Am I at fault or is OH being totally unreasonable??

[Dunnowotshappened]

I need some advice please, I've got no one to talk to in rl & talking to myself only gets me so far! Sorry this might be long!

I have been with dp for 7.5yrs & we have 2 ds, 23 mo & 12 wo. Over the past few weeks dp has become increasingly distant & even hostile towards me. I have also noticed he has started to guard his phone & is on it a lot more. It comes across that he has little regard for me & while I have approached the subject to him, he has dismissed my attempts to talk.

There were various instances while I was pregnant. One in particular upsets me still. 2 days before I was due for my c-sec we arranged that after our son was in bed (we live with my parents) we would go to get him a present from the new baby. As I was putting ds1 to bed dp announced that he wanted to go to his mums (she lives 10 min drive away) as well, I wasn't up for this as being 38 weeks preg I just wanted to get home and go to bed. So I told him I didn't want to go & he said he didn't care that I didn't want to go, he was going so we argued & he refused to see my reasoning & kept saying he didn't care what I thought he's going to see his mum. So he went & I didn't. He came back with some toy car that I wouldn't have chosen for ds1 & while I was awake most of the night upset at the total lack of empathy from him he went to sleep.

Fast forward to one Sunday he was cleaning out the house rabbit on the top landing, I was below looking after the bunny who wasn't interested in me & just lied down. Both ds were napping & I had left my phone on with ds2. So asked dp if I could use his phone to have a look on the Internet (I had seen dp with his phone minutes earlier). He said he hasn't got it, I said I just saw u with it, he says I haven't got it, must be downstairs. So I go downstairs & it's not there. I tell him & he says I don't know where it is, its not on me, I haven't got any pockets. I l knew he was blatantly lying but why? Anyhow I caught him out, while I could hear he'd stopped 'cleaning' I quietly went up the stairs & there he was on the phone quickly stuffing it into his shorts. I confronted him, he said yeah so, I can do what I want with my phone, I'm using it. It's not that he was using his phone, it's that he lied to me. Still don't know why he lied.

Now 6 weeks & things between us are rapidly going down hill. He hardly talks to me, is still being secretive with his phone & taking it everywhere with him, not showing any interest in me or our boys - never asks about our day, no phone calls during the day (when he has always called before), no texts, coming home late, being snappy & angry towards me, not wanting to spend time with me & kids, he's hardly formed any relationship with our 12 week old son, which I find heartbreaking & he keeps putting off talking about our relationship. I dunno if I'm going nuts but somethings wrong & it all points to one thing to me!!!!

I know the 2 instances aren't that bigger deal but they were hurtful. I practically begged him one night to tell me what's wrong & he says he's not talking bullshit relationship stuff cos he's got nothing to say. Every weekend he wants to do nothing but at lunch time (b4 naptime) says he's going out for something i.e. Pet shop & he goes for hours. Today he left at 1 & came back at 4! Said he was driving around. The atmosphere is awful, my poor boy (2.5) has hardly seen his daddy & we often argue when he does.

Last night he refused to kiss our 12 wo son goodnight & I got really angry. So later I said why this change in your behaviour, he's adamant he's not changed. He responds with back chat you'd expect from a teenager. He said maybe you've changed. He went to walk off, I begged him to talk, tried to reason with him that we have to sort this our for our boys, but he carried on walking, saying he's not listening to this bullshit. I was so angry that I told him to go to his mums if he's not gonna talk to me. And he did, he left & didn't talk to me. I called him last night and he cancelled my call & again this morning. Am I imagining all this or is he being totally unreasonable to me??

Sorry for length but I need to hear other opinions.

Yes, OP's other half is capable in theory, but apparently not in practice. Yes, shoulda woulda coulda if you can. Not everyone can - their serious loss.

If only all of us could talk, share,communicate, cry, learn and heal. Then there would be no need for Forums like this, I guess.

Sometimes one person is at fault but sometimes two people, in ways we don't really understand, have contributed to the breakdown of a relationsihp.

Often but not always, Mumsnet is of the "leave the bastard you have done no wrong" point of view and statistically, or however you want to see it, perhaps anecdotally, this simply cannot be the case. And believe me, I have been single for X number of years as I simply would not contemplate another pointless, screwed-up, good-for-nothing, man.

We all make mistakes.

Anyway, I'm glad to see that the offensive post last night telling me to "fuck off" with other associated insults has now been deleted. Over and out.

rite ok your OH is a total dick we have established that! you now need to do what is best for your children, and seeing their parents arguing is not good for anyone and your oldest child is old enuf to notice daddy isnt/doesnt want to spend time with them so sorry hun but cut your losses with this twat! you and you alone can and will be a fantastic parent to your kids, u seem to be doing it yourself anyway! make sure though his family and yours know what is going on and why! he shudnt get off easy!
i'm sorry you are having to go through this xx

Please don't get offended at what I'm about to say, but is there any way your DH could think your second child isn't his? It's just what you're saying about him ignoring him, and coming back to see the elder child etc is making me wonder.

