Child access

[Leedsboy]

Not sure if this is the right place but ... I live three hours drive away from my dd and her Mum. So access is normally a long weekend, not every Sat/Sun. When I do see her she isn't ready till about 1130 then I have to bring her back for the afternoon sleep at 2.30. All that way for a few hours. Even spread over the weekend it doesn't seem much.

So is this reasonable? Do 2 year olds religiously need an afternoon nap then upon waking up have tea/get ready for bed. She doesn't go to sleep till about 8pm so not sure why I can't see her in the evening, apart from her Mum keeping me out of the house.

This weeekend I will spend a whole day with her as we are going out to a zoo as a threesome. She will miss her afternoon nap but will that be bad for her? Would it hurt her if she spent a day with Dad, get tired, and be ready for bed in the evening?

Doubt it will hurt her at all!

Take a buggy and she can nap in that. You are her dad and what happens during your contact time is up to you.

If Saturday is your day, then she needs to be collected before 11.30

I have never had any routine what so ever but she has. However if u have a buggy she can nap in if she's really tired ie have made provision for this scenario then I see no problem. what happens in your contact time is up to you.

Hi LB. Sorry to hear of this. I do feel sorry for fathers who are desperate to be in their child's life and this country primarily thinks it's always the father who is the lowlife - in my experience, it's usually the mother who likes to make things awkward but people are too quick to judge.

I would see how this weekend goes with the zoo. Maybe it's better for her at this age to be kept active during the day (zoo) and possibly go to bed a little earlier.

May I ask how on earth she isn't ready until 11.30am!!?? My DSD was up by 6am at that age and I think most children that age are up around 6am - 8am. Do you have her overnight when you have her on a Saturday?

Sorry LB. I just read your post again and see that you collect her at 11.30am and take her back at 2.30pm.

That's ridiculous imho. Absolutely obsurd. A child needs her dad in her life more than that.

Thanks for that, her Mum dictates the time but we haven't gone through a Court Order yet. The zoo should be good - not a big one more of a working farm with acquarium but at 2 she doesn't need the whole Safari thing. Might be a bit scary as well.

Normally we go to a soft play centre - a chance for her to let off steam as I don't think she gets much fresh air. Her Mum doesn't drive. Nearby there is a concrete play area with swings, but even parks are too far away unless she gets a bus. Being on benefits I'm not sure what her finances are but she is learning to drive again.

I don't know what dd's sleep patterns are like but I'm sure she must be up and about early. When she was a baby she would sleep/wake up/sleep etc. You know what a baby's sleep routine is like. But at 2 perhaps she sleeps better?

Such a short amount of time seems unreasonable to me. Yes young children need their naps but their need their dads too! I wouldn't hurt her to either miss one every once in a while or to nap in her buggy.

If you're going to the zoo with DD and her mum then it sounds like you get on with mum ok-ish. Could this be something that you discuss with her? She won't want to go down the court line any more than you do, more so in fact as I would have thought that they will allocate you more access than you are currently getting - that's just my opinion. Tread gently and be nice about it, say that you understand the importance of nap time but can you work around it. Mum obviously knows that naps can be missed once in a while hence the zoo trip. I don't see why you can't just pop off and have some lunch while you DD sleeps and then come back and collect her.

My two year old twins will not nap well enough in the pram to be rested. They need to be in bed. One time they missed a nap and would not sleep in the day for two weeks instead they were completely worn out and bumping themselves/fighting and falling asleep at 4.30. I don't think two year olds benefit from spending a big long time away from home with a non resident parent. It is vastly better for them to do little and often. Is there any reason why you can't move closer? I think you are in danger of considering what is better for you rather than what is good for the child here.

Basically I don't think you can assume missing the nap will not be disruptive, it may well be. My elder two would nap anywhere, my younger two need to be in bed and needs couple of hours sleep as well as a wind down period before bed. They have lunch at 11.30, a story and some quiet time 12-12.30 and then settle to sleep and have to wake up to go to school at 2.30. If the baby only goes down for a nap at 2.30 I imagine she does come out of her nap and into tea/bed yes.

Offred - what makes you think that a 2 yr old doesn't benifit from a whole day away with a non resident parent?
Just because they are non resident it doesn't mean they don't have the same rights/access as the RP.

