mum is self-absorbed attention-seeking child-like drama queen - what is this?

[singlemum2012]

I've been reading stuff on narcissism but that just doesn't fit as she isn't deliberately mean, she means well and thinks she is doing her best as a mum/grandma. But if she isn't a narcissist I don't know what else to call her. To know might help me assess the damage to me and help me move forward with stronger self-esteem and healthier relationships.

It's always been about her, she's always been oblivious to anyone else's needs.
She's an only child.
Her mother was jealous and possessive of her, after her dad died at 15 she wouldn't let her leave home to go to teacher training college or travel, she made her get a job to support her, my grandma never worked. So she had it tough when she was younger. She's now retired and finally doing all the travelling she wanted to do and living her dream.
She acts like a child a lot of the time, doing things for attention like drawing attention to any physical discomfort she may be in, can talk for hours about her bowel movements/piles.
She wants my attention constantly and I find her exhausting. If I am trying to do something else on on the computer she just sits and stares at me.
I've never liked her touching me, I have no idea why. I am very tactile with my children and men I have dated. To try and touch me she will do things like tickle my foot if I am sitting next to her on the sofa or poke me in the back of the neck which I just find immensely irritating.
She dislikes babysitting the children and had made it clear she doesn't want to, so I no longer ask. Once I left her with them for two hours while I went to an exercise class and to get some groceries in, when I got back she was in floods of tears because she "couldn't work my coffee maker". My take on this was she was punishing me for leaving me with the kids.
She's constantly looking for affirmation eg I offer her some cake and its ooo I shouldn't, think of my waistline, but ooo it looks so nice, I'm so naughty aren't I, looking for a reaction from me...I am mentally rolling my eyes. Or she'll go on about her unattractive figure, how small her boobs are, how big her bum or tummy are...I keep quiet.
She and her comfort always comes first, she won't put herself out for anyone.

She'll offer to help but then make such a hash of it / pretend she can't do it / moan about it so you end up doing it anyway.
When I told her about me and ex-dh breaking up her reaction wasn't one of sympathy, it was, why didn't you tell me sooner, I thought you were a bit off with me because of something I had done, how could you let me think that, I was so upset thinking it was me...not a word of sympathy/empathy.

I could go on...any thoughts anyone??

Imagine single, being THAT self-absorbed that you don't even notice your child struggling? I know I let my kids down on occassion, but consistently? I was also the kid with the scruffy hair...

once I stayed w my aunt. I couldn't understand it, but one day she just said to me 'go and wash your hair'.
The water ran DARK BROWN. The second wash ran brown, and the third light brown. The fourth wash ran clean. How can you not notice your child needs washing??

Childhood was just a humiliating experience (me too w the bras, and being teased by the boys) of no clothes, wearing my school uniform the whole time because it was the only thing that fitted, being laughed at because my toes stuck out of my shoes, in the mean time there was lobster in the fridge and foie gras in the cupboard.

And she ALWAYS said coming back from a shopping trip: I was going to get you this, but... always. She never actually got me anything. She would rant at me for costing her stuff, which I now know is under the UN human rights of a child. I was made to feel so guilty and needy and worthless.

Molly I agree with you about diagnosis, but when the tales are so similar, is it projection, or a fact. Really.

Single: how do you know he is a sociopath! Thanks for listening to us, really. Thanks for trusting what we told you. Now you know you have friends and supporters, even if on the internet.

Abitwobblynow - I kept in text-only contact with him as I was really curious to find out. He actually admitted he was a sociopath, several times.

I used to wear my jumper at school even in the hot summer because I didn't want the other girls to see I was wearing a vest and not a bra :(

My mum does that "I was going to do this for you, but..." thing! Like when she comes to stay and she knows I've been studying for exams and my life is crazy right now as a single mum and my house is a mess. She got to the house 2 hours early and let herself in but didn't call me on my mobile (that would cost money!!). When I got in it was - I thought about tidying your house but....I thought about weeding your patio but.....she just sat on her arse for two hours and waited for us to return. I got in and spent next 3 hours cooking, loading dishwasher, putting kids to bed, before I could even get on with any studying. She was supposed to come up to help. For some reason I keep thinking every time she will be different and each time I am disappointed.

