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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

What can I do about my unhelpful husband?

97 replies

vcw · 27/11/2003 14:21

I have two boys (6mths and 21mths)whom I look after full-time. I was happy to give up my career to bring them up. However, since becoming a housewife my husband has made no attempt to help with anything domestic (not that he did much before).

My husband leaves for work at 7.30am and if I am lucky he is back by 8pm, but two to three days per week he is out until the early hours marketing. He irons his own shirts and will look after the kids for 2-3hrs at the weekend. He won't get up in the night because he says he will be too tired for work the next day. I have tried to ask him to help more on several occasions and he says he will try harder. Nothing has happened.

He has complained that I don't respect him and that I don't appreciate how hard he has to work. He says that his job requires him to put in long hours. We can't afford much help and neither of our families are willing to assist regularly.

I did go back to work part-time when my eldest was 7mths but my husband considered that my choice and therefore my responsibility to sort out childcare and housework etc on top. He considers his career more important than mine because he earns more money.

As we have two boys I think it is particularly important for my husband to be actively involved in bringing them up. I do not think he is setting them a very good example. Often when he looks after them he just watches sport on TV and falls asleep on the sofa.

I am at the end of my tether and don't know what to do. My husband thinks that women want it all these days and that is not possible. Surely it is not too much to ask for a bit of support and have the ability to work part-time so that you can watch your kids grow up?

OP posts:
motherinferior · 27/11/2003 15:50

Thank you sobernow...I've sneaked back to this post with my sense of inferiority quite enhanced, actually.

I still think that he's not doing enough. OK, so other people wouldn't be unhappy with it, but I think you're justified in feeling that way.

Incidentally I get paid more than my dp - and on four days not his five - but I don't consider that makes my career more important than his. Neither does he. And yes, of course each of us thinks we do more about the house.

motherinferior · 27/11/2003 15:53

I think also we are all conflating childcare with other domestic work (ahem, the thread on what housework a nanny's supposed to do might just be relevant here). They are not the same IMO.

lailag · 27/11/2003 16:09

ok blu, what suggestions for vcw? I can only tell what we do. In my situation I feel that on the days dh is working and I am at home, I should do all home/childwork. When I am at work and dh is at home (evening)I do not bother with cooking etc for them. In the weekends, if none of us are working, we try to combine things like we all go out for shopping and the park.
I do all the "night things" but very occasionally when both dd and ds need attention I just let them cry, eventually dh will crawl out of bed...

aloha · 27/11/2003 16:47

Same here, motherinferior, I earn more but work fewer days. I don't think either of has 'priority'. I couldn't live like that. Also couldn't bear a husband who though that looking after his own child was doing me a favour. It's not my job he's 'helping' me with. it's his job too! I think being a reluctant SAHM is awful. Look for a job and if you get one, then take the next step which is to jointly fund childcare and get a more equitable split on household duties.

aloha · 27/11/2003 16:49

And no, IMO it is certainly not unreasonable to want support and the ability to work part time. It's what I have. If my husband told me 'women want it all these days' I would think he had been abducted by aliens and replaced by someone from 1950! (I don't want to insult your husband who doubtless has many fine qualities but he does sound like he's living in another era to me).

aloha · 27/11/2003 16:50

I presume he wanted children too, and when he met you, you were working? I think it is OUTRAGEOUS when people confuse money with power in a relationship.

fio2 · 27/11/2003 17:08

It depends if you have traditional roles but your dh takes equal responsibility when at home its different. If he does nothing then maybe you do need to talk to him. There is nothing stopping him from doing his fair share of a weekend anyway.

SenoraPostrophe · 27/11/2003 17:11

Aloha is right.

Stressyhead (replying a bit late now, I know) I'm not getting my knickers in a twist, I was (clumsily) responding to your statement that "If I didn't work, I would expect to do more in the way of domestic chores" by pointing out that being a SAHM is not the same as "not working"

However I think Blu has pointed out something very pertinent, that both vcw and her dh are doing too much.

lailag · 27/11/2003 17:14

I also think that one job should not be superior to another regardless what it is paid (and that includes home and child work!!! Anyway, when I suggest to dh to swap work he quickly chickens out; I could do his work but he could not do my work at home 7/24....)
I do think that if you want to work part-time you should do so, he might realise he will have to do some more at home...