You really, really, really need the support of your parents. Please tell them everything that has been going on so that they can take care of you and your children.

As for your H, he's behaving like a spineless brat who has been caught with his hand in the biscuit tin. If he isn't having a full-blow affair, he's definitely got one on his mind; he's detaching himself from the family, ignoring your baby, trying to make you believe you're the one at fault...

I'd make it crystal clear that you're onto him. Leave a bag on the doorstep, lock the door and ignore the bell when he arrives, switch your phone off and let him stew. Take back the control, because right now he's coming and going as he pleases.

Oh no, OP. I hope you're okay. Thinking of you :(

lapis That was a very cruel thing to post to a woman who's just had a baby and is being neglected herself by her husband. Very cruel. I don't know how you thought such a post would help a woman in her position- Her husband is treating her very very badly, and instead of commenting on that, you wrote a post designed to make her feel she was to blame.
You have a point about parents making time for their relationship after babies are born, but to make that point on this thread, when the DH is clearly a cruel and vile man and the OP is not to blame, was shameful. I am genuinely sad that someone could offer so little support to another in a sad time.

I think when replying to sensitive threads it is not about reading between the lines and trying to get an accurate judgement - that would be impossible anyway - it's about taking the information the op felt she could share and replying based on that information, and maybe cautiously asking a question or two if you want clarification or have a theory.

Not just barging into a thread where someone is clearly distressed and making wild assumptions and giving relatively patronising, old-fashioned advice which could seek to harm the op.

For what it's worth, I don't necessarily know if the op's dp is cheating, but she needs support. And a much more gracious way to respond after being ' ganged up on' (e.g being met with a shared response from a handful of women who all disagreed with your inconsiderate comments) would have been to apologise for any offense caused, instead of continuing to argue the same point, accusing people of bullying and not understanding radical feminism.

No the thread is not about anyone but the op, but she is going through a tough time so when people enter her thread and make unsupportive comments, there is going to be a reaction from people who feel for her and want her to continue feeling supported.

How are things now op?

Tell everyone that your H has left, almost certainly for another woman. Seek legal advice as soon as possible. And promise yourself that if this man decides he wants to come home he will have a lot of work to do before you allow him back.
Because sometimes men behave like this in order to frighten you into obedience and submission - to give you the message that unless you prioritize them and their needs absolutely, they will render you single. Thing is, it's a lot better to be single than to be scurrying around after a man who thinks you are his servant. He's behaved badly, extremely badly, why would you want him back?

sorry but I have to agree. (hate jumping on the bandwagon but after my own experience.....) After my H did the speech, I dont love you any more, cant put up with you any more, im unhappy, blah blah blah and moved out, I discovered that he had been texting his best friends wife up to 100 times a day. Due to the nature of his work, he is always on his phone, so I didnt think anything of it at the time, but looking back I could see that he had been taking his phone everywhere with him, charging it overnight beside the bed, going off to the utility room every night to "sort out the cats stuff" and taking ages, he started to keep it in the door pocket of the car rather than in the middle as he always had done and he was always texting and on facebook on his phone.

after he moved out I found a facebook chat which led me to check his mobile phone records. i tried to deny it to myself and he certainly denied it. I still have no proof of an actual affair, but he is definitely emotionally attached to somebody else.

please take your time to think about what YOU want to do next, its all about you now, not about him.

take care

Firstly thanks for all your messages of support & advice. I talked to my parents & a friend who were very understanding & also reasoned with me that it might not be an affair. My OH is not very confident in social situations & very defensive when confronted. Maybe it's because every time we're alone I bring up 'let's talk' & he doesn't want a confrontation. It's possible but i know it still doesn't explain why he's suddenly changed towards me.

Later that night he came home from work (he didn't see dc's cos he was home late). So we talked to each other about how the relationship has become what it has. He elaborated a bit on why he's unhappy. He's recently lost his business & has had go go back to work for someone else, he's working 12 hrs a day, money is very tight. I've stopped him playing football (I haven't I just asked him not to play for the rest of the season as I was concerned my ds1 would be bored of constantly seeing me with ds2 & he could take him out etc. As I had a c-sec & also to generally help out, plus its not just a game of football, he leaves the house at 9 & comes back at 3:30, i wanna have family time). I asked him why he didn't kiss ds2 last night & he said cos u made a big deal of it. I didn't, I said 'daddy kiss ds2 goodnight' & when he said no I walked off.

