"Cultural differences" and borderline rudeness.

[Maghribia]

Don't usually venture onto this board but could do with advice from wise MNers!

Am in bed next to dp at the moment, he's snoring loudly while I'm wide awake as I have been for last 2 hours worrying about last night's "exchange of words".

Written down it sounds petty but it is actually starting to really grate. Dp more often than not replies to things I say in a sarcastic manner or "well, obviously" tone and last night he did it once too many (to a shop assistant actually not me) and so I asked him if he knew how rude he sounded.

His response (as it has been when mentioned before) is that it's due to "cultural differences" - I'm Moroccan educated in the uk and he's from a northern european country (don't want to give too much info just in case it outs me, he knows I use MN) that prides itself on "directness". He says that he thinks we are rude because we talk fast and flap our hands, don't give personal space, talk loudly on phone and that it's all a matter of perspective.

The thing is I know other people see him as rude sometimes, for example yesterday a woman heard him answer me rudely and said to her friend "what a catch, I wish he was my husband" in a humorous sarcastic way iykwim.

Speaking of humour, we don't share it and he never laughs with me.

He is loving sometimes as is always the way and insists I am "the one" but nights like last night make me wonder!

He does sound rude, and even more important as if he thinks he is always right? Does he ever say sorry? Does he respect you and your opinions? Does he try to fit in with you, or does all change have to be made by you?

Do you know anyone from his cultural background, how do they perceive him?

Actually I don't know why I wrote borderline, rudeness would have done.

I know a couple of his mates from there and they too talk in that way, in fact I try not to mix with them. He has a female friend from home who is very sweet but we don't know each other well enough for her to comment.

It's the fact he never admits he's wrong that drives me nuts - just says I'm making a fuss (in fact I am really not a naggy shouty type and am normally scared all hell will be let loose) or counters it with some silly comment like "well your dad was rude when he just reached for the salt". You see? So petty!

And always correcting my English in this sanctimonious way in front of people, comments like "they are shocked to see a moroccan speaking english" (?!)

Usually when I've had enough he's then lovely for a few weeks.

"Speaking of humour, we don't share it and he never laughs with me."

Regardless of the rest that would be a red flag to me!

DH and I fight and he is always right, but we can always defuse the situation with a shared joke or dreadful pun and disintegrate into a fit of giggles.

Does it really matter whether it is "cultural differences" or he is an arse? It sounds like you feel disrespected and frustrated. Is there a reason you are hanging on to this relationship?

Yes, we have been ttc for years, I have pcos and all sorts of problems in that area and have just started on clomid. Didn't want to go into detail about that as didn't want to be flamed.

Personally I don't think it is cultural differences, I think rudeness is rudeness, he is the one always using that term.

He is an arse isn't he? Or am I just upset? Not sure where to go from here.

Maghribia, Startail is right, if you can't have a laugh with someone it's going to be very hard work with the added pressure of a family. Humour more important that sex in my opinion.

Tbh if you two can't laugh together, it doesn't bode well for the future, imo.
And, tbh, the sarcastic way of speaking reminds me of my EA ex. Nowt to do with cultural differences, that, just being mean and liking to feel superior.

Do you love him?

'Cultural differences' aside, how can you live with someone who belittles your background and doesn't laugh at the same things as you? If someone's making you feel unhappy that way, it doesn't matter if he's from Finland or Finsbury.

And why does he think it's shocking to see Moroccan speak English? FFS.
He sounds quite horrible, actually.

I think the cultural differences is an excuse. I don't believe a whole country is as rude as he sounds. Dh said something similar. haas old rarely say please or thank you to his family, felt awkward about it and put that down to culture. It embarassed me, The cultural issue was bollocks, and he did learn eventually, with training

Another vote for shared sense of humour here, I couldn't stay with a man who didn't find the same things funny as me. Only thing that kept us sane when ddtwins were little and extremely hard work.

Damn iPad, - hated to say please or thank you.

