Please help, is my marriage over?

[HoneyNutLoop]

I've been married for nearly 9 years.
We have two children, 6 and 3 1/2.
We live overseas in an expat unfriendly country.
It's always been hard, very hard.
I've stuck it through.
I don't want my babies to loose their daddy, I want my marriage to work but I have no idea what to do next :(

We have a lot of pressures right now. Well we always have.

When we first got married he was overseas studying, I was in uk...we had fun, he made me laugh. He was kind and he made me feel valued.

Then he got a job in London, I was still in Manchester, we made it work by me driving to London most weekends, he was too tired to come up north...I got sick of it, I wanted a real relationship, was about to call it off but found out I was pregnant...

He relocated to manc, bought a small house, baby came, it was hard but we were happy (mostly).

We were struggling financially, he wanted to relocate to Saudi, I didn't, but we did. Said we'd try it for 6 months. Meant living with his fam, it was meant to be tempory but it wasn't and it was hell.

3 months overseas and I fell pregnant again, it was hard...made finances tougher...I couldn't work...ended up staying with his fam for nearly 3 years, was hell, but then I got a job and got us out. Noone speaks now, it was that bad.

Now I work, he works, the house is linked to my job, if I leave my job we loose the house. My job is hell, added responsibilities, no extra pay, no recognition from management. I want to leave, I have done for over a year, but I feel stuck.

He wants me to leave but won't help find a solution, instead he just screams at me to quit and says he doesn't want to discuss my job because it stresses him out too much. I need a friend.

Saudi is lonely, I can't drive so lots falls on him, he works long hours, he is tired. However he has friends he has relative freedom, I have no outlet. A miserable job, few friends, no freedom, I feel trapped.

I have never said no to him, I have always wanted to support him in fulfilling his dreams for fear that he will resent me....but it feels that in doing that he has taken more and more and I have been lost...now I hate to say it but I resent him.

In an effort to change our situation he set up a business in the uk in jan, the plan was for me to stay in Saudi alone for 2 years...yes I know, but I wanted to support the dream and if that was what it took...anyway it collapsed, he's back working here.

He's stressed he's tired, but so am I. He is never home and when he is he is screaming at me and the kids or asleep.

He does try, he loves the kids, but his anger, it's disproportionate and do hard to listen to, it's tiring and scary, and I just want peace.

I don't feel like he's my friend anymore, I feel bullied...it seems like the only time he is kind is when he wants sex, and that's direct and to the point and I feel groped...sex for me is emotional. I can't be screamed at, unsupported, watch my kids be screamed at, then put out. Then he gets mad and sulky that there's no sex and it all gets worse.

I have no idea what to do next, should I quit my job? Can I trust him to follow through on the promises of finding a house, should I just cut my losses and head home?

I have no family in the uk, my mum died when I was young and it's a mess. I feel so alone. I feel like I have given him everything and now I am the enemy.

He blames everyone and everything for our situation, I just want to make the most of what it is...

My kids see the arguements, he said to my son the other day that he was going to divorce mummy. It's not right.

I have no idea what to do anymore...should I just shut my mouth and take it? I did for years but that turned me into a doormat but when I fight back and say what I think it just gets worse.

I know he loves the kids, I know he is frustrated, I know he tries, but the anger...it's exhausting...he's lovely to his friends, always there for them...just wish he would be there for us too.

I don't want my marriage to be over but I think it might be, I have no idea what to do next...

Honey what an awful situation you are in. I'm afraid I don't really have any useful advice, but I would echo what others have said regarding the children. You need.to act like he will try and take them from you . Just in case.

Totally agree with Fab and Lueji's sound advice - you are not weak, or inadequate, or stupid (all the things your dh makes you feel). You must take legal advice before giving up your job - it could be a mistake.

And I hate to say it but it is absolutely staggering the amount of women (on this board alone) who refuse to believe their dh would be capable of doing terrible, hurtful things. But find out to their horror that the types especially the types of men don't respect or care for their wives, will stoop extremely low.