He wasn't happy I'd accused him of seeing someone else. But then said maybe he should cos we never have sex (WTF), well no we haven't had sex since I got pregnant with ds2 & quite frankly we're not going to either cos at this moment I'm hurting so bad that this is happening he's almost repulsing me. He that I've changed since having the kids, he's still young (33) he wants a life. He says we'll just have to get on with it. Obviously I understand we need other things in life but where is his family in his priorities? He didn't open up much & wouldn't go into any detail, um so it all comes down to football & sex??!! Hmmm I'm not sure this is all of what's going on. My instinct says there's more to it. I don't want to go on about his phone cos I want to get hold of it one day. He's not on fb & he doesn't use the computer & I've got access to his email. Nothing untoward there. But obviously he has his phone where he can access Internet. I asked him if he was depressed & he said no. I'm not saying I'm blameless, I know I've nagged about chores & children but he constantly needs to be told to do things otherwise nothing gets done including getting ds1 ready (should be old hat by now, no?) All in all nothing conclusive & he didn't fill me with confidence about us working through this (we are engaged at the moment). I don't want to be a single mum, the thought terrifies me but like someone posted earlier I'm doing everything at the moment anyway! I'm fed up of feeling like this!!

Trust your instincts - I agree there is more to it.

What concerns me is this:

But then said maybe he should cos we never have sex

He is already giving reasons why he should have an affair - cheaters usually go through a stage where they justify having an affair and he has already reached that stage.

Other red flags are his defensiveness and nitpicking - trying to put the blame on you for his "unhappiness". Ask yourself why he isn't trying to help you around the house, trying to improve your sex life and investing time in his family?

I think next time you ask him if he is cheating, you need to ask him to hand over his phone there and then.

MadAbout has said everything I was going to.

Only you know if the relationship is worth fighting for, but both of you need to work at it, not just you.

I don't think he will hand over the phone, he'll probably start some rant about how unhappy he is that she doesn't trust him.

Sorry to hear things aren't getting better op, you don't deserve this, you should be enjoying your tiny baby.

If he refuses to hand over the phone, then this will tell OP what she is suspecting all along.

An innocent man would be bewildered and will want to do everything to reassure his partner. Instead this man is defensive, distant and critical...

In a good relationship, there should be full transparency, no secrets and certainly no phone guarding.

Can you get hold of the phone in the middle of the night when he's asleep?

I would guess that the phone is now password-protected, if it wasn't before, and that even if not, any incriminating texts/emails/calls on it will have long since been deleted.

I know what a good man should be doing and how he should be acting at this point in time & I'm so sad that my OH is not being this. I was thinking of getting his phone at night but he sleeps on a camp bed in ds1 room as I'm feeding in the night and he doesn't want to be disturbed. Also he charges it & it makes a noise when u take the charger out. While I was writing this, he's just announced that he was going to his mums to pick up money & a charger & clothes he left there from Sunday night. He's also taken a DVD round to a mates who wants to borrow it. We've just talked about costs for the christening & he could hardly look at me in the face. Now he's off like a shot! Hmmm I'm so suspicious, I wish I could hire a PI, I just wanna know the truth now.

Call his mum and tell her to ask him to grab some milk on the way home...

Ohh good idea Xales.

This just gets better, yesterday a close family member offered my OH 4 tickets to a corporate event that were provided by a client of family member. Normally he would've jumped at the chance. The clause was that he brings 2 minors with him & no one else. OH was up for it yesterday. But said he'd give a defiant answer to me last night, he didn't & when I went in to the room he was asleep (although I think he was pretending). Anyway I asked him this morning if he's going cos FM needs to know & he said no! Just plain no. So I phoned FM & told them. Later on OH storms into room while I'm with ds & starts ranting on how funny it is that my FM offers tickets & I'm keen for him to go & when other person has offered him tickets I don't want him to go blah blah. This is not true btw, he's always gone to events but last time he did I was heavily pregnant & wanted him to come home asap cos I got unbelievably exhausted looking after ds1. And it turns out he went back to his mates house instead so I was phoning him to come home). So he's continued to rant/argue/snipe in front of ds that he's just working class scum who doesn't know how to behave (in retaliation to FM asking him to take minors & no one else - nothing was said about him being un able to behave). He carries on about this & then he says well fuck you I'm going out to watch it on my own, and I'm gonna stay out. All the while I've remained calm & said what about spending time with ds & he says oh yeah cos I'm such a bad father who doesn't do anything blah blah! I'm fuming but I held it down, I think this irritated him.

Anyhow again he announces he's gotta go to the bank & I told him to take ds1 but he pissed about so much that he left at 12 (ds1's lunchtime) & normally I would've said go on your own but I told him to take ds1 (he's had a snack).

I've been hurled verbal abuse & argued with when I have done nothing to warrant that behaviour. Something is very wrong here. I want him to leave but I don't want to do it, I don't want to give him the satisfaction. This is a special month for me & we have family over & I'm gutted that he is doing this now.

I'm so, so sorry you're going through this. It sounds horrendous.

I've read the whole thread and I do have to be honest and say that judging on the fact you've given, his behaviour screams affair.

I know you don't want to be the 'bad guy' and throw him out. But I don't think you have a choice. You'll feel a million times better and be able to think so much more clearly once you don't have to deal with this shit day in day out.