Are my expectations unrealistic ?? Or have I f*cked up again ........

[Tillyscoutsmum]

I was going to name change because I feel such a failure.

I've been with DH for 8 years, married for 3. We have 2 young dc's together (as well as a DSD).

My relationship is ...... ok. He's not abusive. I care about him and we have a "nice" life together (no real money troubles, lots of friends etc.). We share a similar sense of humour and still laugh sometimes, when life doesn't get in the way. But that's about it. His conversation bores me (and vice versa). We have "going through the motions" sex once every week or so, just because we "should". There's no passion. We spend most evenings on opposite ends of the sofa with separate laptops. We bicker and argue and irritate each other. We disagree a lot about parenting.

I think if he came home and said he'd been having an affair, I'd be relieved. I think if we won the lottery, I'd leave. When I think about being with him in 10, 20, 50 years time, the thought depresses me...

Then I look at the shit some people put up with and I think I need to "man up" and just accept that life isn't all hearts and flowers. But I just feel like I want more.... deserve more maybe ? And so does he

Sorry - just wanted to get it "out there" really. Am I being silly ? Naive ? Is this just what marriage with young children is ?

Any thoughts welcomed...

You are not silly or naive nor have you fucked up.

You say you would leave him if you won the lottery. If you really feel that I'm sorry to say it sounds like you're marriage is over. You could go through the motions for the next 5, 10, 20 years, be miserable and then probably split up anyway or you can end it now and make a new, possibly better, life for yourself and your dc.

Divorcing isn't the end of the world. It's just the beginning of a new chapter.

How young are your DCs.

It's a tricky one. I think often relationships take effort and it's easy for it to get lost for a while.

Do you spend anytime together alone? I know it sounds cheesy but 'date night' can help sometimes.

DH and I try to spend Friday evenings at the dining table, having nice dinner and a bottle of wine (or3).

We could easily sit in front of tv or laptop but do make an effort. I think it helps a lot.

Oh Tilly
So sorry. The issue is not what is any standard of 'normal' in a relationship, but the fact that you feel unhappy and imagine that if the winds of fortune allowed, you would leave. If he is equally unhappy, do you think he would be prepared to go to relationship counselling? You could keep it open ended, to explore whether the relationship can be repaired, or whether it would be better to split.

One should never have to settle for adequate.

The only time I seriously ever thought about leaving DH was when the children were small. It was an incredibly tough and probably boring time for us both.
We, I think, bored each other rigid, I felt he was not interested in my day/life and he was so focussed on working to keep a roof over our heads, I don't think we communicated that much or were nearly as close as were were before the kids, or as we are now.
We have been married over 30 years, and I think the secret is to communicate as much as possible with each other, even if it is only general chit chat, to try and be interested in each other and be interesting for your partner. I think when the chidren are small its very easy to lose the fun element in your relationship, so try not to do the boring same old, same old, and try to think of different ways of spending the odd evening.

You sound bored with one another, before throwing the towel in try and get interested in one another again.

Thank you. DC's are nearly 5 and 2.6. They are hard work (aren't they all ?!).

I'm not sure he'd go for counselling. We do try to talk about things but he gets very defensive and aggressive, so its difficult.

I do agree about needing to make an effort and sometimes we do book a babysitter and go out for a night. Things are better, particularly if we're both a bit drunk but then something will happen or we'll argue about something and I'm left wondering why we bothered.

We've both been married and divorced before.

But yes, settling for adequate feels very much like what I'm doing at the moment

Life with two young children is hard, boring, relentless and can grind you down. Do you think this might be what's happened to you?

Do you ever get any time to yourself, to do what you find interesting? Do you ever find time to do stuff as a couple, or as a family?

Obviously I can't see the internal workings of your marriage, but perhaps you have to be careful not to get rid of a fundamentally good relationship to create "interest" in your life.

There are a lot of knobs out there (pet subject atm).

I think the internet has caused a lot of relationships to die. If you're not participating in the same thing at all, then you pretty quickly find you don't have anything in common.

Could you ban the internet at 9pm and watch a film together or just sit and talk?

It's called marriage. Especially with young kids.