You cannot trust your husband not to try to take the dc - especially if there is talk of you moving back to UK/leaving him etc.

Thanks guys, your support means so much...I see three scenarios when he gets home; 1; he says he's too tired and refuses to talk, 2; he acts like nothing has happened (normal but somehow I don't think so today), 3; it's some kind of fight...my money's on 1!

You're right I need to act like I could loose the kids, better that than regret not being cautious but I can't believe he would...he's not evil, more a hot headed idiot who loves his family but is feeling out of control...least that's what I'd rather think...I still hold onto that part of this is him feeling useless like he's let me down...maybe it's wishful thinking...

I doubt it's inlaw pressure, I've actually encouraged him to try and rebuild a relationship over the last year...there are issues, mostly with me but I figured he should try and maintain some kind of relationship mostly for kids...but he wants none of it, the relationship is crap, there's alot of history back to childhood...maybe that's part of the prob, maybe he's so angry cos if his childhood, maybe part of the prob is he listens to noone. Ultimately, I doubt this is some matriarchal master plan...which is a relief...in the end, and I mean after many years he did choose me and kids over his fam.

Should add, not that I wanted him to, personally thought there was room for everyone but it's a big dysfunctional mess!

I think you have your head firmly screwed on. You know your husband and if you think it's unlikely he would do such a thing - great, that is a positive. But accepting that you have to accept that it could happen is very sensible. And brave actually. Remember, someone doesn't have to be 'evil' to do these things. They just have to be someone controlling feeling out of control, someone stressed, someone resentful, scared or angry...

Also get rid of evidence of posting here if there's any chance he might find out.

7pm, he's not home and not answering his phone...he had to do the weekly shop today...if only I could drive here! Things like the shop and all the pressure on him to do all errands do put stress, on him. Still dunno what's going to happen.

Sorry people asked, do I speak Arabic? A little but not much.
And expat community, we're in the capital, there is an expat community and we have friends through sons school, but with my working hours and restrictions here (driving) he does the school run, there's alot of pressure on him too. It's hard for me to do the expat thing cos I'm working or with kids.

Sorry it took me so long to answer those questions, brains all over the place!

Heck, my grammar's gone out the window! Hope you get the gist!
Proudnbrave, thanks again, your message was empowering! I guess it's best to be prudent...better that than have my world really fall appart! You got me thinking, and yes people do crazy things when under pressure and he is certainly under pressure.
Luiji- you know there's a bit of me that wants him to see this...maybe so he'd know how miserable I really am...I just don't think he gets it! He once told me that he thinks we have the best marriage of all our friends...I sat in shock thinking do you ever hear a word I say!
I don't want to be without him, but I think it's gone too far :( is it stress, his stress response is to scream and shout and shut down...I've seen it before...will he change? He says no! Can I go on like this? I don't know! The impact on the kids...they adore him, but the anger, if it has this effect on me, then what on them?
Maybe I should just scream! Lol...
I told a friend here what's going on...they know, they know him...he's not bad, he's a hot head and it's exhausting...she said I should speak to the embassy too, not resign til he books the kids tickets and gets them visas...that way I can get them out...

Still not home, 9pm and I feel sick...maybe I should just go to sleep, but then it's another day of no answers...when he gets in it'll be "I'm too tired to talk"...in a way it's reassuring that I know him well enough to know how he'll act...so I can hope I'm right re kids...I just wish he'd act like he cares and we matter to him.

honey, it is a very sad situation you're dealing with, but you ARE dealing with it so stay strong! I don't know if he will change or not, people are different and some do turn over a whole new leaf (not saying he will, but can't judge and say he won't either)...sending you hugs & positive vibes...

