His lies, my fault, how to move on?

[malheureux]

Less than a year ago, my dp became friends with a woman through a mutual hobby. Despite the fact he has other female friends, my initial feeling was one of unease, I can't explain why I felt this as I never have felt like this before or since. She very quickly became a huge part of our life together, in the fact he was always talking about her, texting her, planning things with her and spending every evening talking to her online. We had a few rows about this and the next time he went out with another friend she went too, but, he decided to keep it secret from me, I knew, but, gave him the opportunity to tell me, but, he didn't until I confronted him and he said he had done it to spare my feelings and avoid another row.

From that point, I became suspicious and to my shame I started constantly checking up on him, looking at his computer history, text messages and call history. The things I found, I felt were flirty and crossed the line, especially as this woman is married too. Cue another few months of almost constant rowing, increased aggression and my suspicions spiralling out of control, he was unwilling to listen to my feelings and dismissed them and I became an emotional wreck.

A few months back, I reached a point where I issued him an ultimatum, it was either me or his friendship, sometimes I can't quite believe I said that, but, I felt like my sanity was at stake. I'm not a controlling person, i'm not demanding of his time, love, money, affection and he's always had as much freedom as is possible with having children, but, I felt at breaking point. After another aggressive row, he agreed to end the friendship. I spent my time after that trying to become the perfect person for him and trying to win his trust back, he became more hostile and angry, I could ask him a simple question and he would scream in my face and walk out on me, life became hell and all the while I had a nagging doubt that something was going on as lots of little things didn't add up.

8 weeks later I discovered he had never ended the friendship, he just kept it secret, they had designated times to call and text each other everyday (this is when he stopped contacting me in the daytime) which were deleted afterwards, when he went out, he went out with her and told me he was going somewhere different. Their friendship only ended when at some point her husband became suspicious as she lied about where she was, my dp willingly ended it to save their marriage, but, wouldn't do it to save our own and this is the bit I can't quite get my head round. I've since met her and she said she didn't think my dp would have told me anytime soon about their friendship if I hadn't have found out.

I don't know how to get passed this, the fact he never once considered my feelings, that he would lie to my face, that i'm now left scared to talk to him because of the way he's been with me and that he let me believe I was going insane rather than tell me the truth, which I think is cruel. I know i've brought a lot of this on myself and I am to blame for forcing him into lying to me. I'm not (despite how this may read) a horrible person and some of the things I have done have been so out of character for me. I really want our relationship to work, but, I don't know how to make it work or get it back on track.

Sorry this is so long :(

oh poor you! you don't sound a horrible person AT ALL, please don't think that's how your post comes across.

From what you've said - the fact that they were texting and calling every day - and especially the fact that she kept it secret from her OH too - really sends alarm bells ringing. You just don't act that way in a normal platonic friendship, I'm sorry.

It was appalling of him to make you feel as if you were the one being unreasonable when, it turns out, you were acting on instincts that sound as if they were pretty spot on

the tone of your post really gives the impression that you blame yourself, which is awful because it means his ploy has worked.

I agree that he should have ended it for your sake not hers and I can imagine how that must hurt

poor you. no advice but unmumsnetty ((hugs)) and I hope you are able to see whose fault this situation really is.

"I know i've brought a lot of this on myself and I am to blame for forcing him into lying to me"

No, the fault lies with him and you acted on intuition that something was badly wrong so checked up on him. He chose to conduct an emotional affair with another woman. Unsurprisingly this escalated and it only ended when her own H became suspicious of her actions. Their emotional attachment to each other would certainly have continued if her H had not found out.

Shirley Glass's book Not Just Friends may well help you as will other posters.

He does not sound at all remorseful for what he has done. You write you want this relationship to work but you cannot carry a relationship on its own.
Would you want to talk to a relationship counsellor about what has happened to you?.

This man who cheated on you is not worthy of you honestly.

OP, nothing you say you did seems out of the ordinary or "bad" to me so STOP blaming yourself.

Your husband got angry and defensive because he was totally out of order and tried to turn it around on you.

It seems like he's just not emotionally involved in your relationship at all, he checked out a while ago. I know you want it to work but it won't sweetheart is he doesn't want it too.

not "is" if ..

He has behaved appallingly. I don't think you have anything to be ashamed of re: checking up on him. After all, it was with good reason, as you've since had confirmed. He crossed way over the line of what's acceptable - although that would be in a different place for different people, but I'm not sure many people would be OK about what he was doing. It sounds at the very least like an emotional affair (almost as painful for many as a physical one), but you might have to consider the possibility that it became physical.

