Do I stay with him?

[Nik26]

To be honest, I think I'm going to answer my own question here.

I have been with my OH for nearly 10 years. We meet at uni and the first year was just a bit of fun (on both parts) but we realised we had fallen in love. We ended the relationship (as you do) and spent the next three months moping. We ended up back together and I'd like to say, stronger than ever.

After 5 years we move in together and we just loved being together -OH was just starting up his own company and was very busy.....my career was taking longer to take off than planned but basically we were happy.

We didn't really talk about marriage or getting engaged although we would joke about it around the family at Xmas etc...we were just happy as we were.

After two years living together his business was doing well. He used to ask me to come to his business premises and help sort out a few bits as he wanted to get me more involved in his work. But I had a full time job and it just didn't happen. One day (just before we went to visit my family some 3 hours away) he needed to go to work and finish a few odd jobs. I went with him and his dad was there also (business partner). As they were distracted I starting sorting through some of the paperwork for him.

That's when I found it.

A letter from CSA regarding his son.

I felt like my head was going to explode. It all went blurry.....I can remember the date of birth and realised that the date h was before we had meet.....so he hadn't cheated on me but that meant he had a 7 year old son!!! My world collapsed and the next few days were unbearable. We were both in tears, I told him I couldn't get past it.

In the aftermath it felt like the final defence barrier had broken down - he was visabilly more relaxed with me and open. After a couple of weeks I decided to work through it with him. We discussed what would happen if his son came looking for him in a few years etc. We decided to get engaged to show our committment to each other (I know, I know, but at least I didn't demand a baby to compensate!). We have now been engaged for 3 years and everything has been going well. We recently bought a house together and were feeling very positive about the future.

I mentioned to him that I was booking a visit to a wedding venue as I wanted to get on with the wedding now we had bought a house (was always the plan). Anyway, it now transpires that he never wants to get married. But he wants to stay engaged.

Seeing this in black and white makes me feel so stupid but please bear with me......I feel that I stuck with him 3 years ago because he was showing a massive committment to me and now it's never going to happen. I feel stupid as my partners/grandparents etc keep asking about the wedding. I think my mistake was making things work three years ago. I clearly haven't forgiven or forgotten it.

Selfish warning: (I am being honest here) I feel that he has a blood tie with his son and I'm just a girlfriend. The point was that as his wife I would be a 'proper' part of the family.

Ladies (and men) I am SOOO sorry for epic post and if you have read it all I thank you. I really would like to hear opinions as I can not speak to anyone about this in real life.

So sorry you are in distress. My main worry would be that he never told you about the son and the csa payments - he had his son before he met you, so why the secrecy when you have been together so long? This lack of openess emotionally and financially would be what bothered me most and of course the way it now seems he is not as commited to the relationship as in the past.

It is time to sit down and have a frank discussion - suggest couples counselling to work through the issues, if he is willing. Does he want to let you go but feels you are to enmeshed with his family ?(this happened to mel after 6 years of living together). You need answers.

He probably should have owned up to the son when he first met you but young people at uni don't always make intelligent decisions when it comes to relationships and, the longer it goes on, the more awkward it gets to spill the beans. I don't think you should see the son as a threat or think that being a wife puts you in any stronger position than you currently are. He has no relationship with his son so the 'blood tie' is pretty tenuous.

The reluctance to commit may be connected to this secret or it could just be that you want different things. That, to me, would be the bigger question. Do you want the same things? Are you the same people that you were when you met? Do you feel the same about each other or is it just that the music has stopped, you're all getting on a bit, you fancy having a family, and he happens to be the one sitting in the right chair?

Has he told you why he doesn't want to get married?

Why does he say he doesn't want to get married? Does he have any contact with his son?

Do you think he could be married already?

Thank you for your thoughts.

Cogito....he did say that he didn't admit to it at the time because he didn't want it to be true. I asked if he took a DNA test and he said no, because this way he can pretend it isn't his.....if he took a test and it was definitely his he would feel that he should be there for the child. Plus the mother told him she didn't want any help etc and it wasn't until 3/4 years later that the CSA made contact with him.

I always felt like we wanted the same things. I truly feel that we have 'grown' together. I personally think that he has everything he would have if we were married....so whats the point in doing it? does that make sense? We live together as if we were married -have a joint mortgage, Wills, life insurance etc so I guess the need to be legally tied isn't there for him. I can't help thinking that there must be an underlying reason why he doesnt want to marry me? He doesn't want to break up...or even end the engagement so it can't be me? Can it??