Thanks fab...
Well I decided to catch him off guard, I called him, he was on his way home, I said do you want to discuss our marriage now or shall I wait up?
He said he was tired, I said me too...he doesn't know if he can try and he agrees he's not my friend right now...
He says my job is making the marriage worse, i agreed, but pointed out that a couple of months back he was willing to leave me here for 2 years, and I was willing to do it for us...I'm not the bad guy...We should be in it together...he said he didn't realise how bad my job was but now he sees?!
Anyhoo, he asked if I resigned...I told him no, and that I had a moment of realization re kids and visas...he started fighting , on defensive) I told him I didn't believe it but I dont know him right now, and they're my kids...he seemed to get it...maybe I was painfully stupid to be honest, but I need him to sort out whatever visas and understand why...anyway he says he'll go tomorrow to try and sort it...he told me to go, and he'd call, so he must be serious...
After a chat he promised to try and be friends... And take it from there.

I dunno, maybe it'll be better...but my sons face, when he woke up and saw daddy home, the big half asleep smile...that's worth trying for, right?!

I dom't think you are stupid...you are just trying VERY HARD to make this work!
The fact that you were very honest and upfront is great and HE needs to do a lot of work imo... I agree with you about trying, but it has to be for YOU as well as the DC(they need TWO happy parents)...just keep your wits about you please. If you're all on his visa, it won't be any easier to leave Saudi should you decide to do that...I'd still speak to the embassy tomorrow and see what your options are (just to have a back up plan)..good luck!

It's great that he seems to want to work at it. :)

Keep talking.
And check that he's doing what he promises.

Morning all, well better day, got out of the house and to work without a fight.
Fab.. you're right, it would be no easier to get kids out if I'm on his visa but once I resign if I'm on my own then I have to leave...at least if I'm on his visa whilst on one hand I'm theoretically more controlled, on the other I can stay with my kids...worse case scenario...but as I said before, I genuinely don't believe it would come to that...will call the embassy all the same.
I am trying, and lueji I will keep talking...In a way I think I talk too much, and he is not a fan of listening. Hey ho, we can but try.
I really think that he feels crap, I think he blames himself, and try as I might I do blame him a bit too...I know that he did what he thought was right at the time, but my frustration is that he doesn't listen to me...and sadly I get proved right at all the wrong times...it's my fault for being too submissive and agreeable in the past, now I am standing my ground it's a shock to his system...it'll take time to make him realise that that doesn't make me the enemy, just a stronger ally, if he'll let me be that! I guess the thing is that I can compromise my needs, for the sake of his happiness, but I cannot compromise the needs of my children.
You're right, raising kids takes two happy parents, and we are not happy, getting out of the situation that we're in is the first step to doing that and my job has to be changed...
I'm applying for other jobs in ksa today, more expat friendly, more family friendly hours...if that pans out and visa can be sorted I'll stay, if not I will take kids and go home...well that's the plan...alot of unknowns, but for now at least hubby and I seem to be on the same side...I think! If any of you believe in the power of prayer please send a few our way...I think we could do with them!
I'll keep you all posted...thanks again for the support :)

When are you next coming home for a visit?

I would deal with this then and say nothing about visas and divorce while in the Kingdom of Misogyny.

Lol I like that..."Kingdom of Misogyny"! Have you lived here perchance?!
Sadly I can't just leave it...as tempting as it is just to book a holiday and do a runner long term that will cause copious probs, and if I can salvage my marriage I may find myself unable to return, whilst hubby is stuck out here for work...Need to face this one head on I'm afraid!

No, I have never, and would never, go there.

I wasn't suggesting you do a runner. Just that you should put yourself in a position to talk about the possible end of your marriage in a country that legally recognises you as a full human.

How long are you planning to live in a country where you have no friends and are not allowed to drive?

