has stick around and tried hard to be the best dad he can be but it is very hard for him and that ds needs to think hard about some of the feelings he is having about daddy like "I would kill myself if I didn't have him" I've asked him about this he says it is not that he wants to kill himself but it is that he is trying to express the magnitude of his feelings, I think and have said to him we need to get to the bottom of why he feels so strongly and we are currently exploring that. I think it is because daddy always tests people's love and wants them to perform ever more to prove they love him.

That is useful thank you. He has bpd and can't be normal. We have restricted contact down to 1 1/2 hours. Stopping contact would make it worse. Xp is not going to stop having bpd so ds needs to learn to deal with it.

DTM, we are here for you, keep talking if you need to. Sounds like you have a fabulous ally there in DP!

I have said to DS that if someone treats you with no respect, it's OK not to like them. You don't have to put up with someone being mean.

We had a few incidents in school where he'd get upset if someone didn't put X,Y or Z back or do what the rules stated needed to be done. On the other hand, he had issues with some really vile children being really mean to him, and he didn't do anything, said nothing, just took it, until he could take no more.

Living as he did in an abusive dynamic for his first 3.5 years was enough for him to learn that RULES must be kept, but it's OK to be bullied. (oh how I cried when I realised that)

I'm working REALLY hard with DS to show him that he needs to stand up for himself, that it's NEVER ok for someone to be mean, that he doesn't have to keep taking it. To tell the teacher, to tell me, and to tell the child to keep away from him. I've told him that the TEACHER can decide if little Johnny has broken the rules, and that he doesn't need to police them. It's about gently undoing the mental conditioning that he lived under for the first years of his life.

And some say kids are too young to know what abuse is. That's clearly WRONG.

DS and I went out with my new friend and his DS over the weekend. It was so lovely to see a father and son so at ease, a dad so calm, so loving and happy to just hang with his boy. I have a lot to learn about what a real man is like with DC. I'm bewildered tbh!

this 'normal' life is amazing isn't it? It's so much EASIER than a life under abuse!

I agree with Hissy and Offred.

While I appreciate the difficulties OP, I don't think you have given your ds satisfactory answers.

He is absolutely, explicitly crying out for them - asking you directly and clearly struggling with his emotions.

Six is old enough to understand what happened in simplistic language. He really needs to hear this and to talk about this. You can really hammer home 'but Daddy loves you very very much, we both do'.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1482964-Suppose-just-an-xp-rant-but-also-a-wwyd my other thread that coupled with ds's excessive attempts at trying to please xp involving doing things he doesn't feel comfortable doing and worries about.

He will idolise him now, I think that's par for the course. Rest assured that he will see the difference later on, in a way, I think it's good because he'll look back and have good memories of his father throughout his childhood. Just because he is the big, exciting thing, doesn't mean that he doesn't love and make great memories with you and DP as well. If anything I remember the stuff I did with my Dad being exciting, but the stuff with my mum was more stable and that's comforting and reassuring. A lot of the time at our Dad's my sister and I just played by ourselves so it wasn't like he was spending every minute doing exciting things with us. As an adult, I'm close to my mum but have little to no relationship with my dad. He sometimes "likes" my facebook page and that's as close as it gets

I would probably stick by being neutral about his dad, saying something like "we argued and made each other sad" but if he comes to you with any stories about how his dad made him feel bad in XYZ way then of course be supportive and take his side, reassure him and perhaps do some explaining then.

Either way whatever you choose to do it's really important to use short factual statements. I think Offred's approach is also good if you choose to be more honest about what happened.

Yes proud, and I have tried to emphasise that it is how I feel from my side and daddy will have different feelings and thoughts and he can ask daddy his feelings and if necessary I will try to help facilitate daddy being able to tell ds his side (he will be frightened of getting in trouble with me).

Yes, I agree that it's a difficult conversation to have. There is a very fine line between telling the truth as you remember it and feel it - and putting a bias on the events - as is almost certainly inevitable as you relate the events as you saw them.

I'm posting not because I have faced this problem with my own dc, but because I was the child with the father that was asked to leave the matrimonial home for having an affair with his cleaner from the office.

Perhaps I am more biddable than most children and easier to fob off, or just plain naiive, but I can honestly say that as I grew up I had never any idea from my mother of the huge hurt I now know he caused her. She was always pleasant in front of him, she never spoke badly about him - even though he was unreliable about contact visits and often had no money left having spent it all on his new family.

This helped in two ways. First, I grew up without bitterness and with a happy relationship with my father. Secondly, as an adult and once I started having my own boyfriends, I realised what a fantastic job my mother did for me - and she never, ever needs to feel guilty that she affected the friendship between my father and me. I can see now that he was a weak and selfish shit - but I'm glad that I didn't have to know about that side of him when I was a child. And yes, how frustrating for my mother to have to tolerate my hero worship of him - she must be a saint! I wonder, if people are really honest with themselves, if their need to inform the children of the truth is really just a way to get their side of the break-up across...and I totally sympathise and understand feeling like that. It's a lot to expect of people that they have faith that their child will see things from their point of view some 10 years later! But in my case, anyway, I do.

The most helpful thing at this point for you would be for me to remember just what it was she said that meant that I stopped asking her all those difficult questions that you are having to cope with! I can only guess that she kept it light and simple, kept the hurt out of her responses (God knows how!) and probably did a great job of distracting me - 'Gosh, look what that blackbird's doing in the garden!' type of thing!

Yes, children need answers and it would only compound the problem if they felt as though they were being fobbed off...but maybe there is a case for telling them as little as you can until they are old enough for it to dawn on them naturally?

Good luck!

Offred, is BPD Borderline Personality Disorder?

I see your point/problem. i suppose all you can do is support him until he's old enough to say, Actually I don't want to go anymore, or not this week etc etc. All you can do is unpick the weird stuff and reinforce that his dad's thinking/deeds are part of his condition. Sounds like you are doing the best job possible.

My DS gets upset with how much he misses his dad. I say to him that we can call him (but we usually never manage to get hold of him, bloke's practically nocturnal ) He knows that the truth is far from how he'd imagine things to be, he can be real when he thinks of his dad.

Your's sounds like he's missing the dad he would like to have. I kind of get that as I always wanted the Ex to be the man I thought he was. I understand that craving. That's a tough nut to crack Offred, keep talking to him, that's all you can do.

I suspect that if I find a new partner that shows DS what he missed out on with his own dad, it will be positive in some ways, but devastating in others. He may feel cheated. I know I did when I realised just how abusive and unhealthy our relationship was for so long.

The main thing with our DC, is that we encourage openness and honesty, that we tell them that nothing they say or think will scare us, or upset us, that ALL feelings are valued, that we can talk about it all. Establish the trust so that they can let out the feelings that could turn inward, let the feelings out so we can look at them and challenge those that are skewed/unhelpful. Bit of impromptu CBT