Others will and always do disagree with what about to say and will say 'if you are this unhappy, leave' and 'you deserve to be happy, why should you live like this?': I say because you have children, because life isn't perfect, because you can most definitely see things more positively and easily improve things!

You like each other, you laugh (yeah you bicker and have functional sex but that is most likely your life stage and is pretty bloody normal), you have a good lifestyle.

I'm not saying 'so be grateful' or 'what are you complaining about', I'm saying the grass is not greener.

If you jump ship you will find someone else, maybe that relationship will be much better and more exciting but the reality is that it will very probably become stale as well fairly soon.

And you will be uprooting your childre.

Put your laptops down, go out to dinner more, talk more...

My marriage is not that different to yours (except we don't have big rows and we don't disagree on parenting for the most part) but the massive difference is I consider mine very happy and successful.

OneHandFlapping - you are right about day to day grinding me down. I am a SAHM (through choice and I am happy with it but it does add to the relentlessness somewhat). We have no family near by to help with the dc's. DH has a hobby which takes up quite a lot of weekend/free time so I do get left feeling a little bit like there's no time for "me". The resentment I feel obviously doesn't help matters (and its another source of arguments) but DH really struggles to look after the dc's so I often feel like I can't get out much, unless they're in bed.

ImperialBlether - I agree. Its a bit of a chicken & egg scenario. I enjoy spending time on the internet because its better than having boring conversations and/or arguments. I do however appreciate I/we need to make more effort to get out of that particular rut.

Oh no!!! I remember your wedding planning posts!!! We were getting married in 2005, about the same time. Are you sure you haven't just slipped into a rut?? Think about how excited you were when planning your wedding... What has changed?

Tilly In my view, i think life is too short to waste it - do what's right for you and your children - don't spend the rest of your life with the wrong person.

I saw my mum and dad stay together cause they hadn't the money to separate - my mum left with us kids a few times and always came back to my dad cause she had no money, she felt like she was being a failure by leaving my dad, she felt sorry for him, whatever. But i think it affected mine and my siblings lives - i was quite shocked to go to a friends house and see her parents happy and loving - cause i didn't realise that parents could be like that with each other based on my own parents. Its taken me a few attempts at getting it right as i didn't have a template from my parents to go on.
If you don't think its right and you don't think that it can be fixed then get out - i know this is easier said than done, but it IS possible.

Sorry I meant 2008 wedding

Oh Tilly
Big hugs have been meaning to call you. Have seen a couple of your messages. Will go back to top and read the thread. Take care.
CM

Tilly, I think that you being a SAHM is quite significant. I had to make an enormous effort to find interests and friends outside the home when I was a SAHM, in order to preserve my sanity (and my marriage).
I joined several organisations and clubs that I could get involved with, it made my life more interesting, and made for more interesting conversations with DH.
If your DH has a hobby, you take up one or develop an interest in something you can persue outside the home. It will make a difference to you I promise.

I was nodding so vigorously at proud's post that I nearly choked on my toastie.

Of course life is hard and boring at the moment - you are a SAHM with two young children. I can promise you it's even more fucking hard and more fucking boring when you're a single mother and there's was no one to sit on the sofa with in the evenings after a long day with the kids - I know because I've been there. I never lived with DD's dad and he was horrendously unsupportive for the first couple of years (he's great with her now). I was on my own until I met DP.

From what you've said, he's not abusive, he's not a horrible person, you're just a couple who have young children with you doing the drudgery home bit and him supporting the whole family financially. It's a bloody hard few years having young children (and then you get a couple of years respite before the teenage hell kicks in ), and I'm not surprised you're both in a rut and bored with each other.

Does that mean you should uproot everything you've both worked for and presumably wanted? Discard the promises you made when you got married? Subject your DH and your DCs to a life of limited contact where they all live their lives without seeing each other on a daily basis? If I were you I'd give my marriage a bloody good try before you destroy your family unit.

I'm sorry if that sounds harsh; I'm not trying to be, and I'm not throwing stones from a glass house. I had an unplanned pregnancy with a man I hadn't known long, was a single mother on benefits for a while and really struggled emotionally with it all. DD (she's 9) has a great relationship with my DP and is very close to her dad. But she still wishes very very much that she could see more of her dad, and her ultimate fantasy is that we could all live together (we'd need a veeeeeeeery big house for that to work ). xDP feels like he's missing so much of the day to day pleasure of being with her and seeing all the little things. Please don't deprive your DCs of living with their father without giving it a lot of thought first. There's must be good reasons why you married each other - try to rekindle those first.

