Should my friend wait for her "ambivalent" DH?

[mrsolympic2012]

Maybe some wise MNs can put some perspective on this for me. I am very close to my friend of 30 years. She's having a rough time- almost a breakdown- over her marriage and I am struggling a bit to see the wood for the trees. We talk a lot and I try very hard not to take sides.

But this is the situation- in brief.

After years of mostly stormy marriage, she has issued a divorce petition on grounds of unreasonable behavaviour. This was prompted by him admitting he had taken a colleague out to dinner- half way across the world- so no chance of seeeing her again or often- but he admits he was tempted.

The point is, she issued the divorce petition as much in anger and frustration as anything- and now doesn't really want to pursue it. But he has reacted , not by saying he is 100% committed to making the marriage work, although he says he wants that, but that sometimes he feels ambivalent- and not sure if he can really meet her expectations- and that perhaps it is better that they call it a day.

Should she be willing to wait for him to make up his mind and ditch his ambivalance- he's got an appt with a lawyer to see how he stands- or should she end it because he is not 100% certain that it can work?

She is also wondering if he lacks the balls to actually push on with divorce, is dithering in a calculated way, so that she will get fed up and carry on with the divorce without im having it on his conscience by "divorcing her".

She keeps asking me if she ought to tell him to FO as he is unsure if it will work- but she wants the marriage to work.

I think the clue to his ambivalence is the tall story about only being 'tempted'.
I don't suppose she believes that and neither would I. She probably thinks there is a lot she doesn't know.

They both sound passive-aggressive to be honest and as though they like playing games with eachother, rather than being direct about their feelings.

If I was advising a friend like this I'd suggest she is direct with her husband about what she wants. If she's still met with ambivalence, I would assume that he doesn't really want to work on the marriage and that there are reasons for that which he won't disclose. So if he isn't prepared to meet her honesty with his own, then there's no point trying to save a marriage if only one person wants to be in it.

Unreasonable behaviour is taking a female colleague to dinner and that led to a divorce petition?? Unless there is a lot more to this story, it doesn't make your friend sound very together. If you take that out of the equation, stormy marriage, anger, frustration, ambivalence, game playing. I think they need some serious professional counselling to see if they can actually make the marriage work, perhaps she could suggest that as a precursor to divorce that they should try counselling for few months and see where that gets them and if it doesn't change anything then go ahead with divorce?

I'd stay well out of this one :) She's gone in heavy with a divorce petition and he's calling her bluff. If she wasn't serious about the divorce, she shouldn't have gone that route. Now he's turned the tables & her bluff's been called she either carries on with it and ends up single (not a bad thing but she doesn't seen to have thought it through) or she backs down in the face of 'I'm ambivalent' and ends up in an even weaker position than she started.... volunteering to stay in a bad marriage means tacit acceptance the unreasonable behaviour and then yuo've not a leg to stand on

If she asks what you think just keep turning it back to 'what do you want?' and encourage her to take responsibility for her own life... because if you tell her what you think (either way) & she follows your advice and regrets it, you will end up the bad-guy, rather as her husband is trying to do to her.

Have you posted about this before? I remember being on a similar thread recently where the OP was pissed off because her friend was preferring other friends' advice to her own and that seemed to be the OP's main issue, rather than the dilemma her friend was facing.

In fairness, based on what you've written, she issued a divorce petition because her DH went out for dinner with someone. That's pretty unreasonable behaviour, surely?

I think they both need to look at their motives more closely but this certainly doesn't seem to be on the face of it a question of waiting for him (solely) to 'come to his senses'. If she wants the marriage to work she can't start divorce proceedings when they disagree on something.

I'm really wondering why you chose to present the story in this way? It makes your friend of 30 years sound like a drama llama. I'm sure that there must be other reasons for her taking such a drastic step but for some reason you haven't included them. Are you really the best person to be advising her, I wonder?

Has the marriage been 'stormy' due to her needing to control him? I've got to ask because taking someone out to dinner doesn't seem like a sackable offence.

Unless there's a lot more backstory, I agree SIBU and he probably ought to call her bluff, for both their sakes.

I suppose I'd like to know whether she's always been frantically insecure - in which case she ought to start therapy in earnest and hope he's willing to support her - or he makes her insecure. You can't influence the outcome either way, I'm afraid.

I think 'after years of mostly stormy marriage'.... was enough information to conclude that this woman has been miserable for a long time and the dinner with the colleague overseas was the straw that broke the camel's back

Just to put the record straight- they have had lots of counselling in the past both separately and couples counselling. That improved things for a while.

As far as she knows- and she has been very upfront about it- it was only dinner. I don't want to go into all the why are wherefores in case it outs him- or her- but I do believe that nothing happened other than what he said- as I said, there are reasons to believe he was truthful.

She has told him categorically that she wants it to work now.

She has said she will do anything to help that- such as more counselling.

The dinner date was the straw that broke the camel's back- she has always felt that he was not supporting her emotionally in life and was emotionally detached from her.

There is fault on both sides- her behaviour at times has been unreasonable in response to his coldness- she could be abused of emotional abuse- screaming etc-and throwing things at him.

You are right Cogito. She has had her bluff called. she regrets issuing the petition but says if she withdraws it while he is ambivalent, then he will take that as a sign that he can do what he likes.

I am not really advising her- I've just seen so many threads here about men who "dither" and the answer is always to leave them.

Can I just make it clear that I am not advising her?

