How do I change myself to make friends?

[CarpeJugulum]

I was going to post a huge long post with reasons, but it was taking too long. So in a nutshell, I stink at making friends.

I never get invitations (despite issuing them!) for my DS to play with other DC's and I get ignored and talked over at playgroups - with other mums walking away from me mid conversation.

I know that similar aged DC does not mean immediate friendship, but I'd like to at least make superficial acquaintances so DS does not get left out.

As a small bit of background, I am an only child and was badly bullied - so my confidence is zero at best.

How can I change things so I am friendly, approachable and people want to talk to me?

Tbh these two mums sound rude. Not nice to exclude someone from the conversation.

Now, I think the clue is that you don't need to click with every single mum at the playground. I bet there are some mums that you would click with, though, so don't get discouraged. Just because you don't go out a lot doesn't mean you're not interesting.

I think that feeling good about yourself is what makes it easier interacting with other people. What are your strong points? Have you got any hobbies or interests?

You last post made me laugh, because it's so exactly the opposite of normal! Like most other childfree women, I felt distanced when all my pals sprogged. Our conversations would be more like:
Mum1: Been anywhere nice lately, Garlic?
Me: Yes, I went to xxx restaurant last week, amazing food, have you tried it?
Mum1: No, we stay in most nights now we've got DC.
Mum2: Us, too! We're too knackered to do anything in the evenings! And I don't like to leave DC. I know I should, but ...
Me: No babysitters?
Mum2: Oh, no, it's just that I can't bear to part from them. And I'm so tired!
Mum1: Oh, I know! Not trying to be funny, Garlic, but when you have children your whole value system changes ...

Can't win, eh

Hobbies: None - my working life pre DS didn't allow much time for that, and it's difficult making time for hobbies after; collapsing is all I seem to do!
Interests: rugby league - not a huge sport where I am (NE Scotland), F1 and baking badly

None of which have a wider audience appeal traditionally with women. When mentioned I usually get a look and a change of subject back to shopping

It may be the friends I try to make - DS does toddler gymnastics and the other kids are older and have been in the class for longer, so it's a ready made clique IYSWIM - but that doesn't bother me as most of the time I have to rescue DS from improbable places. It's the toddler groups where DS is about the same age, and then you hear "oh it was fun, must do it again" and work out that everyone has been at a BBQ at the weekend and your DS is the only non-invitee.

I don't mind from my perspective - but I hate to think that DS will be ostracised as I was

Sounds like you are trying to bond with when wrong people.

Talk of eating out like that would bore me rigid.

I am the oposite of you op. Though I don't have many close friends I am one if those people who can chat to anyone.

My top tips are smile, find out what they like to talk about, but mainly pick your victim carefully. No to alphamummies, too self absorbed, just ppick someone who looks like you, sort of. It's a knack, but an easy one to learn.

Fwiw I was bullied a lot at school, and learned the art of making lots of aquaintances at a kind of protection.

I think it helps if you have something in your life to moan/gossip about. Family members are good, especially in-laws.

So in answer to the question Have you been to X restaurant you could reply "Oh I couldn't possibly go there - that is where FIL takes his mistress".

I have no hobbies either, and a geeky job that tends to kill conversation if people ask what I do.

Dosen't help that I am a bit too keen on my job, and can witter on about it if anyone feigns an interest.

So what I am trying to say is. You are totally normal. Don't worry too much. Some of the people you are trying to engage with sound damn rude. Once you get the hang of zoning in on more suitable people, you will be fine!

If it is people with older children they might just be less interested in meeting new people than you, if they already have mummy friends.

When your DS gets old it wont really matter whether you are friends with the other mums. My DDs have thier own friends, some with mums I like, some I dont really like (and who I expect dont like me) and some I hardly know. It really makes no difference at all to their social lives.

If you are looking for more friends for yourself have you looked at something like gumtree if there are any group activities that you might like, or n*m**s has a bit on its forum for meeting people locally. There are local sections on mumsnet too, you could start a thread on your local bit.

Firstly you don't need hundreds of friends, just one or two good ones. So, while it is nice to have the ability to make small talk in the playground, it's not essential for making friends. Indeed, I think the playground is a bad place to meet like-minded people, you are just thrown together by the age of your children and not much else. I haven't made any playground mum friends and I'm pretty sociable, I just have a few people to chat to and all we say is trivial things anyway.

To make better friends: try befriending a new person at the school, my dd had a new girl and no-one spoke to the mum or the daughter, I went up and started chatting and made a friend for dd who goes for tea; phone or look up your old friends, you know you like them and resurrecting a good old friendship can be better than looking for a new one; do fun things you actually enjoy and if you make friends, so much the better, so go to a cookery course, or learn something new, or go to a yoga class, it's less cliquey as you are all thrown together whereas in the playground lots of people are neighbours/in groups already; get a job where you will meet all kinds of people not just those with children.

