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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

Toxic Overload. Aarghhhh.

45 replies

twinkletwinkleoldbat · 27/05/2012 11:08

This may well be just a 'getting it off my chest' post, so apologies if it gets long. I guess what I'm really looking for is validation. Here goes anyway.
My parents are classic toxic parents. Growing up, my brother was allowed to kick, scratch and punch me well into our teens, to the point where the PE teachers saw the scars and started asking questions about my home life. Fast forward to now, when I have three dcs. Brother has always mocked my ds - his accent, his hobbies etc (he's only 10 now) and ignored my two dds. To my mother he can do no wrong. She buys the dcs presents at Xmas and birthdays and writes his name on them. My dcs stayed with their grandparents last year, all seemed ok, but weeks later my ds broke down and told me that his uncle had pushed him. I asked how hard, and he demonstrated - very violently. I tackled my mother about this and she denied, denied, denied, called me nasty and a liar, then said "he was only restraining him!" My ds has never ever needed to be restrained - he is a gentle, sensitive kid.
To cut a long story short then, I don't want my brother in my house ever again. We've never had a relationship as adults, and I regret exposing my dc to him. Next week the toxics will want to come and see my dd on her birthday and I suspect they will spring the brother on me. I want to tell them he is not invited. I think they will bring him anyway as they do not respect me as an adult. If this happens my dh has said he will take them outside, so the children can't hear, and ask my brother to leave. I am very very stressed about the prospect of all this. They have form for creating scenes on my children's birthdays (narcissists too!) I know I haven't given the full story, but am I justified in saying "my house, my rules" on this occasion?
Thanks if you got to the end of that!

OP posts:

tipp2chicago · 27/05/2012 11:09

Yes, "my house, my rules" is definitely appropriate.

fuzzpig · 27/05/2012 11:12

Shit I have no advice (only empathy) but that is horrible and you would be entirely right to ban him.

IME, a parent failing to protect their child from harm can be worse than the harm itself :(

Xales · 27/05/2012 11:12

Do your children gain anything from having any of these people?

They can want to come as much as they want. You don't have to let them or even be in if they ignore you and cime.

What do any of you gain?

janesnowdon1 · 27/05/2012 11:19

You are totally justified but I understand how difficult and stressful it can be standing up to toxics. If your mother and/or brother decide to flounce off or say they will sever contact with you, be brave and let them - you will be relieved in the end to have less. Do not expose your DC to their toxic behaviour (or until they can behave themselves).

Think about what a good life you now have for yourself with Dh and lovely DC. Your brother sounds like he has never grown up and is a total loser and still entralled to your DM - you have escaped, don't go running back or taking your Dc there.

BabeRuthless · 27/05/2012 11:30

How about ringing them in advance & explaining your feelings again? Tell them firmly but politely that if they bring your brother you and DH will immediately ask them all to leave.

You know how they'll react to that better than me, but it might do the trick. Best of luck, sounds like you're doing a brilliant job with your kids

WinkyWinkola · 27/05/2012 11:33

How old is your brother? Does he have special needs?

I would never leave my dcs alone with him again.

In fact, I would just not see them again.

our mother allowed your brother to damage you as a child. That in itself is hideous enough and it's happening again to your ds. You may find that you are allowing it to happen by seeing your wider family.

Sallyingforth · 27/05/2012 11:35

Of course you are justified!!!!

It IS your house and they ARE your rules. You choose who comes in.

You should make it very clear to them in advance that he is not welcome and that your DP will not let him in the front door. You don't need to give reasons - they already know why and any explanation will only lead to any argument.

tartyflette · 27/05/2012 11:50

Are your parents fully aware of just how violent your brother was towards you when you were young? Tell your parents you will never expose your children to the possibility of harm like this, so if that means banning him from your house, that's how it will be. And that if he ever lays a finger on them again you will involve the police. (Your brother had control and anger issues and needs help, btw)

tartyflette · 27/05/2012 11:51

has control and anger issues, I meant.

ChangeAngel · 27/05/2012 11:56

I've been dealing with some very similar issues (abusive brother whose childhood violence towards siblings and cousins was tolerated, excused and defended by our mother) and know how it feels.

I agree with others that you have to cut him off completely from your children (and preferably yourself). Physically or psychologically, someone like your brother can do them nothing but harm and its your duty as a parent to protect them.

If your parents disagree, they are the ones being unreasonable, not you. 'Your house, your rules' is the way to go. If they try to twist reality, don't get too hung up on trying to justify and explain yourself.

Remember what you felt when you were a child and your parents failed to protect you from him. Don't let it happen to your own children.

CailinDana · 27/05/2012 11:59

Your brother physically abused you all through your childhood, and your parents colluded in it. Now your brother has assaulted your son. How far do these people have to go before you stand up for yourself?

Why would ever want to be around them?

MaBumble · 27/05/2012 12:25

You are being totally reasonable. You are an adult, your responsability is to your son. If they don't like it, tough - don't come around at all.
Your brother sounds truly awful, poor you!

MaBumble · 27/05/2012 12:29

Oh and I would also let them know that if they do try to foist him on you, if it grows unpleasant you will have no hesitation contacting the police. This is violence towards a child by an adult.

Don't be afraid here, you are in auchincloss stronger position than you realise - assuming that you patents do want to keep contact with their grandchildren.