Aargh, I see what you mean.

DF is frugal to the point of miserliness. But he is not like your M and I don't think I am (hope not!) So if you want a label, I am probably barking up the wrong tree.

Labels can be good, but can also be a filter. for example I don't fit all the criteria for AS, but perhaps no-one does. I try my best to work on the traits that annoy people, but your M sounds oblivious. Does she have any good traits - loyalty, honesty etc?

Not narcissistic, sounds more like histrionic PD to me ( the self centered drama queens...). Still cluster B PD, though.

I was in hospital last week with suspected meningitis. I didn't have my mobile phone and my mother was desperate to talk so ringing all my friends instead. I gave the nurse the phone number by my bed and asked her to pass this to my mother as I could see that she was going to drive everyone nuts.

When my mother was given the number she told the nurse that she would call me 'in a little while' - not so desperate afterall . She began attempting to call me two hours later whilst the consultants were performing a lumbar puncture and kept trying every five fucking minutes.

when I finally was able to pick up the phone I was quite upset but she went on about how people have to put up with being in hospital sometimes, like her, and she was upset and to make things easier she wouldn't call me again incase they were performing medical procedures on me.

sorry for hijack - you are not alone

you are not alone

So sounds exhausting op

Really well done for getting him out of your life. Gosh, he is aware he is a sociopath. Was he proud of it. I hope if you even know a girl who is attracted, you warn them. That is a little discreet grapevine job IMO. His behaviour ends in death.

"For some reason I keep thinking every time she will be different and each time I am disappointed."

And THIS is the long, hard, lonely road. Accepting her for who she is. Giving up the hope that 'this time' she will see you [that you need help] and give you what you long for. [very, very painful]
SHE WON'T.

When you have painfully come to terms with this knowledge, painfully grieved accepted and let go [so you aren't hung on the outcome], is when you can say to her, you know mum I needed help, it would have meant so much to me if you had done a bit of tidying... increasing to: If you aren't going to see that I need help then you are just another person for me to look after and I haven't got any spare capacity so please don't come.

Imagine the scenes, tears and drama! She might not even speak to you for a week. One day, you will be strong enough to count that as a blessing and not a curse.

But people change when the discomfort of not changing is greater than changing. So see how it goes.

My narcissist H withdraws and sulks. Whilst denying he is angry. I have detached enough in that that is really his problem. He has two choices: find another OW who will be 'nice to him' [flatter, idealise] and leave, or stay around. But I will no longer censor myself or put his needs first.

OP you are not alone.

Wow abitwobbly; thats inspirational. I have got to the point of saying to myself (only) that I have no spare capacity to deal with the drama of my mother. Cannot imagine I could get to a point of saying it out loud.

Accepting her for who she is. Giving up the hope that 'this time' she will see you [that you need help] and give you what you long for. [very, very painful] SHE WON'T

This is the truth of dealing with a narc Mother and I wish I had realised this years ago.

Lump in the breast? this is how mine went, classic credit claim

Me: Mum, I've got breast cancer
Mum: oh dear, oh. I know how you feel, I had a lump in my breast once
Me: I remember from when I was little, was it actually cancer then?
Mum: oh no, but it was a lump
Me: well I do have cancer, you don't know how I feel. I'm worried about DS
Mum: oh I do, I went through it to you know...

Single, you are not alone. Abitwobbly's advice is the spot on.

'went through it too'

ThePinkPussycat - she does appear oblivious and does mean well, in her own head I truly believe she thinks she's doing the best job she could possibly do as a mother/grandma. And when in a good mood, in small doses and when not being too childish and not going on about her bowels she can be a lot of fun, we've had a few long weekends together and had a fine time. This without the kids though, so I have less to get pissed off about (no expectation for her to help / respond to them and be disappointed).

OldernotWiser47 - I did wonder about histronic but she doesn't have the seductive/flirtacious side of it, she lacks confidence.

