So after the affair 'bubble' has burst and your husband begins to realise the magnitude of what he's done where did that leave you? I feel kind of stuck not moving backwards but not moving forwards ei

[confusedriver]

Hello ladies I posted quite something on here a while back, firstly describing how DH and I had grown distant and secondly how I had found out he was having an affair, I have name changed as since he has seen me on mumsnet and he knows my user name (as does a friend) so just thought if anything is searched in my old name this may be a way to keep me hidden.

So in a nutshell I found out what he was doing (texting) and then he came clean and admitted he was sleeping with her etc, loves this OW, she gives him things I've never given him before, they talk for hours blah blah all that crap...after a week of radio silence as advised by amazing posts from many but anyfucker, charbon and madabouthotchoc really helped me see the wood for the trees so to speak, he realised he couldn't leave and has repeatedly said he wants to make it up to me for the rest of my life and become a better couple from it, he thought we had both stopped trying, and that now of course he realises what he did was totally wrong....!!

We have talked and talked and talked daily, the first few weeks were not easy....and at first he was very defensive of her, and upset when he thought of her, then after a few days he kept saying how everyday it gets easier he doesn't miss her, he realises just what the hell he had to lose with me, and it took to him nearly losing it all to realise just what we do have, and for him to realise he has always loved me and she could never compete with that. OW tried to text him, so he changed his number that day unprompted, he came home to tell me she had text him, and that he didn't reply (showed me the message on his phone) and also said he has changed his number to try and cut that angle of contact. He has stopped going to the pub (and anywhere actually) comes home from work early everyday to try and remain 'transparent' and says the thought of what he nearly lost makes him want to try and be the best husband in the world and that he plans to make it all up to me (been getting flowers, texts throughout the day to explain his whearabouts and i love u messages and sorry messages etc)

since their last point of contact I have been able to check in many many ways that he is telling the truth (i feel like a spy!) and there is truth in his actions. He also cuddles me all the time, cooks me breakfast every morning and is helping out with the kids no end, he says he thinks he made our relationship out to be worse in his head that he thought, and that when he was doing all these horrible things he said his head was "totally gone" and looking back he cant believe he could ever do it because its so out of character for him.

So yes, he is trying to make ammends big time. He has even distanced himself from some 'friends' who knew what he was doing, he is trying to make it up in loads of ways and lots more than I have listed and I feel like I am talking the the old version of him again... his head is out of this 'bubble' he was in, and he has cried, apologised and just keeps saying he wants us to work and that we will work if I can try and trust him again.

But, he lied and lied and lied to me whilst having an affair, and I just cant get my head round this. I have flashbacks, I am obsessing, I have a racing heart most of the time although I conceal it all so well inside its so very hard.

All the lies whilst he was in this different world, and the way he treated me was so horrible... do I forgive him for these things? Because he is like his oldself again its so bloody confusing. he has told me everything about their affair (I think) from beginning to end (extremely hurtful) and everytime i have a question he answers it.

I tell him daily i don't know if i can do this, even though i love him, I cant torture myself with this life of potential paranoia etc. He gets v upset about this and then says it wont happen because he's going to try his best to make it all better...

But after they 'realise' what they have done, I just don't get how I should feel, I am still so angry, so hurt and I just feel soooo confused like I cant trust anything I think.

I feel kind of stuck, not going backwards but not moving forwards either...

For me too notallabout, I think I felt so comfortable in my relationship after 17 years that recent revelations have literally blown me away and I'm still shocked by it all really, shocked that the person I thought I knew and thought was my soul mate could do what he did to me, sometimes the feelings are so strong it physically hurts but the way in which he has shown remorse is the only reason he is still in the same house as me and I still love him and I NEVER thought I would ever say that when I talked about people who cheat in the past.

How you forgive and trust again will be different for everyone I suppose, I'm only a month into finding out about things and have just come across a book which will hopefully give me an insight into the future and how I can overcome everything, it's called Just "good friends" by Shirley Glass and I'm finding great comfort in reading it at the moment.

Just as he spent the weeks and months leading up to and conducting the affair, you too are entitled to weeks and months evaluating whether you want this 'new' relationship thrust upon you and want you want from it. When all the periphery stuff is dealt with, it comes down trust and respect, the glue of any relationship.

