Has anyone ever succeeded in making a non-talker, talk!? And what can i do about sad DP?

[makeawishnow]

My DP isn't a talker, fairly common I reckon. It is actually one of the many things I love about him in a way - my ex used to gabble on about a load of rubbish to anyone who'd listen and I enjoy spending time with the strong, silent type.

Part of the problem is that we've been together for four years now and never really "fallen out" we're both laid back and very happy together. We have both always put the other one first and been considerate to each other's needs etc. so it's been wonderful and although I knew he wasn't a talker - it didn't matter because everything was easy and breezy.

However, towards the end of last year we had some problems with his DD which have resulted in lots of heartbreaking stuff for him, for example her behaviour has become very very bad and we don't see her a lot now. His ex wife is constantly on his back and drama is only ever a text away. He changed jobs and although he likes it I know he feels trapped in the corporate rat race and would far prefer to be running a record shop or being a DJ . He's 41 so I think it's probably a fairly normal time to sit back and assess and wonder if you're missing out on something, he's a extremely passionate about music and I know he regrets not having that in his day to day life. I've also made a big decision regarding my career which will see me working less, studying and us generally having less money (which he has said he is in full support of). He told me a month or so ago that he is unhappy, not with me, but with life in general. I think disatisfied would be the way to explain it, and I agreed that I was too (had children young, haven't seen the world, working a regular job) although to a lesser extent.

I felt for him and wanted to make it all better but there's nothing I can do and he hasn't talked about it since. I'm sure he is more withdrawn though and recently he has been spending a lot of time with a very young girl at work who I have convinced myself he prefers the company of to me (no basis other than an instinct and the fact that in my head she resembles everything that he and I don't have - world at her feet, youth and vibrancy... not that we are a pair of fossils!!).

This could be completely unfounded and sounds a bit ridiculous but for all these reasons I'm feeling very vunerable and insecure about where things are going. In November we decided to get married and everything was very exciting but it hasn't been mentioned at all in the last few months and I'm waiting on a proposal that it was agreed would happen sometime this year but looking at him right now, I can't imagine he will summonds the energy or enthusiasm for any time soon.

I tried to talk to him on Sunday after a particulalry shit weekend with his DD (probably awful timing) and said how I was feeling (not about the girl at work) and said I was sorry to ask but could he give me a bit of reassurance that his current state of mind isn't about our relationship and our life together and that he isn't deeply, deeply sad because I feel l ike I can't make him happy at the moment and I should be able to. I feel like it's a failing on my part.

His response was less than enthusisatic, he did a kind of exasperated raspberry noise with his lips, looked at the TV, shrugged and said "no, I think it's fine" I laughed (nicely) and asked if I could get something a bit more concrete and passionate and he looked at me a bit blank and said, "not sure what you want me to say". So I said I'd like him to talk to me about what is going on and reassure me that it's not me/us. I welled up and said that I was really feeling low about it and thatc what we have is too precious to let go of just because he can't talk about things. Again, he just said "no, there's nothing going on, everything's okay"

Should I just leave it now? maybe it really is okay and by rooting around I'm going to make it not okay!? But if this is the beginning of the end, or the beginning of an emotional affair, or he is really depressed - then we need to air it.

When I write it all out it sounds so bizarre... this man is supposed to be my best friend... yet here I am reaching out in a very obvious way and I'm getting nothing back. But I can't be angry at him, i love him and feel for him for what he's going through.

Has anyone ever suceeded in making a man like this talk? We are getting on fine and have the same great sex life, time on our own, good conversation etc. as we have always had - although as I say, a bit more distance I think, a tiny bit. I don't want to rock the boat too much. But I feel we are drifting somewhere...

If it's unlikely I will get him to talk, what can I do to lift the big scary cloud that's looming over us? It feels like there's an elephant in the room but I don't know what it is..?

Thanks for reading if you got this far, I know this is a really minor problem in comparison to most on this board but I do appreciate any advice.

It sounds like those adverts where the man gives the woman a little box and out pops a singing dog, thanking her for the sausages because the man is too much of a bloke to say it for himself. :)

If he was just strong and silent but otherwise a happy bunny, pottering about and smiling a lot I'd say stop asking for reassurance and judge him by his actions. However 'strong and silent' in this case is just an excuse for 'distant and CBA' and I think he is being rather self-indulgent. We all go through problems etc., but we have no right to inflict bad moods on the people we live with. That's the part that's emphatically not OK. Rather than asking how you can make him happy, therefore, (impossible usually) tell him that you are very unhappy about living with a sorty of grumpy Easter Island statue... and then ask what he's going to do about it.