I wouldn't roam the playground looking for friends, I find this an intimidating place sometimes and I'm not surprised you don't have great success. If you want your son to get invited to things, do lots of invites for playdates (send a note home in the school bag) or have a class party early in the first year, then everyone has your phone number. But don't put your stress about friendship onto him, he may be great at making friends or be happy with just one or two friends, you simply don't know.

Carpe i remember sitting listening to conversations just like that (not necessarily the restaurant stuff, but just listening to other people talk while I sat there).

I don't find small talk easy - I used to think I was rubbish at making friends but actually I make friends more easily when there's some kind of shared task iyswim.

So at work I find it easy, but I hated all toddler groups to start with - it just took months before I found 3 or 4 people I could talk to easily. I also volunteered to help with one of them (led the singing, but it could be supervise the tidying up or whatever) and felt better having something to do rather than worry about whether i had made friends with anyone.

The mum who walked off sounds like a right cow someone you wouldn't want to be friends with anyway. As others have said maybe you could try another group? I go to one which isn't on during school holidays and this means it's a good opportunity to ask if anyone fancies meeting for a coffee next week (seeing as the group isn't running). Honestly, don't feel like it is you though - you sound lovely!

I agree with the other posters, it?s possibly a lot to do with the other mums have already formed a clique so they have no incentive to be sociable to anyone else. Carpe, you mentioned you don?t go out but you stay in and read or watch TV, so how about saying something like ?oh, I?ll probably stay in a read this great novel called XXXXX that I started recently, have you read it?? It makes you seem more enthusiastic about life (enthusiasm is contagious) and is a possible conversation starter if the other mum also reads. Same with TV. Perhaps instead of if being ?only TV?, say ?I?m staying in to watch [insert name of TV show] coz I find that really funny/entertaining/interesting, have you been watching it?? OK, both these are closed questions that only need a yes or no answer, but it?s an idea. Or how about something like ?I?ll probably lose myself in Mumsnet for an hour or two?, because people have often heard about it and have an opinion, and it could get a conversation started.

Also, I heard a psycho theory about how to be more popular with someone and that is to ask them for a favour or help on some way. I thought this was weird when I heard it, but apparently people tend to be hugely flattered if they are asked for help.

Yes people tend to gravitate to other people with similar age children. That's not unusual I think. I know groups like that.

The restaurant conversations don't happen with the people I know. Our kids are too young and we are all too tired. We talk about places to take the kids, compare nap hell and ask what's happened to our careers and social lives. The type of conversation you mention sounds like mums of older children who get out and about more. I would feel out of place too but I wouldn't think that reflects badly on me, just that I'm at a different stage in my life to them if that makes sense.

Maybe I'm not as weird as I thought then.

Have managed to organised a Jubilee playdate for DS as obviously things are shut that'd he'd normally attend.

My circle is just so limited now - it will possibly improve once DS gets older and understands that I will come back and me not being there doesn't mean I've abandoned him; although at the moment this feels like it'll be when I'm old and grey.

How old your DS Carpe?

He's 20mo next week, but is very clingy. He'll play happily in the room if I'm there, but if I leave (for example to pop to the loo at a toddler group) he has a nuclear meltdown. This even happens if I nip to the kitchen at home without telling him.

Partly my (not fault - that's not the right word) issue as I ended up in hospital twice with my gallbladder when he was about a year old and he still hasn't forgotten that I "disappeared"; especially as the first time he saw me lying on the floor screaming before he went to bed before the attack passed (DH was at work and there was nothing I could do but lie there and pray), and then I was taken by ambulance to hospital so I wasn't there when he woke. I was then in for about 10 days the first time and about a week the second time.

I think this has had major issues with him being scared that I'll disappear again, and as we don't have family anywhere close, I can't start leaving him with them for 1/2 an hour here and there etc to build up his confidence.

He's fine when DH is there either - but if neither of us are there, it's just heartbreaking.

And, because of the no mummy friends, I can't try leaving him for 5 minutes with a fellow mum to "pop to the shop" and try that way.

It sounds as though you've had a rough time. There are two issues here - one is the fact that your DS is clingy and the other is the friendship issue. They are linked but one hasn't caused the other.

You'll get lots of advice but I wouldn't bother trying to address your DS' clinginess. DC1 was clingy and - although admittedly I went back to work between DC - is absolutely fine now. DC2 is now also clingy but I know that it will work itself out with time and the ability to communicate ("Mummy's just going to the toilet, can you do...?") and if not then meh just take him to the loo. I was really embarrassed that I couldn't do exactly that with DC1 but this time round I honestly couldn't care less. Better to have my DC reassured and close and anything for an easy life. It gets easier - you may never have a DS who is completely happy for you to leave, but it will get easier. Not too much longer.