When my ExH had an affair I thought I would be able to rebuild our marriage, even make it better in a conscious 'we had chosen to be together having been through adversity', and that is what he was saying he wanted too, and at that point, forged with determination and optimism, I thought we could. And if he were truly on board, then yes, it was do-able. But he wasn't. Your H is certainly saying and doing all the right things and importantly he is the one instigating this, not being directed to. Whether he 'bears it out even til the edge of doom' is the rub, I guess.

As an add-on: fast-forward a year and H has asked many times if he could come back and whilst I miss his friendship a great deal, knowing what I know now about him and the disdain in which I hold him a lot of the time, the idea of being intimate with this man leaves me cold.

When XH1 wanted us to get back together - after OW dumped him! - I hoped he'd show credible signs of losing the narcissism that made him crave female attention (

One of the things you might find helpful is to forgive yourself for trusting. Because that's what it was - trust, not gullibility.

What was the alternative? Being paranoid and jealous? Assuming the worst in someone you'd always assumed the best of?

You were just normal emotionally healthy women who understandably lived your lives without suspicion. You wouldn't have wanted it any other way.

And nothing you could have done would have stopped what happened anyway. If you'd been suspicious, it would have been turned against you and even if you'd found out before things had gone too far, it wouldn't have changed your partners' motivation to be unfaithful.

One of the reasons people don't notice the signs is because they are often different to what you read about in newspapers and magazines and also because there is tremendous cultural pressure to be cool and laid-back about opposite-sex friendships with colleagues/clients and the other huge indicator of what's to come....a porn habit. People also rarely realise that the person who tells lots of small lies finds it easier to tell big ones, that someone who's intrinsically selfish will apply that behaviour to rewarding himself with an illicit relationship one day. This stuff rarely gets mentioned in media articles about affairs - we're still reading tripe that hasn't been updated since the seventies about affairs, for example the usual guff about 'needs not being met'.

That's a good book some of you are reading (The Shirley Glass one). But the person who should read it the most is the one who was unfaithful.

I packed that book into ExH's bag when he left

thanks again for all you invaluable posts, they have all made so much sense, so much so I keep re-reading them. Everythings still to raw so maybe I am putting to much pressure on myself thinking once I have decided what I want to do, somehow I will feel 'better' iyswim

In reality at the moment i guess no decisions I make will make me actually feel better...

garlicbutty your post makes such sense and I had never realised the difference (or even thought about) the difference between unconditional and conditional love. A lot of what you said has really made sense, and also of our future relationship abut starting again as you would if you were dating again for the first time.

I never thought forgiving an affair is something I would or even contemplate for me its always been black and white (my father also had an affair when I was 16 and I have never looked at him in the same way for the way he hurt my mum) for me my thoughts were always that i would never ever take back a man who strayed. ITs the ultimate deal breaker. But, somewhere in me I feel we have too much to throw away. We had got stopped trying with each other, had stopped communicating, we as a couple had just stopped. But when we make the effort and go out together, talk etc we still get on like we always did and everything comes flooding back to how things used to be before. Despite how he re wrote our history, things were good, and he even admits that he thinks he just dwelled on the bad bits to almost justisy what he was doing. But HE has to change a lot, and the message coming through the shirley glass book to me at the moment is how bad relationships are not the cause of the affair, its more like the opportunity they have taken, as his walls were down. rebuilding this trust and building up these 'walls' she speaks of is something I am not sure he understands yet, so he really does need to read the book. i guess thats the scary thing, eitherway he would have taken this opportunity to have an affair. So what would stop him if there was a next time? He always says he could never ever do it again because he is so close to losing everything he realises now how much he wants to change, he said he wants to be the best husband and the best father in the world (shame he didn't want to be before I hear you saying!) and thats he is going to do everything to make this possible. He recounted a story he remembered from school the other morning about the sheep thief,and how the man was branded ST on his head, and how he wants to spend the rest of his time making up what he has done.

The boundaries I believe were there early on but looking back have definitely disappeared. And i also believe nothing I could have said or done any earlier would have changed his mindset , his mind was made up at the time of wanting to have the affair and nothing would have changed that.

Charbon - He hasn't had any personal therapy, but he has said that he wants us both to go to therapy as he has been a bit worried about how down I have been and thinks a therapist will help me get over thinking about it all the time and help us both find ways of dealing with it all. He was in tears again this morning with guilt etc and sorrys for everything he has done. He said he wakes up every morning and thinks how could I have been such an f'ing idiot, and then prays what he is doing will be enough.