MaBumble · 27/05/2012 12:30

auchincloss = a much
Stupid iPhone

Original poster

twinkletwinkleoldbat · 27/05/2012 14:52

Thank you so much for the replies, and for understanding how hard this has been. I've come a long way since this incident made me grow a backbone, but still have a long way to go before I'm mentally free of their influence. CailinDana you hit the nail on the head - I have never stood up for myself but I need to stand up for my dc. If I stand by and condone this happening to my ds, I feel I am failing as a parent. If this was any other adult I would have gone to the police.

My brother is 32 or 3 (oh god, I don't even know) and has no special needs. He is just a very damaged and disfunctional man-child who has never as far as I know had a loving relationship with anyone. tartyflette he really really needs help but I can't be the one to say it.

The most sinister aspect of all this is how my parents tried to cover it up. I would love to cut them out of my life for ever but I think the guilt and fear I would feel all the time would impact on my life far more than the occasional visit from them. The children get NOTHING from them except Xmas and birthday gifts. I feel like I owe them some kind of 'relationship' with the children, which is why I let them come over, but last time my dad ended up storming out of the house for a piffling reason.

janesnowdon1 thank you, I am very fortunate in my lovely (chosen) family.

None of my birth family will ever be left alone with my dc again.

OP posts:

Thumbwitch · 27/05/2012 15:01

SOOO glad you have a supportive DH. Let him deal with them and if it means they never come near you again then I'd cheer, tbh.

Your brother sounds vile - and your parents are shocking. Your children do NOT need toxic people like this in their lives; you own them nothing and you owe more to your children to keep them safe from this bunch of horrors.

Please let your DH deal with it and I hope they stay away. They add nothing good to your life, nor your DCs' lives.

WinkyWinkola · 27/05/2012 15:01

You owe them nothing. They didn't protect you and they won't protect your children from that damaged man.

something2say · 27/05/2012 15:06

When there's an elephant in the living room, it can take one person to leave, and then return - and see it for what it is.

You are not wrong for saying how it is.

What happens after that, who knows until you do it.

I did it and got left with nothing. That has left a wound. But the wound does not fester. There are no new pokes to it. Nothing new ever happens with the elephant, it is out of my life now. The wound remains. Factor that in, and tell them to get stuffed. Good luck xx Your hb sounds great btw. Just what you want. My fellas always stood up for me with my folks too. I loved them all the more for it and always will remember their loyalty.

RandomMess · 27/05/2012 15:10

I would arrange to go out on your dc's birthdays from now on to ensure they cannot ever turn up and ruin it again.

You do need to cut them out of your lives, they bring you nothing but angst but that is a decision you need to make for yourself. Titles mean nothing being a biological grandparent does not bring rights or responsibilties your dc will not miss them - merely perhaps miss the idea of wonderful grandparents, a role they will never fulfill.

bringbacksideburns · 27/05/2012 15:10

They have a habit of creating scenes on the Birthdays of your children?

Uninvite them this once. Get your dh to tell them you have changed your plans.
Also he can reinforce that your brother is not welcome on any future visits.

Sounds awful

Original poster

twinkletwinkleoldbat · 27/05/2012 15:22

You are all right, I know this and am completely deluding myself. I am allowing a few remembered happy times from childhood to blind me to how completely mad these people are. All my friends refer to them as 'the crazies' or 'the insaniacs' - they must be so frustrated with me. My fear is that my dad will start some kind of court proceedings if I stop him seeing my dc. But then I don't suppose the law would look too kindly on the whole assault-by-dodgy-uncle issue!
I am having my dd's party the weekend after and they don't know about it - this is my way of fobbing them off I guess. The party will be full of friends and my lovely inlaws and I just want everyone feeling relaxed.

OP posts:

Thumbwitch · 27/05/2012 15:29

What on earth kind of court proceedings do you think your father could a) start and b) win??
They might threaten it, but they won't get away with it!
Grandparents, afaik, have no legal rights to grandchildren - and you have a great defence anyway, even if they did manage to find someone cracked enough to take their case!

Original poster

twinkletwinkleoldbat · 27/05/2012 15:34

Thumbwitch you're right. I need to get out of the habit of being scared of them. I'm nearly 40 fgs! It seems grotesque to make them choose between me and their son, but they seem hell bent on forcing this.

OP posts:

something2say · 27/05/2012 15:36

If the children are older than 11, their wishes will be taken 100% into consideration - we do / we don't want to see the grandparents.

Younger than that, and it slides down the percentage scale.

They may feel guilty for saying they don't want to, or feel they must say they don't want to, or they actually want to see them, with someone there to make sure it is safe. They may want to receive birthday gifts and cards or talk on the phone, or change their mind when they get older.

The principles here therefore are -

You do not have to suffer abuse.
Let the children have their family rels the way they want them to be.
You stay safe no matter what and that includes emotionally.

Thumbwitch · 27/05/2012 15:39

Have you been on the Stately Homes threads at all? You'll find lots of people in similar case to you, who have had to deal with this kind of shit from their family all their lives - it's apparently a great place for support, especially if you do decide to cut them out completely (which I think you should in all honesty). I only say apparently because I'm not on those threads but I know they're often recommended as a good place to go for further support. :)

LOTS of support will be available for you if you do decide to cut them out - and it does sound like you need to, for all your sakes.

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