I think the confidence in doing what's right for you and your DS in public, rather than trying to get him to do what you think might look acceptable and what you think he should be doing because other people's toddlers are doing it (if it goes against what he wants to do IYSWIM) is what would also count towards making you more attractive and approachable. You don't say it but I suspect you spend a lot of time worrying about what people think?

Foshizzle I do spend a lot of time worrying about other people. Going to toddlers means that everything has to be ironed, my hair needs to be done (ie not just scragged back in a ponytail) and I can't be late as walking in late would just make me cringe.

I'm not too bothered about the clingy DS - I've worked round it; and I have excellent bladder control!

I'm just worried that I don't make friends, or at least good mum acquaintances, that I can encourage DS to spend time with their DC's so that he is more socialised than I was as (at the moment at least) he may well be an only child. And that is more about me and my personality rather than my parenting skills.

I really sympathise...I never really fitted in with other mums at playgroups or waiting at school gates when my now grown up DC were small. Other than what has been suggested, I wanted to say that since I have owned a dog and walked regularly in nearby parks with her, I have met all sorts of really friendly people! I wish I had done this years ago.I don't know if it would be feasible in your situation, but if it is, I would give it a strong recommendation....

I don't think that Shadowland's suggestion about getting a dog would necessarily work as having a small child usually breaks the ice and if that hasn't done it for the op I doubt whether a dog would.

What did we do this weekend??? Ummm same as usual catch up on house work, meet a friend for an hour at the park and tv. That was saturday!! Sunday... Long walk in the woods by the river and to the park then lunch out and creative arts this afternoon!!! Yep boring normal family stuff!! So guess I'm boring to lol! Im the same at playgroup so just keep going the ice will break eventually. Chin up x

Yes so I think the first step is doing your best not to project your fears and anxieties on to him. Watch how he interacts with other children at playgroup (at 20 months he will likely play alongside other children anyway more than with them). My DC1 for example observes other children and then imitates them. DC2 just wades in and starts playing. Then try and facilitate however you think might help (either by stepping back and letting it happen - in the case of DC1 - or hovering to encourage sharing - in the case of DC2).

Being an only child in itself isn't a surefire way of not being able to socialise. And he's very young. I get that you want to give him as many opportunities as possible, but don't put pressure on yourself to make friends in order to do that so that you feel you've failed him if you don't. He will make friends at pre-school and at school, regardless of what you do.

And seriously, toddler groups can be a nightmare for this sort of thing. Do you have a playground nearby? It is more likely that the mums you meet there will be there on their own, and I've found it much easier to chat to people there.

OP you sound like me. I felt guilty during maternity leave as I didn't have friends for DS.

Second time around I'm more chatty with people as I try and make an effort although no playmates yet, except for my neighbour.

At playgroups I don't feel so embarrassed to talk to people. I just make crap conversation. It can get awkward but that's because I'm tired and my brain freezes. I bet it happens to other mums too.

Where do you live? Do you have a lot of groups you could try?

OP, separation anxiety is normal at that age. I think you are projecting your own anxiety about not having enough friends onto your son, his behaviour in having a meltdown when you leave the room shows he's securely attached and misses you!!! You mustn't worry if he doesn't easily go to others at this age, both mine had separation anxiety, my dd1 was terrible, there was about 6 months that I couldn't leave her with my mum even to go to the shops, she just used to sob the entire time I was gone (all of 30 min). When she was three, I dressed her for pre-school expecting the worst, she ran off and was fine!

There's no evidence at this stage your son won't make friends, but 'friends' is probably the wrong word aged 20 months!

You sound lovely and over time I'm sure you'll find someone who you click with and wants to chat about the same stuff as you, and appreciates your good qualities.

Well, feeling a bit better about DS. We went out for a very late lunch/early dinner (dunch?!) at the local resturant which has a nice softplay room. We ate while DS ran himself ragged and played with other random kids.

I'd guess most were older than him, but they seemed to want to play with him - they were giving him toys and balls from the ball pit so it made me and feel better.

I do agree with Mumsyblouse that I am probably projecting my feelings onto DS (although hopefully he is not aware of this!) but I am conscious that I had a mum who didn't make friends easily, and was very depressed for a good while; probably about being a SAHM and not having social interactions.

Luckily, I have managed to retain my job and work from home (pay is crap, but pays a few bills and the independence is vital for me). I am also very aware of when I start to feel depressed and either get myself down the GP's quick smart or try to combat it at home with DH's help. I'm fortunate that since DS I have only had one episode and it was dealt with thanks to a fantastic GP and counselling; mainly due to being stuck in house for 6 weeks after c-section and then the snows for a few more weeks.

I guess I'll persevere with the groups - it may not be for me, but DS loves it!