Couples therapy would be a mistake because that evidently wasn't the main problem. It wouldn't help you to stop thinking about it all either and the bigger point is that it shouldn't. This is like a bereavement of sorts and it needs to be processed in the same way. It cannot be rushed through or the sadness and intrusive thoughts, filed away.

Whereas personal therapy for him is in my view, essential. He needs to make the link between what happened, with his personality and character traits.

It doesn't surprise me that you're reading that book, but he isn't. I see that a lot, but it's the wrong way around.

I'm sure he believes everything he says about realising the mistake he made, what he nearly lost and how much he is determined to be a better husband and father, but although I accept that some of that is translating into actions in this 'honeymoon' period, sustained change will only occur once he's made the links between what happened and the other behaviours he allowed in himself all his life, before the affair. An affair is never an isolated, discrete act; there are always behaviours and traits that made it possible. Only by acknowledging and addressing those traits, will there ever be sustained change.

Charbon you talk so much sense, I'm currently reading the Shirley Glass book and relating some of the things to dp, however he still cannot pinpoint why he did what he did, says it was a mixture of things which led to his infidelities.

Charbon you talk so much sense, I'm currently reading the Shirley Glass book and relating some of the things to dp, however he still cannot pinpoint why he did what he did, says it was a mixture of things which led to his infidelities.

I think your DP needs to go to individual counselling to find out what personal issues and personality traits in him led to his cheating.

Also, he should read the book himself.

Fantastic post Garlic.

'he has told me everything about their affair (I think) from beginning to end (extremely hurtful) and everytime i have a question he answers it.'

This is a very good sign. Also that he has read 'how to help your spouse' which is quite hard hitting and doesn't give cheaters much slack.

You are very very soon into it, you are in the trauma/flashback part of it. Give yourself time...

About 2 + more years.

IF he continues on the path he is currently on and stays open, honest and keeps answering your questions, IF he doesn't say 'you should be over this by now', IF he humbly accepts your timetable of pain, IF he questions his selfish tuwintishness, I would confidently predict that you will be posting 'I love my H more than ever, he got it and has turned from an egotistical twat into a sensitive emotionally available man of my dreams...

which some INCREDIBLY LUCKY grrrrrr Mumsnetters have been fortunate and blessed enough to be able to write.

It isn't the mistake you make, it is what you do about that mistake. And some men, show real, real love and concern here. How I wish there were more of them.

Search Mrsorry and show to your H. (So sorry for your pain)

PS it is a total bereavement. You have lost a lot, and something died.

Many many more tears tonight him saying regret how he hates himself and how he can't bear the thought of me thinking of a new life for him.... I am so tempted to ask him to set up a user name and come on here

A new life for me not him!!! Typo !! Sorry !! Xx

It is likely to take you a very long time.

You have realized that the man you love did not exist. He was somebody else. He was also somebody else with somebody else.

How can you love him and trust him, when you dont know who he is? All you know is the hurt he is quite happy to inflict on you.

You have to get to know him again. And build a different marriage, if you decide that you like and love the new him you are getting to know.

Personally, I could not. I wish you luck.

christ almighty, all these blubbing men

how can you respect them ?

like a naughty toddler caight with a hand in the sweetie jar

tell him to get a grip, fgs, and save his tears for someone who deserves them

confused: nothing will make this better. Whatever path you choose to follow, you will have to go through a lot of pain. Either you both try to salvage your relationship, bearing in mind that the previous relationship is dead, but there might be enough foundations to build a new one on. Or, you separate, and go it alone. Sorry to sound harsh but there are no easy solutions. We are all different; many posters think that it is worth staying, and have successfully got over this; others (like me) simply can't and won't tolerate the amount of pain caused, and realise that there is no way forward for the marriage.

Only you know your marriage, and how much love you have for this man. Only you know whether you can forgive, whether you can trust again. But please don't get taken in by his tears and guilt. AF's right (she always is), he needs to man up. You need space, as much as it takes to decide whether he is worthy of a second chance. You can't decide that with him around. If he really wants you, then he'll respect your need for space. And you might amaze yourself, and actually find that being on your own, is actually a nice place to be. For me, it was amazing. I didn't realise how bad things were, until I got the space I needed to see it all from a distance.

confusedriver I am in quite a similar situation to you. It's coming upto 11 months since discovery day. The first month he was a cruel bastard and left, then he started wavering, the the last 9 months he's been behaving like your H, so sorry and saying and doing EVERYTHING I prayed he'd say/do in that first horrible month and doing all he can to get me back.