Thanks cognito, on one hand, I think you?re right (and you made me laugh at least!) I?m dealing with all the crap over his daughter as well, and I too would rather be doing something I?m passionate about. Although I kind of am making steps in that direction which I feel pretty guilty and self-indulgent about. But then I think about what a good person he is and I think if this is his fault then I?d take that over many other things.
I?m just scared about pushing him too far, or not pushing him far enough, and what we have flying out the window while we?re not looking.
He?s sent me some jokey texts today (is out on a work conference with the girl - the girl who is probably nothing like I imagine although, I do have the instinct of an animal) and I asked if he fancied going away for the weekend to which he replied that he would. So maybe that will provide a good environment to tackle things in a non-overly-confrontational way.

If he's more comfortable texting or IM-ing, talk to him that way perhaps?

Not so silent with the young girl at work then?

Yes, be careful that 'strong silent type' doesn't actually translate into 'takes for granted and can't be arsed'

You say you have the instincts of an animal, I would listen to them. Very rarely do our gut instincts lead us astray.

If you are feeling 'insecure', that there is 'distance' between you, that you are 'drifting', there is a 'scary cloud', an 'elephant in the room' - these are all words/phrases you use in your OP - then there is something wrong. And you are entitled to find out what has gone wrong - don't be satisfied with his lame responses (thus far).

He may not be cheating or having a EA. He may be having a mid-life crisis. He is probably stressed over his daughter's behaviour, but he is incredibly lucky to have you in his life - you are clearly a kind, understanding woman.

Please don't waste time explaining away his behaviour or second guessing yourself. Don't wait for the weekend away to get to the bottom of what has changed between you.

I won't try to defend his behaviour because I know that I don't beleive he is a bad partner or a bad person, he just has faults like all of us do. The girl in question is coming to us for dinner later in the week so I will wait until after that before mentioning all of this to him again. Then I?ll be armed with all the info I possibly can be. I will know the instant that she walks in if my instincts were founded or not. And if they are not then it is a less serious conversation, although still one that needs to happen as she may be a red-herring in all of this and with or without her the situation remains. I don?t believe for a second that he is or would cheat. It?s more the thought, as gopoldark says, that if he is being cheerful for her and when he spends time with his work colleagues, then I want the same from him at home. Using time with her as an escape from reality and as his ?fun-time? is in my opinion an affair.
Maybe I am second guessing too much, I love him very much and I want to be understanding of what he?s going through, not pile more on top. But you are all right, I need to be happy too and I think I could be if we could just give it all a good airing.

You sound wise :)

I'm not offering my opinions on this, as I've had nasty experiences with non-talkers and can't be unbiased. Instead I'll share what my sensible friend Ed told me when I should have listened! He said "People think silent types are strong and deep. They're not, they're either empty-headed or hiding something. You might say still waters run deep, but think about it: most of the still water you see is in a shallow puddle, isn't it?!"

I did like "Easter Island statue"

Garlic Sounds like Ed is indeed a wise old sage. It makes a lot of sense, but given that he is great in so many ways and we are a good match - lots of the same quirks, same values, enjoy doing the same things, we "get" each other (apart from at the moment!) so it's a lot to throw away due to a bad patch, and I'm no where near thinking of ending it.

I hope that's all this is; a bad patch. Maybe I'm out of practise dealing with bad patches because it's been so good. In fact I've never been convinced before that bad patches have been worth working through (in previous relationships) so the fact I'm bothering says a lot

Well, if the woman from work shows up and he suddenly transforms from Mr Easter Island into Mr Charmingly Loquacious, you will have grounds for demanding he's like that the rest of the time...

Ha ha! I?ll give him a bit of wriggle room for the fact that he is extremely polite and would be charming to anyone who came for dinner ? there are subtle things though aren?t there, that I will pick up on and sniff out like a basset hound.

Would you invite your EA for dinner with your partner?! This tells me that if she does represent what I think she does, he isn?t aware of it. Which is kind of disappointing as I?d expect a bit more self-awareness. Anyway, mustn?t get worked up about something that hasn?t happened yet? will see how it pans out. He will be late home tonight, and I have an evening meeting tomorrow ? so no time to talk until after Thursday anyway.