Abitwobblynow - yes I finally dropped text/email contact as well with the sociopath as I got fed up of his constant lying, so much so that he kept tripping himself up and when I confronted him with it he'd fly into a rage and call me terrible names, throwing it all back onto me. The psychologist in me was interested in finding out more about him but it got to be more effort than it was worth, and who knows what was truth and what was fiction anyway. Also did not want him to attach or me to attach to him.
Re being honest with mum, last time (and probably only the second time ever in my life) I did this she bore a grudge for six months!! All the while assuming it was my problem not hers and that I hated her, for reasons she didn't understand. Its not worth the drama quite frankly, easier to keep my opinions to myself and keep her at arms length, see her in small doses.

SirSugar/sashh/porridgelover/itsspringtimenow/itsspringtimenow - so sorry to hear you have suffered too :(

OP it took me a long long time to realise just what my mother was like. Things have never been 'right' everything always turned to being about her but it was a brief conversation I had a year or so ago that made the penny drop.

She is a terrible gossip and loves a good bitch/gossip about anyone (I try and cut her off if possible). She was telling me about how our ex next door neighbour had been charged with some kind of porn stuff (I think underage). I told her he had made inappropriate comments to me (asked me if I wanted sex with him age 13 amongst other things) her reply in one diatribe was

"Well dont tell your Dad coz you know what he is like, he would go round there and beat him up and it would be your Dad getting into trouble with the police and....." I cut her off at this point and we had words. She was more bothered about the possibility of being on her own without my Dad, than what may of happened with her own daughter.. It was almost a moment of clarity for me and I have been able to 'see' how more of her deeds and words over the years were always about her

Wow.

So sad and also so familiar.

I'm sorry oldraver :(

I have come to realise recently that my mother was happier when I was married to abusive H (deceased) and unhappy. My mother is now unhappier that I am happier with wonderful DP.

Its about control you see. But, this week as I have been so ill I have decided to reset the boundries. I am an only child and my father is deceased so we only have each other and I am going to have a big talk with her. For starters I have already told her the constant calling me as soon as I leave work is just not a good time and I will call her. I think my mother does not want to feel sidelined, which she isn't, but I have become really resentful of her constant calls recently and she is putting herself in that position with me. LET ME BREATHE MUM

sounds like this, sirsugar? www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/engulfing-mother.html

mine's more like this I reckon:
www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/ignoring-mother.html

However I would argue that my mother does care, in the only way she knows how. She lacks the mean-ness of an out and out narcissist.
Can't put everyone in boxes though can we :)

singlemum the loss of hope was the hardest thing to bear. I always thought that if the ""big thing" happened that my parents (both narcs!) would finally step up - the big thing DID happen - I got cancer. They didn't step up. My last bit of hope was crushed. After my recovery from cancer I saw a counsellor and worked everything through with her. I now have no feelings about them - they are just people I know. Strangely, I now feel as if the tables have turned, now that I no longer run after them looking for validation they are trying to get it from me.

I can relate to the not wanting her to touch you. Can't bear my parents to touch me - they had no interest in doing so while I was a child and it's all only for show anyway - hope you can find your way through OP

Wow, Robot! What did you and your counsellor do, to get you to this place? How long did it take, did you have any affirmations or sayings to yourself to help you keep a sense of self around them?

It is very hard to explain to other people how crushing and dangerous narissistic parents are. You see, they don't hold your hand over a gas stove, beat you, etc its all invisible.

But they make you feel like nothing, invisible, having no right to ask for anything, being made to feel abnormal for asking, so you eventually don't know what you have a right to, and what is trying it on. It really really affects you, in all walks of life.

I married a narcissist, so had the whole thing of rejection and dismissal happen again - this time by my own choice (crushing) I have always been obviously and abnormally underemployed, because I didn't believe I was worth anything more. The overwhelming emotion is anxiety (someone is going to shout at me any minute) and depression.
The shadows are very long. I would like to get to the place where Robot is, and I am trying. One day at a time!

OP I agree that they care in the only way they know how; and in the long run its healthier (but much harder) to get past the lack of adequate mothering from them that we had as children to what Robot says about not having feelings for them.
I find if I can talk to her with zero expectations of being an advisor/support/on my side/back-up then I can have a polite conversation. Never admit a problem or difficulty or mistake I have made- thats fuel for her to tell me where I went wrong.

Robot that's a very sad story. Glad to hear that you have recovered and it's helped you see the truth about your parents.