Janesnowdon 1 - totally agree with you re the lack of openess......I think we are completely enmeshed with our families etc and I have considered that this morning whilst trying to decide what to do. I am breaking up with the whole family if this ends! But he doesn't want to let me go....or so he says.......

You need to talk it all through with him. Not everyone wants to get married, and his feelings are valid but he needs to explain them to you rather than just expecting you to put up with the situation. When you've got an explanation, maybe then you can decide whether to stay or go. However, it's never a good idea to frame it as 'If you won't marry me, I'm off', because a lot of the time a man who is basically lazy but with one eye open to other possibilities will marry you, but every time you row it will be 'Well you wanted to get married, I didn't.' ANd men like that sometimes have affairs on the grounds that they were 'forced' into marriage and are therefore entitled to do what they like.

How deceitful!! I'd ditch him, as he obviously doesn't want to get married, and you do. But, I wouldn't have agreed to a proposal knowing he'd lied so massively.

Cluffyfunt I did wonder that! But he had only had one relationship before me and she is still friends with us all still!

Confusedgypsy & Mama - no he can't explain why he doesn't want to get married! And thats what is so frustrating! He doesn't have contact with son.

Well in my book he's already a scum bag for having no contact with his son. At least he's paying maintenace but that might be only because of the CSA.

I think it was unfair of him to suggest an engagement if he never had any intentions of marrying you. An engagement is prior to marriage, not in place of it. That said, buying a house together is also a big commitment, so it seems he loves you and wants to be with you, simply that he doesn't want to marry.

You need to understand the reasons why he doesn't want to marry and decide if you can live with that.

Although I can sort of understand your feelings re being a wife making you a proper part of the family, it doesn't really mean anything. His son is linked by blood and isn't a part of his life anyway. So right now, you are his family.

Hi Nik

Marriage can be the deal breaker for some women. For others it isn't important. Your partner was wrong to ask you to marry him and get engaged if he had no intention of ever marrying you. It should of been made clear that being engaged is the commitment your partner was making.

It is possible to have a long term committed relationship without marriage although marriage protects your best interests financially. Long term commitment without marriage all depends not the couples mindset and you need to know just how committed your partner is.

You are not just a "girlfriend". He has bought a house with you, he has been with you for years... the only commitment he has to his son is payment via CSA (from what I've gathered). It shouldn't be a competition but his lack of honesty has made you feel like this and you need to know that he sees you as more than a girlfriend.

Talk to him, ask him what he wants from life, why he doesn't want to get marriage.

Longdistance - yes I know. I feel so stupid.

Solidgoldbrass - very good point.

I guess I just need to talk to him about WHY he doesn't want to get married. Whenever I try and talk to him he just says 'I don't know, I don't know' like a child.

I just want him to be honest with me. Judging by the past maybe he's incapable of that.

Sorry my post is littered with mistakes... Predictive text drives me crazy!

Some people just don't want to get married I guess. It doesn't sound like he's purposely doing it to hurt you.

Does he know how much you want to get married? And is marriage a must for you?

In regards to his son, yes it was a massive lie, but, again, I don't think he did it to hurt you. Rather, he was probably afraid you would leave him, especially as you were so young when you met.

I think you need to decide if marriage is a must for you. If it is, you need to tell him that and move on. If it isn't, then I would forget about it and be happy. It sounds like you have a good relationship.

Thank you for all your comments. I guess it's all stuff I should know deep down but sometimes I need to hear it from others. Hardly anyone in real life knows about his son. Now we are at the age where a lot of friends are having children and I think they would be really disgusted at him for 'giving' his up if they knew. Although, that isn't really the right word as the mother did not want him involved either. Essentially he could have fought for that though, so not really an excuse.

Did he ask "will you marry me?" because if he did, you are not a fool for thinking that he actually wanted to?

He had a secret son, who he only told you about because he was bang to rights. Who knows how long that would have stayed secret?

At the end of the day, though,irrespective of any of the above, if you want different things, neither of you will be 100% satisfied if you stay together.

Before posting I read some of these threads and some woman are going through such a lot of shit, my heart breaks for them.

To the outsider my relationship is 'perfect'. And it isn't a lie -we don't 'act' happy for the sake of it, we are! But the whole marriage thing over the last couple of days has made me very unhappy. I guess I feel cheated out of a decent proposal because of the way it was done and now I'm not going to get the wedding either....