TillyScoutsmum, It's absolutely not fair if your DH is spending most of his free time on his own hobby, and being a bit shit about looking after the DCs. You need to talk to him about this because him just going out and earning the money is not enough.

If he won't address the problem, then I think you might be justified in leaving him.

I wish I knew about this site about 2 years ago. Everything proudnscary says is true!!

Thanks all. Plenty to think about ....

Tbh, I think if you're not completely sure then you should both make an effort to try and make things work.

Relationships get stale. Couples have bad patches. You can't agree on everything because you're different people.

If you had no children my answer would be the same. But for your children, and for your piece of mind to know that you tried, I think you should maybe go to relate or just make time for each other and try and freshen up things.

I have been there. I've been married for 12 years, I love my h so much, but there's been times I could have walked away. Then you come out of the rough patch a stronger couple.

Whatever you decide to do, good luck.

< waves back>
I hope you are okay...

NonAstemia - wow you and really do have a lot in common

Agree with everything you said - it's considered very unmumsnetty (in fact is actively sneered at and ridiculed by some) to advocate staying together for the children and honouring your wedding vows.

As always my disclaimer is no-one should stay in a deeply unhappy or abusive marriage - I hope that is a given.

I'd agree with the others.

Why are conversations boring?

Do you ever make plans together or share what you are doing on your laptops?

Maybe you just need to get some common interests that exci you both?

I should not post at all because I am not married and have two DCs on my own so absolutely no experience.

But. Life with two small children (mine are exactly the same age) is relentless drudgery, whatever your home situation. It is mind-numbingly boring at times. And exhausting. The only thing that gets me through is working full time. I'm not advocating that for you I'm just saying that being a SAHM makes it harder to avoid the drudgery and boredom.

I think you need to reassess your expectations a bit and recognise that some of what makes your life bleugh right now is just the hard work of small DCs Your life is boring and hard work. I don't think that's avoidable at this stage.

What I think is avoidable is the taking each other for granted. As Proundnscary said, I think you both need to put the computers down and put as much effort into your lives together as you do into other areas of your life. I would not be happy for my partner to spend time on a hobby and no time on us. Presumably if you had a problem with your relationship with one of the DCs you'd be fighting for it. Perhaps it's time to do that now with DH.

I am in no way old school on this but don't throw away a marriage because you're a bit bored. We're all bored - that's in the Terms and Conditions of early motherhood. But I think you should at least try to fight for something better with DH.

I think boredom is a marriage killer if it is not addressed for sure, as is the sitting on the laptops. Maybe you need to take the bull by the horns and spice your life up for both your sakes.
Make more of an effort with sex, talking etc your husband may well respond likewise - talk about it - dont waste what is otherwise a pretty good relationship because it has gotten a bit stale.
Young kids, well kids in general are hard work. Its a fact of life that the excitement dwindles when just getting through the day with everyone fed and clean is a small triumph!
Organise a date night, at home if you have no sitter - put candles on the table have some vino and get your groove on! Watch a film or even play scrabble anything that will make you interact.
If it doesnt work or he wont try then fine walk away, but at least you can walk away knowing you did your best by yourself, your husband and your children

Good luck - have fun!

You sound like you are describing the relationship between me and xh. We had no children but we disagreed about parenting even when we were TTC and its awful to look back on now but I thought it won't matter when the babies were teenagers and theres no chance we'd be together by then! I even found myself checking his phone hoping for him to have sent inappropriate messages even though I knew he wouldn't do that.

I was 22 so naive (even though I thought I wasn't at the time), I thought it was better to be in a comfortable relationship than none at all or a volatile one. We probably had sex quite regularly but only because I felt I should.

Me and DH now probably don't do it that often as we both work lots and have young DCs so are tired but but we want to do it more and when we do we are passionate etc and really want to and I would prefer it like that.

I think because you have children any sort of counselling is worth it, I didn't bother as we had left it too late really and had nothing keeping us together.

I do truly believe you should never settle for average or adequate, everyone deserves more than that