But like you, I'm nowhere near over it. We are not currently living together but see each other a lot in a weird dating/friend way. He is keen for us to move back in and be a proper couple again. I just can't. If I'm completely honest with myself, I'm enjoying the attention and his constant apologies and him being 'perfect'.

But whenever he's not around I dwell on his actions and treatment of me and can't see us ever being a 'proper couple' again. But I can't cut him loose because I love him and he loves me. Shittiest of shit situations...and like you I have no idea how it will turn out.

Will lurk and read your replies.

Good luck

Similar situation with me too. 9 months on from discovery day. Some days I am hit so hard by the thoughts of what he has done to me and how little the children and I must have meant to him at times. I describe it as a dark fog engulfing my thoughts, mood and even actions. But then some days are great, we always had this easy comfort between us - this is returning. it's slow going and I sometimes wonder if I'll get there.

Good luck to all of you in this situation.

Quintessentially Shadows just gets to the nub of the devastation:

"You have realized that the man you love did not exist. He was somebody else. He was also somebody else with somebody else.

How can you love him and trust him, when you dont know who he is? All you know is the hurt he is quite happy to inflict on you.

You have to get to know him again. And build a different marriage, if you decide that you like and love the new him you are getting to know."

Fabulous post. I don't know that I have ever seen it written down so concisely. I think if I had this post, Garlic's post, and Charbon's questions, that's all the issues there in a nutshell.

Charbon - 'but only if the person who cheated changed the behaviours that allowed him/her to cheat in the first place. And only if the faithful partner has a greater awareness of those behaviours and how enabling them in the past, was a mistake. A forgiveable one though; so little is known about affairs and how individual-based they are and how behaviours that were forgiven and even indulged were actually red flags pointing to future infidelity'.

I agree wholly with this point. What I have realised/opened my eyes to is that his infidelity was the final, unacceptably hurtful part of a much much larger pattern of behaviour, the biggest red flag being devaluing/dismissing my wishes and thoughts - which I was unable to recognise.
Which has been categorised not by anything overtly dysfunctional that other MNetters write about so dramatically, but utter selfishness. He has organised his life, as he should, and I went along with all of it. I failed to notice when he quietly devalued me, dismissed my opinions or refused to do things I wanted to do, and I either didn't see it for what it was, or blamed myself (illusion of control). He is not bad, but a profoundly selfish person.

So although it is a lot more subtle than 'it takes two to tango', I agree with Charbon's comment than I did enable that entitlement through my own lack of personal growth; and it is THIS numbness/learned helplessness and not the marriage/him that I am committed to developing. It takes quite a long time and a lot of concentration to undo 40 years of thinking and believing. It's no use doing anything other than dealing the hand of cards I have. To say I should never have married him/I should have left when DS1 was 6 months old... I wouldn't have my lovely children then.

Another point: I finally 'got' it [Charbon's point about who should be reading the books] when 2 years post discovery and he had sworn everything under the sun, on my side of the bed were 10 books on affairs, healing, Gottman, etc; and on his side? The normal shootin' fishin' war stuff - there always had been!!!
The three Cs of al-anon: I didn't create him, I cannot control him, and I cannot cure him. ONLY myself.

I can echo Abitw's view about infidelity being part of a wider relationship pattern of selfishness etc.

That is why it is so important for the unfaithful person to go to counselling of find ways eg reading to have a good look at themselves and their issues, and discuss and acknowledge them.

And the injured party needs to do the same, to work out how they allowed themselves to be treated this way (and what they did to enable it, in some cases.)

I do think that it can take some time after the shock of discovery and its aftermath to see this wider pattern. I know my own h was a selfish prick for years, and even after initial discovery of some of the facts, I was more focused on the details of the infidelity than what he was like as a whole person, and what additional damage that had done to me, and the children.

I could be wrong, but I imagine that those who lie and cheat on their partners are usually the ones who are like this as people, and/or people who have alot of issues. They may or may not use the infidelity to confront those. Didnt Shirley Glass say that it is usually those people who contribute least to the relationship who are unfaithful?

Some threads never die, this is over a year old!

Stop bumping old threads Betrayed40!