I do feel very selfish when I see the problems that other women are facing - I hope I don't seem selfish, it's just all relative I guess. This may not seem a big problem to some people (I know many women have no interest in getting married either) but to me right now my 10 year relationship is on the brink and therefore it's a problem.

Again- thank you everyone for your comments, I am taking all of them on board I promise. x

I would be concerned about why he has had no contact with his son (unless he has and I misunderstood that bit). Once you had found out about his existence what was stopping him from seeing him?

It must have been a shock for you to find out he had a child. I had a friend who found out after living with someone for 3 years that he had been married (and still was, although separated)and had 6 children! That was a major shock for her, although they got past it and stayed together. I'm not sure I could cope with being with someone who could keep a wife and 6 children from me. His escuse that he was worried she wouldn't want to know him if he told her. Probably similar to your partner and after a certain length of time it would seem too late to say anything.

As for getting married, I think you are feeling insecure and feel it would make you more secure to be married. he obvioulsy doesn't feel that but I am sure he still thinks of you as family, you are engaged and living together so that is a commitment. I wouldn't give him up just because he doesn't want to get married if you are otherwise happy.

Hi ChooChoo - I assure you that was not my doing! Despite the shitty situation it isn't the childs fault and I would never have stopped him from seeing his son. I told him that I would go with him to see him if he wanted me for moral support......At the time he was refusing to acknowledge it. I am not a mother and I can't relate to the situation in that respect, he did say that he felt like a sperm donor only. I would like to broach the subject with him again....maybe he wants contact but he's scared to tell me? I should stress that I have no ill feeling at all to the child or mother obviously.

I need to do some work so probably won't get a chance to check in until later, but thank you everyone for your contributions. Has made me feel better being able to talk about it and not have it bottled up inside.

"Once you had found out about his existence what was stopping him from seeing him?"

Oh, hi. I'm your dad. Yeah. The only reason you're in existence is because I was so drunk that I couldn't put a condom on, so me and your mum had unprotected sex. Once I woke up, I was scared because I didn't want a child. I did ask if your mum wanted any financial help but she said she didn't. We haven't talked since, but when you were 4 the CSA got in contact so I paid the required amount. I've never been there for you, because I didn't want a child, and one night stands tend to not make good relationships for a child.

But now you're 7 I just thought I'd pop by and say hello!

Plenty of reasons why not, methinks....

if he took a test and it was definitely his he would feel that he should be there for the child. Plus the mother told him she didn't want any help etc and it wasn't until 3/4 years later that the CSA made contact with him.

I think he is lying.

I think he is a tosser who didnt want anything to do with the child.

I dont believe that the mother told him she didnt want any help, you are just taking his word for that.

And you want to have a family yourself with this man someday... on your own head be it. :(

The not wanting to get married is the least of your worries. What sort of man doesn't admit to anyone that he has a child or want to take a DNA test so he can keep on telling himself he doesn't need to feel or do anything for his own child other than agree to a monthly direct debit? These are HUGE red flags! It's not normal emotional maturity. The fact that he wants to remain in denial about his child and that he won't marry you sounds like he is not really capable of being a responsible adult, even if you have been together a long time; staying engaged is allowing him to kid himself he's not really in a committed relationship, just like not doing the DNA test allows him to kid himself he's not got a child he's failing. This is not a man who is going to ever be properly there for you, emotionally. And what are you going to tell your own children about this poor child, if you have your own?

Ask yourself this: think about the people whose opinions matter most to you, then ask yourself what they would think about him deceiving you about this child and having nothing to do with him? They would be disgusted and incapable of respecting or trusting him anymore, wouldn't they?

Sometimes, love is not enough...

Nik - No, I wasn't blaming you at all. And neither do I think you are selfish for asking for advice.

I was just guessing that if he felt so badly that he had to hide his child's existence from you, once you knew the truth about him, that excuse for not seeing his son is no longer valid.

I'm not sure I would ever be able to get over his lack of interest in his child - this would bother me even more than the lying about it for 7 years (which would bother me enough to leave him). The stuff about not getting married, shitty as it is to ask you then decide unilaterally that he doesn't want to - I'd count yourself lucky and find someone with more integrity.

This:
"if he took a test and it was definitely his he would feel that he should be there for the child" is crap, sorry. What a cop out. So by not doing the test he doesn't have to be there for his child.

21YrOldMan - there are ways and means of manning up and being a better person, even after being a tosser for the first 7 years of his child's life.

if the child is only 7 and was born before op met Dp then how is their relationship 10 years old?