Janstar · 27/11/2003 17:17

Sorry, very short on time and have not had time to read all this thread. Just want to say that it sounds as if both of you are under tremendous pressure, and when it gets like this partners don't have the energy left over to be sympathetic to one another.

Perhaps you, like me, don't particularly enjoy the day-to-day business of caring for small children. Not everyone does, it doesn't make you selfish or uncaring. It doesn't mean you don't love your children either. All it means is that you are stuck in a day job you don't enjoy, and being in that position can be very wearing.

Even if you do enjoy it your children are at an age where they will wear you out anyway. I feel sorry for both you and your dh, it sounds like both of you are worn out with no time for each other or yourselves.

A radical change in lifestyle is nearly always not an option, so you need to think of strategies to get you through the next 2 - 3 years until your children reach an age where they are not as much work. Do you have family and friends who can give you a break? Would your budget stretch to a childminder a couple of mornings a week? You need time just to do something you enjoy, without interruption. My local sports centres have creches - you could go there and swim or do yoga, in peace. I once lived near a library which had a creche so I used to deposit my toddler and sit and write stories or read a book for an hour or two.

It would be good, too, if you could get a babysitter and get some quality time with your dh, even if just once or twice a month. It's really easy to forget what got you together in the first place when you are going through this.

Lastly, as others have said, your children will not always be little. Soon they will be able to do so much more for theirselves. Hang in there.

Good luck, I hope things get better for you, I really feel for you with this situation.

vcw · 27/11/2003 18:55

Thanks for the advice. I do think we are both under a lot of pressure. We definitely need to try to spend more time together.

I just get enraged with his old fashioned views. He is furious that our 21mth old plays with a vacuum cleaner. He doesn't think a boy should do these things as it is not very manly! Before we had kids he never said anything like this.

OP posts:
scoobysnax · 27/11/2003 19:13

Any chance you could get some paid help - babysitter or cleaner/ ironing lady?
Everyone needs some back up IMO, and paying for it is one way of getting it!

vcw · 27/11/2003 19:16

We can't really afford it but I think it might be worth getting into a bit of debt to pay a babysitter just to stay sane!

OP posts:
vcw · 27/11/2003 19:36

I just want to point out that when I say my dh is out two or three nights a week marketing this involves taking clients to a pub and getting very drunk. He also plays footie with his friends once a week and is often away for the weekend at various parties.

On the up side, he does make the effort to come back on time when I do make plans to go out. Unfortunately he won't do this if I just want to spend the evening with him. I suppose this is due to the pressures of work.

Still, I must stop moaning as I have two beautiful healthy boys and a loving husband.

OP posts:
Beetroot · 27/11/2003 19:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

morocco · 27/11/2003 20:09

sympathies vcw and to answer your original question, no I don't think it's too much to ask for a bit of support and the ability to work part-time.
my guess is that life is currently very comfortable for your dh and he doesn't see why it should have to change. I'd be very cross indeed if I were you - in fact I'd be so cross I'd be pointing out exactly how much money he'd have to pay me in child maintenance if I were to kick him out of the house and how it wouldn't change my life very much at all as I'd be doing less cleaning, cooking etc. Obviously this is not necessarily the best way forward in your case. what is it you would like him to do more of? the housework or the childcare or both? with 2 young kids, how about letting the housework go altogether (and I guess you don't have to cook his meals if he's out all the time)and then get your own social life in full swing for when he gets home in the evening - he could have a nice relax in front of the telly while you're out partying with your friends. It might make him want to join you and think more about spending time as a couple rather than expecting you to always be at home.
Could it also be a huge shock to the system being a stay at home mum if you are used to being at work? I dread the day in a way - I plan to give up my job after maternity leave for a while but I know it will have a huge effect on my relationship with dh as I have always paid my way and felt that bringing in the same wage gave me equality in the relationship (eg I could go and buy what I wanted with my own salary). dh can be quite controlling with money for example and I know that will cause problems when I'm spending 'his' money.
As an aside and not necessarily about your dh, I've seen plenty of working fathers spending all hours at work and their put-upon wives believing them to be dedicated hard working types when actually they spend most of their time surfing the net (horror!), going to the pub with mates, socialising in the office etc. So I for one would be deeply cynical of the 'too tired after work' line.
Anyhow, I send you all my sympathies and hope you get to sort things out with your dh soon in whatever way best suits you.