My Dh is quite rude sometimes. It can be a cultural thing. He's oblivious and mortified when I point it out. That's the difference. If you point it out and he says 'well you are all wrong to take it that way' it does indicate he's a bit of a git. Whereas if he is apologetic and tries not to behave that way and/or apologises to the people involved, I think it's more understandable.

Yes, this doesn't strike me as cultural differences as it does him being a gigantic tosser. And sarcasm isn't directness, it's actually the opposite of it. (I should know, I am always being sarcastic).

It sounds like the only person who's 'shocked' to find 'a Moroccan' speaking English is him.

What are his good points? Why are you with him?

He sounds horrible and I would be wary of having a baby with him.

No. He sounds rude.

My husband is from Kenya. When we first met, he had a way of talking that I did not like - and since we were living here and not there, the onus was upon him to change to fit in with the way of speaking generally accepted in the country he's living in!!

Things like I'd ask him if he wanted a coffee and he'd say "I don't mind". Yes, thank you or no, thank you are the acceptable bloody responses

please and thank you were conspicuous in their absence.

Nothing major, nothing earth shattering, just little things that didn't fit and came across as rude.

He changed them. He recognised the importance of how you are seen by the people in the place where you are living and particularly those you are close to! Now he always says please and thank you (and notices it in those of his friends and family back home who don't!)

So I don't buy the whole 'cultural' thing as a reason why someone can't change - even if their intention is not to be rude, if they have half a brain they can grasp the fact that rudeness is in the eye of the beholder.

But, tbh, he just sounds sarky and pig ignorant to me, playing the culture card.

Is it possible if you translated what he said 'well obviously' back to his language it might be perfectly fine?

Only saying this because in some cultures they can sound like they are 'barking instructions' when they say it in English.

Ps not defending him at all!!! Just trying to run with th cultural differences argument!

Oops cross posted. I'm foreign. I think I've adapted.

'Cultural differences' or not it sounds like you are on a hiding to nothing with this guy.

My friend's DH was very similar and she put a lot of that down to 'cultural differences' until it degenerated to him slapping her in front of their two small daughters.

At that point she realised he was just a prat and is now in the process of divorcing him.

Thank you so much for the input everyone.
This just confirms all the doubts I've been having and I'm glad I posted since I can't discuss it much in RL.

Drcrab, I think you are right re direct translation but as you and others said, it would be ok if he tried to adapt or at least acknowledged the rudeness.

"I don't mind" is a typical response of his after being offered something, also "I don't care" or "if you like". Very familiar.

I don't think he'll ever change tbh.

He could if he wanted to. My husband did. There's no physical barrier to change. The only reason he doesn't is he doesn't want to.

"I don't mind/care/if you want" and my all time favourite "it's ok" used to drive me up the wall. I took to saying look arseface you're not doing me a favour by allowing me the honour of making you a cup of tea (or whatever), I am offering to do something nice for you, show some bloody manners!"

He got it in the end. He understood that the dance is different here There's no reason on earth that your partner can't. well, other than he doesn't want to. My husband CARED that I found it rude and that it was generally considered rude. That mattered enough to want to change it.

I'm sure you've adapted beautifully, drcrab. I know it's weird. It's like learning a sub level of the language

When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

I assume you live in the UK and interact with mainly British people, therefore surely the expectation is that you conform to our societal norms?

You don't sound like you like him very much, by the way, and he sounds very disrespectful of you

Hecate, that's it EXACTLY - and as you say the difference is your dh changed out of respect for you.

I'm really feeling fed up. He doesn't realise how upset I am. He woke up about half an hour ago and moaned how tired he was, then started touching me (saying "nice body") then went to the shower leaving water everywhere as usual!! I just went into the bathroom and he rolled eyes and said "still on the phone?" Well yes its not like I'm going to just sit around watching you sleep or every move is it!

For what it's worth I speak 3 languages and no one has ever expressed "shock" at english being one of them so not sure why he says these things, just to be an arse probably

I don't want to moan but am dreading the day

are you happy? Being with him, I mean? Do you love being with him? Is it great? Do you feel loved? Cherished? Important?

If not, why are you there?