Is this financial abuse? What to do? LONG

[NiniLegsInTheAir]

This is a complicated issue but I really want some wise mumsnetty advice on this. Apologies in advance as I think it might result in a drip feed and is a long story. Some of you may know problems I have with NSDH and this is one of them.

NSDH and I don?t share a bank account (this is my choice as he?s very controlling with money ? I get stressed enough when he goes through his statement every month with a fine toothcomb, every month without fail he finds an outgoing he swears is fake, stresses about it for a few minutes until he realizes it?s real.

Our house still needs a lot of work so any savings I have (which are few) go into an account so I can help pay for work (although my husband gets an annual bonus which usually pays for most work). We pay different bills and at the end of the month tally it all up and whoever owes the other more pays them the difference.

Stupidly in the run up to our wedding (3 yrs ago) I got carried away with making it the ?perfect day? and spent just over £2k on credit cards. I realized what a mistake that was and tried hard to pay them off, which I finally managed last summer.

Aside from normal bills, most of my money goes on DD ? I save money there by using second hand clothes & toys, am very savvy with cheap but nutritious meals and use cheap nappies during the day.

R.e. work ? I work full-time, as does NSDH and he earns about 2k more than I do. Luckily I have a steady job in a stable market but can?t increase incomings as I don?t get overtime. NSDH?s job however is far from stable. He?s been there for 2 ½ years and his job?s been ?at risk? since pretty much the minute he started. He works a 2hr train commute away (I pay a third of the cost) and has been for plenty of interviews for jobs nearer to home but hasn?t been successful. This instability at work makes him even more careful with money. He told me recently he has £3k in savings (I have none).

As far as leisure times goes ? I don?t go to the cinema, out for drinks, out for dinners or lunches, havn?t bought any new clothes since I got my maternity wear over a year ago. I had to buy a new pair of trainers as the ones I wear everyday collapsed- but I got a new pair of Reeboks for £10 so can?t complain there. I have a haircut once every year or so.

When DD was born he set up the benefit payments to go to his account (I asked him to do it as I was still a bit shell-shocked post partum as she came early). When I was on mat leave (I had 5 ½ months and most of it on reduced pay) I paid for everything for DD, milk, nappies, toys, clothes, etc. He didn?t buy anything unless I asked him specifically if I recall. As a result I had to up my overdraft to £2.4k just to stay afloat. It wasn?t until some months later I queried why he was getting the benefits money when I was paying for everything for DD ? he fudged his answer but basically he?d pocketed the lot. Since then he now splits it 50/50. I still buy for most of her needs but am more savvy now at splitting the cost.

This was my stupid fault but when I sat down at the beginning of the year and looked at my personal budget ? I wasn?t splitting all costs with him. Like I said, I was paying for about 90% of DD?s needs, for example. Now I have actually halved everything that should be halved and he?s angry as it means he gets less money from me a month. I explained to him why that was and he?s still not happy.

Everything financial is on his terms. Example ? last October we ripped out the bathroom and have been slowly putting it back together ? plastered, new boiler, new suite, tiling, with his bonus money from last year. I?m fed up with not having a shower or proper flooring but the work has ground to a halt. If I mention that we should get a shower (over the bath) he tells me to pay for it myself as he can?t afford it. He knows about my debts and as much as I would LOVE to be able to do it all myself I can?t afford it.

I think I?m being unreasonable by wanting the bathroom finished when I know I?m asking him to contribute. At the same time, I think he?s being unreasonable by having savings when I?m struggling to get out of debt.

He hangs his bonus money over me as ?proof? that he works harder than I do. I?ve said to him many times that if I got bonuses they?d go straight into the house. He says stuff to me like ?I?m warning you that my bonus won?t be big this year so don?t expect anything.? I feel like a leeching nag. . I?m also fed up of hearing that his job being at risk is a reason for not doing things when it?s been the case for nearly 3 years.

Since I started actually halving bills properly, my overdraft has gone down by £600 (in 4 months). I?m selling anything I can on Ebay or at NCT sales and think I?m making headway but it?s soooooooo slow. I don?t trust NSDH as far as money goes. I don?t think this system is working but I don?t want a joint account.

Any thoughts? Please be gentle.

Sorry all apostrophes have come out as question marks - I wrote this in Word!

NSDH?

Not so dear husband. Sorry picked it up from the EA thread

A few points, if he is getting the child benefits then its still not really 50/50 is it. Or is it 50/50 on expenses over and above the child benefit?