morocco · 27/11/2003 20:20

sorry vcw I pressed 'post ' not preview. I'm sure you're too knackered to go out partying with a 6 month old at home to look after (durrr! honestly, you'd think I didn't have kids!)but I meant to change that to 'organise your social life' in a more general way - get out, meet other mums, get a hobby at the weekends when dh is around to do the babysitting - in fact, why not make him do it all day on one of his days off? He'd get to spend quality time with them which I'm sure he'd appreciate too as it doesn't sound like he gets to spend much time with them right now.

Clarinet60 · 28/11/2003 10:36

I'm with vcw, sobernow, www et al. I work part time so see both sides.
My work days are a doddle compared to my 'childcare' days. sobernow's post said it all, really. Unless you're the sort of person who likes being horizontal most of the day (on the floor playing) and watching teletubbies while trying to do housework while placating a toddler, while cooking a meal, you are mad to think that being a SAHM is the easy option.

Your DH is out of order, vcw. There have been a few threads with tentative solutions to this problem, but I think letting him walk a mile in your shoes would be best. Let him have the children for the whole day one Saturday, and make sure he cooks and cleans too, rather than just watching TV. I don't think he realises how hard it is.

Clarinet60 · 28/11/2003 10:39

I don't know how you're fixed financially, but if he's not prepared to do his share in the house, could you get a cleaner?
Another suggestion would be to buy those packs of ready cut veg from supermarkets that are so expensive. But if it leaves you short financially in other ways, that could backfire.

Clarinet60 · 28/11/2003 10:42

Sorry, just read through and noticed that this has been suggested and you can't afford it.
The hours he works must be financially rewarding at some point in the future, though. TBH, I've been in this position and therre are some things I wish I'd done differently. TBH, I wish I'd just taken out a huge loan and paid for cleaning/childcare - it would have made me less resentful. OTOH, DH now realises how hard it is because he now helps out much more and works less. But it has taken some nasty rows for us to reach this point.
Please don't feel downcast by some of the posts on here, vcw. You are in an unenviable position, and IMO, right to complain.

linzoid · 28/11/2003 11:10

I am a sahm apart from a few hours of cleaning peoples houses that i do during the week. My children are now both at school but when they were at home the way i saw it was that when dp was at work i did everything but the times he was at home i.e weekends, then everything should be shared. Why should his job finish for the weekend but i still have to slave away?? no way!
I would cook tea and wash up, he would bath the kids and put them to bed as this would be the only part of the day he could spend wih them. I would do all the housework at weekend but he would do the diy, drive the car and entertain the kids(doesn't sound much now i come to think of it) I could also go off for a couple of hours if wanted whereas he was constantly in demand from the kids.

Clarinet60 · 28/11/2003 12:18

linzoid's solution is great. You both work the same hours, then when he comes home, you share. Just make sure, vcw, that you don't slave away so hard that there's nothing left to do after 8pm! (very unlikely, if your house is anything like ours.)

Clarinet60 · 28/11/2003 12:33

Forgive me if someone else has said this, but it's not good for your boys to see your DH being waited on hand and foot all the time.

It's not good for the morale of the marriage if one person does all the cooking, night after night, for years on end (I still do this - final nut to crack). It makes you feel like some kind of cafe.

Also, the only reason he is able to work those hours, and receive a salary and kudos, is because you are at home looking after the children. A nanny would take a huge chunk of his salary.

Clarinet60 · 28/11/2003 12:43

I also get paid more than my Dh on the days I work, but when we both come home on those days, the extra earnings don't make me feel I have the right to sit down and let him do more.

WideWebWitch · 28/11/2003 14:30

Well, vcw, I just started reading through this book, Wifework by Susan Maushart to see if I could find some statistics for you but then it occurred to me that actually, you don't need them! We all know that women, whether they work outside the home or are SAHMs, do the bulk of the domestic drudgery and childcare in most marriages. My view is that this is blatantly unfair. I really dislike the idea that SAHPs have a lovely easy life and that it isn't 'work' somehow in the way that other jobs are. I also dislike the phrase "doesn't work/not working" being used to describe SAHPS since being a SAHP is work! I can't believe that anyone thinks otherwise actually. Here are just a few of the tasks a SAHP might carry out:

  • Shopping for food and other essentials (with child/ren in tow)
  • Cooking/preparing at least 3 meals a day
  • Cleaning the house
  • Keeping children alive, happy, entertained (the first being particularly important)
  • Washing, ironing (if you do it)

Now, I don't know about you, but I wouldn't do ANY of that for fun, except playing with children, which can sometimes be fun. Although The Wheels on The Bloody Bus can piss you off a bit the 100th time.