1. He doesn't see much of his daughter anymore because of 'her bad behaviour'

1. When his ex wife contacts, it's 'drama'

1. He spends alot of time with a younger woman at work and your instincts are screaming at you that something is wrong

1. You are in tears trying to ask him about your relationship because you are so cut up about it - and he gives you nothing in return

1. You are in bits because 'you can't make him happy'

All these things are worrrying imo. The first one the most.

I?ve not explained properly ProudAS? that?s not why he doesn?t see his daughter. There is a huge backstory and his daughter has decided not to see us anymore. Hence his upset at the moment, he wants to see her more and can?t and when she does come she is vile to all of us and it?s very tense. The story isn?t for this thread but I can assure you that there is one! Same goes for his ex-wife. But points three and four are spot on? point five I think is just a pretty natural way to feel about the person you love when they?re going through a hard time. Thanks for your input, I need to be told sometimes! But then again I have come out of three horrible relationships and each time I?ve told myself that whilst I want to be wise and I?m certainly not naïve, I don?t wish to let them harden me either.

The way you're talking OP it sounds like you are an extra in your DP's life. You are worrying so much about how he feels and yet he doesn't seem to give a hoot about how you feel. And you are reinforcing his attitude by giving him the message that you don't matter, by putting up with him pushing you out and not talking to you. You say you talked about marriage in November and now you're waiting for a proposal. So, are you supposed to just sit tight like a child, waiting for him to suddenly decide what's happening next in your life? Do you not get a say? You say you've had horrible relationships before, and you don't want to let them harden you, and I can totally understand that. But at the same time you have to stand up for yourself and say "Actually, I'm not just here to suit you, this is my life too and you don't have the right to just decide what's happening, as if I don't exist."

I'm going with the MNer who said about the "Strong and Silent" type here and believe this equates to "he's an arse"

Now, "Soft, Strong and Very Long" I will go with

Seriously though OP, he isn't what you think he is and I'd also agree with all Proud has said.

BTW I'm not saying this can't be salvaged. My DH had a real tendency to be like this - go all silent and not tell me what was wrong, say "nothing" if I tried to talk to him etc. The turning point for us came when we were talking about having children. We'd agreed a particular month to start, then when it came he backed out and decided he wanted to wait another year. I accepted that, as usual, thinking I shouldn't pressure him, and I came to terms with it. I adjusted my life plans to suit his decision, then he suddenly turned around and changed his mind. I went absolutely ballistic. I had done so much to accommodate him - moved around a lot, took jobs I didn't necessarily want to facilitate his career, waited endlessly for him to decide to get married (sound familiar?) and I think over time he got the message that he was running the show and that I would just fit in with whatever he decided. Basically it was like it was his life and I was just a bit-player in the whole thing rather than an actual partner. I gave him a very very severe talking to and I made it clear that either he would have to start respecting me as an actual person with my own plans and dreams or I would walk.

Like your DP my DH is and always was a fantastic, kind, funny person whom I loved dearly. But I still would have divorced him if he hadn't listened. Luckily he did listen and his attitude has changed hugely since then. He still slips now and again with small things - like agreeing to let his parents stay over an extra day without actually telling me - but I remind him of what we talked about and I know he would never do it again for big decisions.

Your DP needs to realise that being part of a partnership means that you can't just suit yourself any more. If he's not happy about that then he needs to consider whether he actually wants to be in a partnership or not.

Oh

The engagement thing was because we decided together that we wanted to get married and he didn?t think it was romantic enough to get engaged that way and wanted to retain the element of surprise (control?) by telling me it would happen sometime this year, but I wouldn?t know when. I didn?t think that was strange, I was quite happy about it actually as we can be quite practical and so this way meant we could be practical and decide together, but I could still have my fairytale engagement. But now things have taken a bit of a miserable turn, it?s just one more thing that is leaving me feeling insecure and wondering why, if he wants it, we don?t just do it. It?s not a money issue as I?ve told him I want simple? unless he?s saving for the ring. Possibly.

I can?t believe I am writing one of these threads. Until this year started I thought we had it all

Makeawish - I'll take your word for it re daughter. It sounds very painful and I do hope it gets resolved for everyone's sake, mainly hers.