I would maybe get a joint account but for all the bills only. Keep your wages in your own account but a set amount each month from each of you to cover all the outgoings. That way it is clearer who is paying what.

No it's just 50/50.

I suggested a joint account for bills, but he said we can't as the mortgage has to come from one our accounts our wages go into (his at the moment). Not sure if thats true though.

I'm really sorry, I don't know what the answer is but my instinct is to say that this isn't a great arrangement.

Why should you pay a third of his travel costs?
If you buy everything for your DD, you should be receiving the CB, not him.
Definitely have a joint account for all household Direct Debits, then you can both pay an equal amount into it each month.
That mortgage bit sounds like bollocks to me.

You need to transfer child benefit into your name to be paid into your bank account now.

I don't know if it's financial abuse or not, but I do know that I wouldn't want to live like that. We don't have a joint account as there's never been any need to bother, but all resources go into an imaginery shared pot and we work as a team.

Certainly not true for us - ours comes out of the joint account. We do exactly what titty suggests.

Ah! Thoughts are that you don't communicate well when it comes to money, the set-up is anything but fair and his 'mine, all mine!!' approach to money he earns is a) quite alarming and b) seriously hampering improving that communication.

If you've had any success in dividing up bills more fairly I'd say keep going down that road. But I would put my foot down about the monthly 'this is a bogus transaction' pantomime, the child-related benefits and any nasty comments that his bonus is proof that he contributes more to the family.

I'd normally recommend some kind of joint account to pay joint expenses but, the way you describe him, I would avoid that at all costs. Bump up your savings as soon as you have chance to. You may find, sadly, that you need them

Yh, the mortgage bit sounds like shit. Never heard of that before.

Re your child expenses, its not really 50/50 then is it. Your paying your share out of your wages whilst he is paying his out of the benefit.

Yip, i would say get a joint account and have all bills, food, house expenses, etc including child expenses come out of it. Get the child benefit paid into it as well as setting up standing orders each month from each of your single accounts to cover the rest of the outgoings.

What do you get out of this relationship now?

What are you both teaching your child about relationships here?. Two words suffice for that second question; damaging lessons. Controlling behaviours are abusive behaviours.

Why are you paying a third of his travel costs?.

This is financial abuse and its all in his favour. This is all about power and control and he wants absolute over you.

Do you see yourself still beiung with him in say a year's time?. This relationship is not and will never be equal.

Like financial abuse among the elderly, the victims of this crime are often victims of psychological abuse. Regardless, it is a form of mental abuse that causes emotional damage. Although some men are victims of financial abuse, information based from divorce cases and women's shelters tend to show that women more often than not are the victims.

Financial abuse, also referred to as economic abuse, can take many forms but the most commonly known form of abuse is designed to isolate a woman. Some women also are finding that their partner will absolve all financial responsibility leaving them in a ?do or die? scenario: she has no option but to manage all financial matters otherwise the household will financially collapse. These women also experience some isolation as their partner will needlessly spend money when there are bills to pay, leaving the woman to desperate measures trying to make ends meet. In relationships where there are children, sometimes the woman will totally neglect herself to ensure that her children are not affected by her spouse's behavior.

Signs of Financial Abuse:-

Controlling the finances.
Withholding money or credit cards.
Giving you an allowance.
Making you account for every penny you spend.
Stealing from you or taking your money.
using your assets for his personal benefit.
Withholding basic necessities (food, clothes, medications, shelter).
Preventing you from working or choosing your own career.
Sabotaging your job (making you miss work or calling constantly, etc.)

Please talk to Womens Aid; they can and will help you here.

I second what Attila says.

If you are otherwise happy with the relationship, and your NSDH is willing to agree to a more equitable arrangement, how about having both salaries and the child benefit paid into one account from which all the bills and mortgage are paid. Money for groceries and anything for the house or your DD also comes from this account. An equal amount is set aside for savings that go into a separate account for each of you. Once a month, any surplus is divided in half, which goes into your own account for spending money.

You are, as a family, wasting money paying interest on overdrafts and credit cards whilst you have savings in the bank. Either pay these off immediately, or put them on a 0% interest and pay it off before the end of the term. Money for this comes out of the joint account before the surplus is divided.

This will rely on a certain amount of trust and respect on your DH's part. Would he go to couples' counselling to discuss it?