My XP and I split up when DD was 2. He's had her every other weekend plus one night in the week ever since. He also can take her out for a few hours on other days if he has something planned.
I would never deny him or her that.

My own DM controlled access with my DF when I grew up. I missed out. I'm not close to him at all!

Disgraceful!

I havent just pulled it out of the sky. Research into it has shown that 2 year olds (young children) don't cope well with long periods of visitation and that if you don't have to do it it is better to do little and often which means they get more out of it. To me it should never be about the rights of the parents to have access but encouraging a strong and secure relationship between the child and the absent parent and this is best done with little and frequent contact in stable and secure circs. What is best for the child may not be best for the adults and I think that should take priority.

I'm not talking about a whole day either I am talking about deliberately imposing unnecessary disruptions on her routine because her daddy has to travel a long way to see her, she is too young to cope with or understand that. I dont think it is best for her but about what would be better for the dad. A five or six year old can much more easily cope with things like that but 2 is still very young. If you put the effort into a less than ideal (for you) contact arrangement in time it will be easier but it is important to keep things stable and to work around the child's routine when they are very little. So if the mum would normally go to the zoo and miss the nap and she is coming too it doesn't necessarily mean it would be best for the child to have the dad breeze in and disrupt things every weekend.

What I mean is that its just as important for a child to bond with a non RP.
The same routine can still carry on at the non RP home.

I think using that is an excuse to control/dictate access to spite the non RP.

But how can it ninja if the op lives far away. The courts expect that at some point a child between 18m and three will be able to start having one overnight stay once per month but that this should be closely monitored and child focused. If the op is visiting another town and doesn't have a place for the child to sleep etc how is it possible for them to keep up the routine? They are asking specifically to disrupt the routine so they can see the child for time that they want to spend with her. That's why I asked if it was possible to move closer.

In some ways it is more important to really work on the bond between the absent parent and the child. That isn't done by putting your needs and desires about contact first or by disrupting their home life to see them, they will find this difficult and confusing and they will associate those feelings with seeing their dad.

a child between 18m and three will be able to start having one overnight stay once per month

rubbish.

But as the OP pointed out, the mother will allow a day out at the zoo without the nap. So it looks to me as if its a control issue. She will allow it if she's involved but insists the child is back for nap time if she's not.
Are you seriously saying that every parent has made sure they are home by a certain time every day for nap time? I think not. I see loads of toddlers asleep in buggies/ in the car etc....

I suspect that 'research' was carried out by a bunch of scorned women!

What I'm saying is that when you are introducing a child to the NRP's environment it needs to be done gently with the focus being on the child in order for the relationship to develop in a beneficial way for both parent and child. It does not compare in any way to what may occur in the child's usual home. I don't know why people would think that adding in unnecessary disruptions would help the child form a strong bond. The child needs to feel safe and secure.

So, I don't see why it is unreasonable that a two year old would need a nap or that she might need to have that nap in a bed. The op lives far away and cannot provide a bed. I also think it is reasonable to allow at least half an hour for settling before a nap meaning she won't go down till a minimum of 3pm and may wake up at 4.30 or 5. This is a late nap and it is possible the zoo trip and late nap are so that the dad can see the child because he is pestering. I don't see any evidence to suggest the RP is being unreasonable. Because you might have chosen to have long hours of contact with very young children doesn't mean it is the best thing to do. I don't see why it is a ridiculous idea that little and often is better for a small child.

I'm the RP though, I left XP. He stayed in the home that DD was born and grew up in until 2 years old. From the moment I left he had consistent regular contact. It was more disruptive to be away from her father. It's important that they have the time to bond.

I speak from my own experience with my own father.

www.kittybrewster.com/family/Sealey.doc - from the association of family court welfare officers.

It has worked very well with my DD thanks Offred!

She's 7 now and a very happy child. She's very close to her father and his partner as she is with me and my DP. She has 4 people close to her who love her dearly and do what's best for her. She has recently come back from a week long summer holiday with her DF. She goes every year.

Of course its the best thing to do.

For HER!

And seriously I am not trying to pass judgment on what has worked for others. I'm just trying to say the op doesn't have a legal leg to stand on in insisting on what he wants and the RP isn't being objectively unreasonable that I can see.

She's just asserting what is best for her child.

Thanks for the link but I don't need to read it.

Welfare courts were involved when I was a child. It didn't stop me from wanting to spend more time with my DF but my DM still prevented it.