Re point 5 - well no, not really. Sorry to speak in cliches, but you can't 'make someone happy'.

My dh is economical when it comes to emotional chats too. But he will talk to me about stuff he knows is important to me and to our relationship. Even strong, silent types can actually push themselves that little bit for a much loved partner. It is a little bit of an excuse and, those a strong silent type can quickly get the idea they can get away with basically saying or not saying exactly what they like - it's actually quite powerful.

Don't give up makeawish. I think what most posters are getting at here is that your DP's behaviour is unacceptable but also your response to it isn't right either. You seem afraid to confront him about this, and that is not a good position to be in. If there is something wrong you need to be able to say "Look, we have to talk about this," and your partner has to agree, that's the only way a marriage can survive and be healthy. Otherwise you end up with the situation you're in now, with both of you feeling unhappy and insecure.

If you do confront him, and say you absolutely must talk about this, what do you think he will say?

Thanks cal, that?s given me a bit of optimism. I guess I have just been feeling like it?s not that bad and now things are coming to a bit of a head. I feel disloyal talking about it as I am simultaneously sending him friendly text messages and when I see him tonight things will be completely normal. It doesn?t feel right when we?ve always been such a team to be talking like this.

You're not disloyal, you're trying to resolve your problems, which if anything is the opposite of disloyal.

What are your fears?

I don?t know? I don?t anticipate getting any kind of emotion from him whatsoever. Maybe if I really gave an ultimatum then I think he would get defensive and stroppy but come back an hour or so later and we?d talk? possibly? I honestly don?t know because it?s never happened in our relationship. If I go really deep then I was never allowed to confront my dad when there was a problem and neither was my Mum as he always acted wounded and took it all very personally and you ended up feeling like the one in the wrong.
My partner isn?t like my dad, but that could be where my problem lies. He isn?t unkind, he wouldn?t turn it round on me, but I do think he would give a vibe out that he was finding it icky and uncomfortable and that I was adding to his plate.

Sorry ? crossed posts, what are my fears? Hmm, that he will think I?m needy and annoying? that I will push him away if I demand too much and interrogate him... That I will get it all wrong and get upset and cry and he?ll think ?where the hell did this come from!?? and I suppose I?m also a bit afraid that I?m imagining it all?

I apologise if it sounds like I'm jumping on your words again, but saying you 'thought you had it all' is quite naive. No-one 'has it all'. I'm not sure how realistically you see relationships, or your relationship.

I'm not sure what's really going on for you but it might be that you are desperate to 'make him happy' and get married and you are not really ooking at the man himself.

It might be he is having an affair with the woman at work (btw I would snoop, snoop and snoop again) and has detached from you - conveniently shrouding this with his strong silent act.

It might be he is a great, great guy who is just absolutely allergic to discussing things and talking about feelings and needs to learn to do so. If so you need to do less pleading and walking on egg shells and more insisting, calmly, firmly and perfectly nicely, that you need to discuss things. For goodness sake if you are this unhappy he can't just ignore you and say everything's fine - it's not fine because you don't feel fine.

The whole getting engaged thing is weird in my opinoin - but I am always baffled when couples agree to get engaged but then wait to actually get engaged. So maybe it's just me.

In what way are you "demanding too much"?

Thing is, if I could even get my head around him having an affair (by which I mean a physical affair) ? which I really can?t, given that for four years I have known him as the most honest and loyal person I know ? I can?t get my head around why he would invite her round for dinner surely that would be madness. Which is what is telling me that if there is any significance to their relationship, he isn?t consciously aware of it. Or? he is aware of it and is bringing her round to quash it by bringing it in to the light somehow? but I really don?t think it?s as deep as that. I can?t snoop, I have all his passwords (he?s never been secretive) but I just couldn?t do that and I think if we went down that route I may as well end it now. I couldn?t breech his privacy like that. And anyway, he wouldn?t leave evidence so whilst finding something would be proof, not finding something wouldn?t be.

When I say ?had it all? I don?t actually mean that in the literal sense, we are all only human and of course there are ups and downs but of everyone I know, our relationship was the tightest. There was no drama or insecurity or jealousy.

What do I mean by ?demanding too much? Hmm.. I mean.. umm.. he?s his own person and who am I to keep questioning him and making him talk when he doesn?t want to? Maybe?