BTW... on the mortgage. Assuming the mortgage is in joint names then the bank will be happy for the payment to come out of a joint account. Even though you don't want a joint account for very good reasons, you could easily set one up that only pays one DD each month to the mortgage lender and which only receives two deposits each month, a Standing Order each from you and your husband

Get the child benefit transferred into your account now.

He has saved 3K partially as a result of your paying 1/3 of his travel? Well that can stop right now then!

Tell him that as you are a family, your expenses should be equal. However, magically, they are not! You earn more... and yet he is the one with savings. So if he doesn't like the changes, maybe he should ponder that of all the expensive activities there are, divorce is maybe the most expensive.

Put that extra 1/3 worth of travel towards your shower. After all, it'll be YOU that is using that bathroom when you've filed for divorce and he's out and you get to keep the house because of DD.

Short answer: yes he is a financially abusive prick, worse, he must be a nasty misery guts to live with. Get shot, and you will be better off in more ways than just financially. And he knows that, which is why he will bully you to stay.

any account can pay the mortgage - eg you could have a joint account which you both pay into out of which all bills are paid

How is the relationship in other respects? If it is otherwise good (though that's hard to believe from your post) then it might be worth a final go at trying to have a proper conversation about this and getting to the bottom of his fears so you can address them fairly together.

If not - well, in that case you should probably start accounting for every transaction so that you keep all the money you're due, and can build some savings as a possible running-away fund.

Wow so many responses, sorry I was making the most of my lunch by eating out in the sun :)

I pay some of his travel costs because if he had to pay them all his wages wouldn't cover it. (again this is what he tells me, I've stupidly never checked).

I did go and look for the child benefit paperwork recently but couldn't find it - I'll ask him where it is and change it so I get the money. He did promise to set up a child account for DD when she was born but it's never happened. I'd like to set one up for her.

I need to speak to the mortgage people about changing the date our payments are paid, I've told him before that I don't think its true but he insisted it was, and lack of time has meant I havn't done anything further.

With other issues arising recently (he hit me a month ago so this is the least of our problems), right now I'm struggling to see us together in a year's time. I want to get out of debt and at least have something saved so if I need to get out altogether, I'll have a bit of money aside.

Thistle he knows about my debts but the 'this is mine, and that is yours' approach to finances in our house means he feels its ok to have savings while I have debt. And tbh, I wouldn't feel comfortable him paying them off as I know he'd hang that over my head. He won't do couples counselling but we are both getting counselling separately.

Apologies again for dripfeeding.

mooncup sorry X-post. There are a lot of issues going on, not all of them financial. I really want to get this debt paid off so I can start a savings fund (I havn't had any since we were married), so in case I need to get out, I have some money to fall back on. But my debt is coming down soooo slowly.

ok, just read your last post, and if he hit you a month ago, along with all the financial control, if I were you Id seriously be considering my options.

Do you know what, I don't care what your exact financial arrangements are...and it's very good of posters to advise you on how to sort your affairs out more fairly.

But for me that's a total red herring. This is about the bloody awful way he is treating you.

I've said this many times - I earn a lot more than my dh. I get bonuses. I consider all the money ours, all the financial decision ours.

I would never and do never lord it over him in any way or even bloody mention my money/his money or who's money should pay for what.

He knows this is stressing you out but he doesn't care, he likes holding the cards and the power. Horrible.

It is horrible. :( And so hard to try and wrestle back some power yourself.

I should have dealt with all of those things in my list ^^ but my lame excuse is FT job, small DD and studying.

I really sympathise, and I'm so sorry but I don't know what to suggest.

The only practical thing I can think of is to get a job that pays equal or more money (which as you say is difficult with young dc/studies).

The only relationshippy advice is to arrange to see a counsellor together.

Oh god just seen that he's hit you - right well honestly you must know that this man is very bad news. He is all about exerting power over you. I seriously urge you to think of leaving him. From being on these boards, I've realised it's pretty much unheard of for a man to only physically assault a woman once.

x

Sorry but if he hit you it's 'game over'...

I'm studying towards a work qualification as I'm being lined up to take over from my boss as he is retiring soon - when I do my wages will nearly double. :) NSDH (I feel) is trying to hamper my studies which makes sense if he's just trying to control me.

I am thinking of leaving. He's on his final warning and he knows it. I just need to do what I can to get out of my debt, which is easier said than done.