Bringing up children is vital and important work and can be difficult. Agreed, it is poorly paid, low status work because (possibly) it is work mainly carried out by women but men have been getting away with the kind of behaviour vcw describes for far too long IMO. And in some ways, who can blame them? If I had a willing slave at home who took the view that what I did outside the house in an office for 60 hours a week was more important than what s/he did at home 168 hours a week (including on call hours if your partner Doesn't Do Nights) and therefore let me sit on my arse the minute I got in maybe I'd let him/her get on with it too! (I'd like to think I wouldn't though and that my sense of fairness would win over)

Add to this the fact that many men have been brought up by women who didn't ask anything of them domestically and you?ve got gross domestic inequality. Because their mothers thought their men were very important they didn't expect them to do any washing, cooking or cleaning and did it for them. They expected that wives would later take over where they left off and as a result some men even believe they are incapable of looking after themselves! Many of us have/had fathers with these views and swore we wouldn't marry the same kind of men.

Vcw, following on from his comment about your not respecting him, I would respectfully suggest that he doesn't respect YOU and doesn't appreciate how hard YOU work bringing up the children who are your joint responsibility.

I also disagree strongly with Northerner when she says "as mums we have no choice but to get on with it" - we do have a choice! We can say NO, I will not put up with this, I did not agree to this, they are your children too. Women collude and perpetuate this vile inequality every time we let men get away with this behaviour IMO. And I'm NOT saying it's women's fault, just that we have to do something towards stopping it if we don't like it. If you like it, that's a different matter of course.

I have done both (SAHM and working outside the home) and I do think, for me, working outside the home was easier. But this is because I've always had a partner who's pulled his weight and we've paid for help to do the work we don?t want to do i.e cleaning. I also really liked being able to go to the loo on my own

I think in a lot of cases like this the answer is to let these men look after their own children on their own for a week (or preferably two) so they see first hand how exhausting, time consuming and thankless it can be. While you're at it, in situations like yours vcw, I'd take away access to money and bank accounts so they can fully appreciate the lack of power and status that goes with the job they're expecting a SAHM to do.

One last point - I keep meaning to quantify, financially, a SAHP's contribution to his/her family. I will post it when I've done it (if I ever get around to it) but it occurs to me that what she (and it is usually she) provides is:

  • 24 hour, 365 cover for a family's children, awake and asleep. So the £ value should be calculated as on-call night cover for half of that.
  • A 24/7 nanny service. Anyone who actually WAS a nanny would work only 8-6pm ish however and would expect to take (paid) holiday several times a year. When she was taking this holiday she wouldn?t expect to be responsible for her employer's children. She also wouldn?t expect to have to wash, cook and clean in the same way as usual.
  • A cleaning service. Many of you say you can't afford a cleaner but the work outside the home father can if his SAH wife does it! And she usually does the washing! And the shopping! And the ironing! Blimey, actually she's a housekeeper/concierge service! Actually, come to think of it, sex is provided in there too (tongue in my cheek at this point...)

My calculations will also factor in loss of earnings. Vcw, you gave up your full time job when you agreed to stay at home with the children, so factor that in too. So far my loss of earnings from being a SAHM are well into six figures. This is pure salary loss, so doesn?t include the fact that I?d have to take a reduced salary on returning, loss of company pension and other benefits etc etc etc. So actually, double that, it's almost certainly going to be over £1m by the time I've finished. For other people it'll be more.

OK, I'll shut the f* up now and hope I haven't offended anyone. All IMO of course and vcw, feel free to ignore me. Sorry if this post isn't very constructive but it's just my view and I don't particularly expect people to agree with me.

If you've made it this far, Sobernow wrote an amusing account of her day as a SAHM here Right, I'm off for a lie down...

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