I'm so sorry that he's still hostile about it. That proves how much emotional energy he put into it. What you would hope is that when he saw your reaction he was horrified and stepped right back, and show you that as his wife you aremore important than anything or anybody else.

This is NOT your fault, he chose to behave the way that he did. At the very least it sounds like an emotional affair. He should be making it up to you, not the other way around. Unless he can accept responsibility for his own actions rather than behaving like a coward and blaming you for his mistakes then it will be virtually impossible for either of you to move on past this. Hopefully talking here will help you work on your perspective and self esteem and then you can start to work on what to do in your marriage.

This is very sad. Sorry you are having to deal with this.

Your husband has behaved very inappropriately with this friendship - even if it was never actually sexually consummated. It was definitely not appropriate for him to develop such a close intimate relationship with another woman, especially bearing in mind the OW was flirting etc.

Then, he told you many lies about it, and lied about what he was doing etc.

You do not need to blame yourself OP. No wonder, you were suspicious, and resorted to checking up on him - you had good reason to.

The problem is where to go from here. I think you need to do a lot of honest talking to each other to get this relationship back on track. A few sessions at Relate may help a lot with this one.

Thank you all so much for your replies, i really do appreciate it and just typing it all out has made me feel so much better as at the moment i do feel very lost and confused. Thank you also for not thinking i'm a horrible person, as i do wonder about that sometimes.

re: me blaming myself, i just think if i'd been 'cool' with his friendship like i am now about his other friendships, he wouldn't have made the decisions that he did as i in effect backed him into a corner. I worry i led him and her into forming a 'she/he doesn't understand me' club because of the way i was.

I have asked him about us going to relate or him seeing someone about his anger, but, he doesn't believe in things like that. He is also not very good about talking about his feelings, but, i know he was able to do this with his friend.

I really don't think it ever turned sexual (but, that's not to say it wouldn't have done with the passing of time), i think she was looking for someone to help with her own problems and he liked the attention. It does feel like he had an affair and i do feel betrayed.

I think you are right OP - chances are very likely it would have turned sexual in the passing of time - but if they have truly ended the friendship, there is still a hope for your relationship to get back on track, with a lot of talking, a lot of honesty, and a lot of effort.

No, you did not back him into a corner - he made a series of very bad decisions, which has now put your marriage in jeopardy.

But now is the time for you both to look forward, and work out where to go from here.

I'm not surprised you feel betrayed - I think anyone would.

Unfortunately their friendship is now very much back on, her h said they could be friends again as long as it was all open and honest. My dp jumped at the chance, this is how i ended up talking to her as i told him i needed to meet her for closure. I spoke to her for hours and i do think she wants her own marriage to work, but, there is still a nagging doubt as to my dp's intentions.

Her h might have "allowed" it but don't you have a say in this?!
I don't normally have an issue with couples having platonic friendships outside the marriage, but this woman is NOT a friend to your marriage. Your h has created a hole in the wall of your relationship. He needs to commit to help repairing it.

Nothing to add except weight to the FACT that this is NOT your fault .

Your husband is being cruel and dismissive of you.
So what is this woman's husband is happy for them to be friends.
YOU are NOT happy for them to be friends, and therefore he should end all contact with her - because you are his wife!

The fact that you have not felt threatened by any other of his female friends is very telling. Your instincts are telling you that there is danger here - their 'friendship' is inappropriate, and it needs to end.

YOU are the person he should be confiding in, socialising with, texting and emailing.

The fact that he promised to cool it with her, but was then communicating secretly is a massive betrayal of you, and very disrespectful.

Just because they have not had sex does not make it ok.

Trust yourself, trust your instincts, and please, please articulate to your husband that this friendship is jeopardising your marriage.

This website may help:

www.shirleyglass.com/quizfriendship.php

I think your instincts are probably spot on.

Your husband sounds like an absolute pig

he had an affair with this woman, and placed her "needs" but mostly his own ego-trip above those of yours

I don't believe it didn't turn sexual, you are naive to be swayed like that. Even by a tiniest sliver of a chance it didn't, the pair of them trashed the trust in your marriage. Mostly the big I-am that is your husband though.

I would never forgive such awful treatment, and I am totally unsurprised to see that you are struggling to keep a lid on your denial. You telling yourself all this is even partly your fault is pure and simple denial about how much of a tat the man you had the misfotune to marry actually is

the cruelty he has shown you is shocking, and I am very sad to see you are attempting to compete with OW and become a Stepford Wife too frightened to rock the boat. This is a miserable way to live, and if I were you I would call a halt to the whole fucking sorry mess and get out with at least some of your self-respect still intact.

for tat read twat but that should be clear from the rest of my rant about the arsehole that pretends to love you

OP, I'm really sorry about what you're going through. It sounds like a horrible situation to be in. Emotional affairs can hurt just as much as physical affairs, especially when you detail the lengths they went to to stay friends (only speaking at a certain time of day etc). And don't feel you are abnormal for feeling this way-clearly the other woman's husband also felt there was something inappropriate that he made her stop contact. Hope the situation improves. Hugs to you x

I think you should contact the OW's husband, OP. He may be able to help you join some of the dots. Your husband never will.