I can give an opinion and sympathise- have known them both all their marriage and she is my closet friend on the planet!

Garlic she is insecure- she would admit to that and was in therapy for 5 years.

Maybe it would be best just to focus on whether anyone should wait for a man who is not sure he can give what you want? Is he being truthful and decent, or is he looking for an easy way out- that is the dilemma.

How about getting her Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft. He sounds like he's driving her a bit nuts which can be a sign of emotional abuse.

Is that a good book then?

I think, if your friend has had so much therapy and counselling, a book won't add anything useful. If it existed they need one called 'Decision Making for Dummies'... because that's the problem here. They are both unhappy together but neither have the courage to end it.

The gospel according to St Lundy of Bancroft is one of this board's 'bibles', mrsolympic, and I have no doubt your friend will find it an invaluable source of consolation.

That book was revelatory to me, despite having already been in therapy for a few years. Therapists focus on your responses, not what other people are doing to you. Having a clearer picture of what provoked my responses (similar to hers, by the sound of it) made the rest of my therapy a hell of a lot more effective.

Your friend says that if she withdraws her divorce petition he'll take it as a sign that he can do what he likes - and it could be that he'll decide to file for divorce himself.

The reality is that if she divorces him he'll inevitably take it as a sign that he can do what he likes - and he'll be legally free to do so.

On the basis that you should never make a threat or a promise that you don't keep, IMO she's best advised to continue with her divorce proceedings unless he begs asks her to withdraw her petition, which may happen once he realises the financial implications of divorce.

Given the marital history, it seems to me that they should have divorced years ago this is one to throw into the lap of the gods.

Maybe it would be best just to focus on whether anyone should wait for a man who is not sure he can give what you want? Is he being truthful and decent, or is he looking for an easy way out- that is the dilemma.

But how would that change things if she knew? It still amounts to the same thing - an ambivalent partner who doesn't know whether he wants to stay in a marriage.

Two of the most powerful motivators in life are loss and a new opportunity for sex/romance. He's not compelled by the first one (in relation to your friend at least) but the unknown quantity is whether the reason for that is the second motivator.

Either way, he's not fighting to stay in his marriage and it doesn't really matter to the final outcome what his reasons are, although it might help your friend to deal it if she had some truth.

YY, sternface. Maybe it would be best to focus on whether anyone should cling to a relationship that's underpinned by doubt & fear.

Just a couple of points:

She knows she should not have sent the petition- but they are where they are.

He DID beg to stay married at first, but this stalemate has now gone on for 2 months during which time he has since said he is ambivalent.

He fully understands the financial implications. There are no children and they are pretty wealthy- so they would both come out with half but not be penniless.

I just keep coming back to the same question- do you give a man time to ponder, when he admits he is unsure that he can meet your needs, even though he wants to- or do you jump first?

How long is it reasonable to wait for someone to keep you dangling?

You need more than one example of unreasonable behaviour to petition. I would suggest their marriage is over and they are just comfortable to let it meander. Tell her to spend two weeks away from him, see how she feels, bog off on holiday etc.

I would wait three days myself and then make a final decision if HE can't.

But she isn't waiting for him - she's started divorcing him. This is not the scenario we read about all too often on here where a guy has walked out saying he 'needs to think' and the woman is still fully committed to making the marriage work.

If she cancels the petition, nothing stops her from re-issuing it later. Who the hell wouldn't be ambivalent about staying married to someone who was in the process of divorcing you?! And why shouldn't he let her take the brunt of the effort in the divorce - she is divorcing him.

She needs to decide if she's ready to fight for the divorce or not. If he meanders along and decides not to play ball it'll take a long time and be very acrimonious (mind you it prob will be anyway). She needs to read him the riot act.

I think that the husband is right not to be hasty like his wife

Are they still living together?
If they are then maybe they should separate so that the husband can think more clearly. Seeing her daily may make it harder to come to a solution as a lot of energy is wasted trying not to start another argument etc where as living alone he can talk to friends and get a taste of life without her.

It doesn't sound like they are having a healthy relationship and that she should go and work on her insecurities anyway. If dinner was an acceptable excuse for divorce then single people would have to go out with escorts so they didn't get into trouble!

I didn't want to drip feed but I am wary of saying too much in case anyone recognises them in RL.

But- just so you have the whole picture. She knows you need more than 1 incidence of unreasonable behaviour- she has it- it's in the petition by a top family lawyer. I don't want to say what that is....but all I will say is he could find examples of her behaviour that were unreasonable as well, so it's not one sided.

Secondly- they have lived apart for 5 years due to his work. It was her choice not to join him where he lives and works. This is something he has not been happy about. He comes home to the Uk once every couple of weeks on average- sometimes more, sometimes less. They have had a gap of almost 3 weeks recently when they each had a " cooling off " time but talked by phone.

If she withdraws her petition, there'll be nothing to stop him filing for divorce.

As for her making the brunt of the effort to divorce, what 'brunt' would that be? If she's got a 'top family lawyer', they take the brunt of the gruntwork and she simply signs on the dotted line as and when required.

I recall your previous posts on the subject of your friend's marriage. I formed the view she was something of a diva it was doomed and I see no reason to alter my opinion.

I predict that, regardless of whether she withdraws her petition, he's destined to find a younger woman and settle down to parenthood bliss while she'll have cause to regret her hasty decision making - both in terms of issuing her petition and on other issues in their marriage.