Abitwobbly - yes yes yes! I have suffered from underlying anxiety and depression all my life, bite my nails and skin till it bleeds.

I'm lucky to have a good job, but have never married - find it hard to believe anyone would love me for me, without judging me. I also find it hard to ask for things, especially in a relationship because I always think they are going to leave. I now wonder if I'll ever have the chance to be married (yes, I know there's more to life and it's ok to be single, but I'd like a loving relationship).

I also overeat as I have felt all my life that I don't deserve to look good. Have been obese overweight since I was mid 20s. Trying hard to shift it now, but it's very comfortable on my hips after all this time

sorry that just hit a nerve.

I would tell her what issues you have with her, of course in a calm controlled way. I honestly wouldn't want to hurt her but she needs to be made aware what she is doing to you and in turn your Dc.
I couldn't have a relationship with my mother if she was like that, I simply couldn't deal with her.
If you give her the opportunity to change/improve then maybe she can, it's worth a try.

SM

Talking to her about your relationship is a complete non starter as she won't ever get it and will make it all about her again.

I would also think your mother is a narcissist as well; there are different "types" e.g ignoring, engulfing. The websites you've been quoted are good ones to read.

My MIL is not mean but she is still a self absorbed narcissist all the same.

Trying to get a narcissist to see reason is a waste of time and effort. It is not possible to have any sort of relationship with a narcissist as the goalposts keep moving the whole time.

You need to completely detach from her and cut her out of your life.

Narcs don't have to be mean and Psychopaths aren't always criminals. It's a personlity trait that in an extreme form is classed as a disorder.

They are 'made' the way they are by early emotional neglect. It affects how their brains develop.

Your DM sadly can't change cos she can never feel empathy for you or anyone else.
Do you know anything about her babyhood? Was her own mother 'absent'?

Hey guys don't feel sad for me I'm doing great!

Abitwobblynow I would say it took about 4 years to get to where I am now. I wasn't in counselling for all that time though. It started one day when I had an epiphany and realised that they were NEVER going to be there for me. I was going to start counselling then but the bastard cancer hit and it was all I could do to get myself physically through the illness, let alone sorting out emotional problems!

A few months after I finished chemo I was feeling very low emotionally and couldn't cope with the most basic tasks. My friend helped me find a counsellor and I went to her over some months. I think I was looking for an answer to why are they like they are? In the end, there wasn't an answer - she helped me work through everything and made me realise that none of it was my fault. We couldn't get to the bottom of why they are like it as they are both very closed people. The funny thing is, although I didn't get my "answer" it didn't matter anymore - I'd moved on emotionally and physically.

I also have a hypnotherapist I have visited for various reasons over the last few years since being ill. - A couple of years after finishing with the counsellor I was having anxiety issues and panic attacks and couldn't understand why. I went to my hypnotherapist and she is pretty sure it stemmed from childhood - again she helped me work through the feelings and I came out the other side. I now rarely have anxiety issues and every day I feel stronger mentally and am improving all the time. I have learned to keep my parents at arms length and just laugh at and brush off their comments which are designed to wound - 99% of my life I don't even have any thoughts about them - good or bad!

If anyone is interested the book that really helped me get started on the road to recovery was

If You Had Controlling Parents: How to Make Peace with Your Past and Take Your Place in the World by Dan Neuharth

good luck everyone!

robot that is terrible, I'm so so sorry...

Abitwobbly I've always been underemployed as well, bitten my nails, overeating all my life and very low self-worth until I saw a very good counsellor a couple of years back. Sadly since I am now single mum I can't afford to see her till I'm earning a decent salary again (I live in hope). But she sorted me out loads. Self-esteem still not quite there but tons better :)

Attila you are quite right, you cannot reason with her, it is always all about her and she will never see it otherwise. Believe me I have tried.

Finallygotaroundtoit actually it is unproven that narcissism/sociopathy is due to emotional neglect. Having said that, her mother was worse than her in many ways, sad bitter and poisonous woman very jealous and protective of my mum and very critical of us as children. She was oldest child of many, expected to help rear siblings, look after ill grandmother and sent out in service at 14, but that is not unusual for that generation.