Anyfucker "
I don't believe it didn't turn sexual, you are naive to be swayed like that. Even by a tiniest sliver of a chance it didn't, the pair of them trashed the trust in your marriage. Mostly the big I-am that is your husband though."

I actually think it is irrelevant whether it has been sexual or not - i would rather my DP have a one night stand with some slapper (which i am 100% sure he woudlnt) than an emotional affair like this, the fact that he felt so strongly about this woman that they kept it secret. Im sorry but this woudl be a deal breaker for me (

Not to mention the fact that he's putting her and his relationship with her ahead of you.
I cannot believe that he's jumping up and down with glee that he can still see her because her husband has said it's OK. WHAT ABOUT YOU, HIS WIFE?

His lies are not your fault.

You didn't force him to do anything. He lied because he priortises this friendship above your marriage.

The fact that you are not usually threatened by friendships with women but felt that this one was not right says a lot about you - you're not controlling or jealous. You're just perceptive.

I think the only way to move on is without him.

Their continued "friendship" after the trouble they have caused for both marriages is a fucking joke TBH.

Your DP has betrayed your trust in the past, and frankly relationships can't exist without trust. He has restarted this friendship and I have no doubt he is waiting for this woman to say the word and they will at some point either start an affair or end both their relationships.

You've done everything you can to salvage a bad situation, yet you are back at square one. Your instinct is telling you the truth. I know you have children to consider, but he has clearly demonstrated where his loyalties now lie. So sorry, but you are just going to have to face the awful truth that he will not change and that its over. You being willing to work things out and him being selfish and blind to your needs is the death knell to a relationship. Get out while you are young enough to start again.

I'm speaking from experience of not getting out when I should have because of children. The unhappiness you feel now is nothing to what you'll feel when your P shatters your confidence and independence even further.

You trusted your instincts, your instincts were right.
I wish I had listened to mine more closely. My H's reasoning of his new found friendship was that she was just a friend. I believed him, I trusted him 100%, he was a good man, a good father, a good husband. It overtook our marriage and I sleepwalked into hell believing his lies. The texting took precedence over everything we did, My childs first sportsday where he missed him win his race as he had to answer the text..(obviously away from me incase I saw anything), our family holiday, special nights out. The list goes on. She told me when I 'laughingly' asked her what she had that I didn't that he was wonderfully supportive and a great listener, that I was lucky to have someone like him and how she wished her H was like that. They feeded each others ego's and it's (I imagine) intoxicating. They believed the lies they told each other. I often wonder if I had read the signs sooner, listened to my inner screaming that something wasn't right, could I have prevented it turning into something physical. This friendship went on for approximately 9 months before it turned into an affair. It was only then that the signs became too obvious for me to ignore. My H was a selfish liar. They had both put this friendship above their marriages, the time that should of been spent investing in their marraiges was spent investing in their fantasy.
Your H is lying, he knows he's lying and it's for his own agenda. He hoping you put up and shut up so he can carry on with this "friendship" to see where it leads. He knows where he wants it go too.. otherwise he would imho be listening to you and hearing your hurt.
I say well done you for spotting the red flags and trusting your gut. Where you go from here I dont know....

ItsMe, there is nothing you could have done....they would still have done what they did

I really feel for your OP. It's like you're in the middle of a nightmare and you can't wake up, you just have to see the horrible thing through to it's conclusion. Except you don't - you can take back control. His behaviour towards you has been appalling, but he has undermined you to such an extent that you feel responsible for this - he has successfully made you feel that it's something lacking in you that has caused this.

IT ISN'T YOUR FAULT. All the blame and responsibility for this affair, whether emotional or physical or both, is HIS.

Take control. You know that you cannot move on from this. If you put up with this, you will become a shadow of your former self; he will then justify his awful behaviour because you are no longer the person he fell in love with...so he will heap all the blame on you, and because he has destroyed your sense of self, you will enable him to justify his sordid little affair.

Dig deep and muster up all your strength and tell him to go. You have to take control and follow your gut - this isn't your fault, it's his.

He can only continue to shit on you, if you let him. Trust me, I've been where you are - and you will get through the other side, but not if you continue to live with someone who thinks that lying and blaming you is acceptable.