Glad to hear it's a better day today honey :) I love the positive attitude you have...please keep it going :)
Good luck with the job applications... over the years I've known TONS of expat couples who would've never left Saudi as they had such great jobs, living accomodations, friends, etc. & I think you're taking the perfect step to get you out of a situation that is making you unhappy, both on the job front as well as with DH. Have you looked at possibly applying at Kingdom Holdings or one of the Kingdom companies? They are owned by Walid bin Talal & he's a big believer in empowering women...just a thought..
I definitely believe in the power of prayer & will continue to pray for you and your family.
Is your husband Muslim by any chance? If so & he's practicing, I can give you a few points that you may wish to use to remind him about what is 'acceptable Muslim behaviour of a man to his wife & family', not what is considered a 'cultural norm', but behaviour he should aspire to based on the religious teachings themselves. Praying for you all and wishing you the best of luck!

That's great.

It's possible that you may also need to find a slughtly different way of talking WITH him.
Assertive but not that he feels confronted.

You know the old trick of letting them think it was their choice?
Something along those lines.
For modern times it would be discussing pros and cons and feelings with an open mind.
And please don't blame him for past decisions because you did agree, and it solves nothing now.

It is best to think about the future now.

Lueji... You're right, we do need to find a better way to communicate, and i shouldn't blame him, but I have to be honest, and I do, maybe not blame, but resent the sacrifices I've made and the fact that he seems to keep asking for more...not just in recent times, but from day 1. I know it's not productive but I think that the only way I can move forward is to recognize that...I can no longer just agree with his wishes and suffer in silence...I guess that this is a learning curve, and part of the problem...is that I now acknowledge what a strain the years, and one way compromises have put on me, and now i am saying no more. In recognizing these things he blames himself (probably more than me)...we need to find a way to move forward...and goodness me I'm trying!
Fab...thanks for the good luck and prayers...yup he's Muslim, but then so am I, from before I met him...that's another part of the problem, this place seems to make him less Muslim if that makes sense? Me too :( its the culture/religion thing all over...I think part of the problem in his attitude is the fact that he spent so many of his early years here, back in the 80's and early 90's when he was a kid/young teenager he saw alot of the worst side of this place, then relative freedom in the uk, boarding school and uni...it seems you know ksa well, maybe you know some of the stories from back then, but well...it was not good for him...I have similar worries for my kids. I think the anger and frustration from back then plays out now..., i hope that this makes sense to you?!
Anyhoo, better get on and apply for jobs, still not got hold of embassy...hey maybe I should apply for a job there...I could 'answer' phones all day ;)

A thing!... Careful! I said that the one place I'd NEVER live was here...look at me now ;) never say never...it always gets me in trouble :p

Lueji... Just a question... How the heck do I let him think something is his idea? I am royally rubbish at this...I know people manage it, but I think I'm just way too direct! I have this annoying habit of saying what I think and boy oh boy does it get me in trouble!

Fab, thank you for your pm...I wrote a really long response but unfortunately I couldn't get it to send...maybe that was fortunate for you cos it was REALLY long lol! Thank you on two levels: 1j'a for your advice, I will take it...2: I had a lightbulb moment as my 6 year old would put it ;) in a nutshell I think it's quite poss that hubbies past experiences are weighing heavily and he doesn't want the same for his kids...hence he's been on at me to quit and leave, I've been fighting to keep the family together and he feels I'm not listening, hence a break down in communication...also he sees what I'm exposed to at work and wants me out...his response being him, is to shout and scream and threaten...but me being me I don't do threats I do reason and so dig my heals in more! There's more to it than that, but...lightbulb :p thank you :)

I wish I knew, actually. :o

I don't actually advocate it because it is manipulative, but the point I take from it is more of reaching a solution that both are happy with, and both are responsible for, not a struggle of wills.

honey , you are more than welcome :) I would've loved to read the long message, but it was clearly not meant to be so no worries...
I'm glad you found the advice useful & absolutely LOVE the sound of your lightbulb moment & I hope it means that communication will be better for you and DH soon :) If you ever figure out how to make something sound like DH's idea, please let me know...lol :D
Good luck! Praying for you all !